64 replies to this topic

[mekabuser]

http://mwomercs.com/...83#entry1591483

I dont understand the reasoning behind this.
Ive used the ac10 since day one Ive played the game. I was one of those unhappy folks when they took my centurian away because it had a lovely ac10 in the arm.
I have used the ppc and erppc, just because. I didnt care I wasnt doing didly for damage. A game without ppc's flying around just isnt mechwarrior to me.
Contrary to what many say, Ive enjoyed, as much as you can, the trial awesome this time around, Just for the ppc/
I havent bothered to look up the values, but there is one I can comment on without reservation.

2000m/s for the ppc? say what? come again ? que?

In what version of mechwarrior was the ppc anywhere near that velocity?
Where is the skill involved now in using the high damage iconic weapon of mechwarrior?

Just a guess here, but I dont think the ppc goes very much faster than 1200m /s now and its not terribly difficult to hit your target, at least , what you are being told is your target.

Do you not see the giant can of ppc spam right around the corner if this is implemented?
Its not as if it does NO damage, even now. Lower heat on ppc, emp, and 2000m/s and what do you think you have?
The black screen bug best have been figured out by then because NO one will be able to see out their cockpit window.

Ac 5 and ten are both right where they need to be speed wise. I have no idea why this, of all things are being looked at.

Actually , I do have an idea, but it could easily be based on incorrect assumptions and xfiles logic.
Wanna hear it?

THe speeds are being upped to mask the net/hit/lag/ issues.
Less travel time means less time for target x to traverse "X" meters also giving target x less time to warp , lag, whatever.
I mean we have documented hit detection issues with lazers and stationary targets.
A buffed damage,emp ppc release that no one hits anything with would create quite a fuss me thinks.
IDK, all i know is that imo all the speeds as is are just fine.. Leading targets with those weapons is what makes them fun to use. Its one of the skill hooks that many guys find so appealing about the MW series.

Heres hoping that ppc speed isnt currently 1800m/s

[Alfred VonGunn]

The problem is that the PPC should be the 2nd fastest weapon going down range in the game.. After Lasers.. And not very much after.. It is NOT a projectile in the sense that the Gauss Rifle or ACs are.. it is a Energy weapon. It is bad enough it has the delay on firing. It also still seems to have hit box/damage done issues..(but That might be just the over all netcode issues)..

[Dakkath]

I think the ordinance velocity speeds are definitely needed. When was the last time you fired a gun and saw the bullet? You typically don't ever.

And in previous versions of MW, the PPC has always been different in each. It's my understanding by reading info on Sarna and BT books that the PPC moves like a "bolt of lightning", so to speak. I am looking forward to the speed changes, it will definitely make the weapons more 'realistic' imo.

[Wingbreaker]

The speed of lightning is highly variable, but the average is about 5 million meters per second. So, no, the PPC should be the second fastest weapon in the game by far (nearly hitscan).

[RedDragon]

Didn't have MW3 (at least near) insta-hit PPCs? We'll have to see how PPCs feel with the new speeds before judging. After all they should be one of the most feared weapons on the battlefield.

[Elkarlo]

The PPC should never have been the Nice slow Glowing Balls out of the MW2 Area.
It's a Particle Beam Weapon, this means ION's are accelrated by strong Magnetics traveling at a speed around 1/2 c or more.
This Opens a Plasma Channel through which the Energy from the Anode discharges...

To say it easily... the Electricity would be the think we see and the secondary effect, the ultrahot Plasmarized Ions hitting the Mech would be the Main impact of Damage. On a real Particle Projector Cannon.


To say it simple: Imagine a Railgun only that you remove the 100kg bullet and putt in a 5gramm Bullet and you transfer nearly the same Energy with it. So the speed needs to be 2000 times of the Gaus Cannon. The principles are the same: Mass is accelerated and the Energy hits MECH. Only that the Mass in a PPC is much smaller.

(In a Novel it is even discribed that they needed an extra "Mass" Modification for Vacuum fighting at the PPC's of a Mech, so that the PPC has something to accerlate)

[Funkin Disher]

My reasoning would be to make sure every shot counts. But seeing as the heat and damage is also being looked at, that dosent quite make sense.

Looking forward to the PPC buff tho.

[Redshift2k5]

Easier to increase projectile speed than it is to fix the netcode (server-authoritative round trip packets add firing lag; increasing speed makes them more accurate overall without actully fixing the ballistic lag issue)

[Leetskeet]

Because they ****ing suck

/thread

Edited by Leetskeet, 12 December 2012 - 03:45 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Bullets and bolts of lightning... Both pretty fast imo.

[ReD3y3]

BC PPCs are trash.

Faster projectile speeds is going to be a great buff and how it should of been from day 1.

[mekabuser]

yep, lightning is fast.
ok, in mw4 and mwll and the present version of mwo ,ppc speed is about..... equal.

Seems about right to me since its a high damage weapon with soon to come heat nerfs, and an emp bonus..
To up it to near insta hit do you not see the ppc spam coming?>

Also., just what is wrong with ac5 and ten speeds? They are both easy to use.. THey both should require at least a smidgen of lead and skill to use.. As it is there isnt even bullet drop..
What is the point of this aspect of the buff?

We can all agree both the ac5 and 10 do their job.


Why is this happening?

[Tickdoff Tank]

I think this is the first time I have seen *anyone* that was not thrilled with the upcoming buff.

[SteelPaladin]

No we really can't agree that the AC5 and 10 do their job. Let's look at a history of ballistic use in MWO:

Initially, pretty much the only ballistic worth using was the gauss rifle. The lousy projectile speed, firing lag, and wonky convergence made every other ballistic weapon utterly useless.

The UAC/5 got added w/double tap and no jams and was widely used, then jams got added and it withered away again except for those macroing the unjam.

Then AC/2s got a big projectile speed boost and people suddenly started using them and are still using them (despite the knock reduction).

Then the UAC/5 got a better unjam mechanic, and I still see them used constantly in my battles.

Somewhere in there, DHS got added so the stupid heat of AC/20s was mitigated just enough to make them halfway passable in pairs on SplatCats, but they're rarely used seriously anywhere else.

ACs needed buffs because they have been the red-headed stepchild of MWO weapons forever. They've slowly been making them suck less, and now a few of them are actually seeing wide use. This will help continue that process.

[Corvus Antaka]

Currently ppc/ac Takes a little skill, but it falls inline with good gameplay. I'm crossing my fingers doubling these flight times wont make these weapons nearly instant hit...because then lasers will be even less useful than they are now.

Add in a potential buff to heat on PPC/Lasers, (which again seem fine to me) and the game just seems to continue going in the wrong direction.

But then, I like to save my bitching for after the patches. If anyting itll help my aim, so that'd be a good thing, but I personally am afraid it will simply easymode ppc/ballistics more, and make coring even easier than it already is.

[SpiralRazor]

mekabuser, on 12 December 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...83#entry1591483

I dont understand the reasoning behind this.
Ive used the ac10 since day one Ive played the game. I was one of those unhappy folks when they took my centurian away because it had a lovely ac10 in the arm.
I have used the ppc and erppc, just because. I didnt care I wasnt doing didly for damage. A game without ppc's flying around just isnt mechwarrior to me.
Contrary to what many say, Ive enjoyed, as much as you can, the trial awesome this time around, Just for the ppc/
I havent bothered to look up the values, but there is one I can comment on without reservation.

2000m/s for the ppc? say what? come again ? que?

In what version of mechwarrior was the ppc anywhere near that velocity?
Where is the skill involved now in using the high damage iconic weapon of mechwarrior?

Just a guess here, but I dont think the ppc goes very much faster than 1200m /s now and its not terribly difficult to hit your target, at least , what you are being told is your target.

Do you not see the giant can of ppc spam right around the corner if this is implemented?
Its not as if it does NO damage, even now. Lower heat on ppc, emp, and 2000m/s and what do you think you have?
The black screen bug best have been figured out by then because NO one will be able to see out their cockpit window.

Ac 5 and ten are both right where they need to be speed wise. I have no idea why this, of all things are being looked at.

Actually , I do have an idea, but it could easily be based on incorrect assumptions and xfiles logic.
Wanna hear it?

THe speeds are being upped to mask the net/hit/lag/ issues.
Less travel time means less time for target x to traverse "X" meters also giving target x less time to warp , lag, whatever.
I mean we have documented hit detection issues with lazers and stationary targets.
A buffed damage,emp ppc release that no one hits anything with would create quite a fuss me thinks.
IDK, all i know is that imo all the speeds as is are just fine.. Leading targets with those weapons is what makes them fun to use. Its one of the skill hooks that many guys find so appealing about the MW series.

Heres hoping that ppc speed isnt currently 1800m/s

You do realize that even 2000 is not fast enough for weapon that should be hitscan right?? 2000 is simply a bandaid.

And AC rounds travel way to slow....projectiles should be barely visible.

Read some books, the ones by Stackpole are pretty good,.

[SpiralRazor]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 12 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Currently ppc/ac Takes a little skill, but it falls inline with good gameplay. I'm crossing my fingers doubling these flight times wont make these weapons nearly instant hit...because then lasers will be even less useful than they are now.

Add in a potential buff to heat on PPC/Lasers, (which again seem fine to me) and the game just seems to continue going in the wrong direction.

But then, I like to save my bitching for after the patches. If anyting itll help my aim, so that'd be a good thing, but I personally am afraid it will simply easymode ppc/ballistics more, and make coring even easier than it already is.

Lasers less useful then they are now...


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....breath.....


Sorry sir, but ...yeah... there is a reason that only the fast firing and fast moving ACs are used right now..
Care to guess why that may be?

Edited by SpiralRazor, 12 December 2012 - 04:29 PM.

[SteelPaladin]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 12 December 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

Currently ppc/ac Takes a little skill, but it falls inline with good gameplay. I'm crossing my fingers doubling these flight times wont make these weapons nearly instant hit...because then lasers will be even less useful than they are now.

Add in a potential buff to heat on PPC/Lasers, (which again seem fine to me) and the game just seems to continue going in the wrong direction.

But then, I like to save my bitching for after the patches. If anyting itll help my aim, so that'd be a good thing, but I personally am afraid it will simply easymode ppc/ballistics more, and make coring even easier than it already is.

AC/5s are going up to 1300m/s and they have an optimum range of 540m, so they'll still take a little over 0.4s to reach their target at optimum. That's enough to require some leading if the target is moving at a decent pace, particularly if you're actually targeting a section of the mech instead of just going for an "anywhere" hit. UAC/5s bump that to almost 0.5s (since they have a longer optimum).

PPCs... I'm really sketchy about the fact that you consider them close enough to lasers in effectiveness to lump them together like that. I'm even more sketchy about the fact that you think lasers aren't very useful now (the medium laser is the single most efficient weapon in MWO and has been forever, even more so than it is in TT). That said, a standard PPC will take a little over a quarter second to hit a target at optimum range (0.27s to be exact), so they'll hit pretty quick but still might miss the spot you're targeting if you don't lead a little.

Edited by SteelPaladin, 12 December 2012 - 04:32 PM.

[Kousagi]

Dakkath, on 12 December 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

I think the ordinance velocity speeds are definitely needed. When was the last time you fired a gun and saw the bullet? You typically don't ever.

And in previous versions of MW, the PPC has always been different in each. It's my understanding by reading info on Sarna and BT books that the PPC moves like a "bolt of lightning", so to speak. I am looking forward to the speed changes, it will definitely make the weapons more 'realistic' imo.

Fire tracer rounds in them normal guns, you will 100% see the bullet. Which most games have you fire every round as a tracer. Where as real military don't use tracers too much, unless its big guns, or something they don't really care about giving away a position to.

Back on track, yes these buffs will be awesome. Its nice to see the PPC might be easier to use. Lets hope it gets more buffs so it can be viable.

[Dakkath]

Kousagi, on 12 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Fire tracer rounds in them normal guns, you will 100% see the bullet. Which most games have you fire every round as a tracer. Where as real military don't use tracers too much, unless its big guns, or something they don't really care about giving away a position to.

Back on track, yes these buffs will be awesome. Its nice to see the PPC might be easier to use. Lets hope it gets more buffs so it can be viable.

Yeah it's definitely open for interpretation on that aspect considering in table top it was 1 shot, 5 damage for the AC5. etc. So you'd think it be just one round.

However, if you really think about an Auto-Cannon, it would fire multiple rounds, and most likely contain tracers, and you'd hit multiple body locations as you fire (kinda like an A10 warthog cannon?)

but then that goes away from table-top rules, and defeats the purpose of the big guns AC/20.

Either way, I agree that you can see stuff w/tracers, but I didnt think AC's in MWO had them... needless to say I think the speed buffs are warranted.

Edited by Dakkath, 12 December 2012 - 04:41 PM.