223 replies to this topic

[GalaxyBluestar]

Vassa, on 12 December 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

There won't be a launch if there are only 20 people playing the game. If they are at the point of charging CASH for items they should be well past the point of arbitrarily changing the game rules and have the 'BASIC CODE" done already.

yeah that's the sort of thing that makes me cynical seeing this game for next christmas

[Vassa]

Beta - See the rest of this thread. Really. Its not a hard word to understand. Really.

It is a very overused word. A word used as a crutch, an excuse, a get out of failure free card.

Edited by Vassa, 12 December 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[Grendel Toot]

This thread should be renamed "Lets be honest about the state of the community"

[Gaeb]

Vassa, on 12 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Beta - See the rest of this thread. Really. Its not a hard word to understand. Really.

It is a very overused word. A word used as a crutch, an excuse, a get out failure free card.

*and* a word officially defined in many respectable dictionaries!
http://www.merriam-w...dictionary/beta

[Vassa]

Grendel Toot, on 12 December 2012 - 07:46 PM, said:

This thread should be renamed "Lets be honest about the state of the community"

I see a lot of people feeling like they are being taking by a long con...

[Gaeb]

Vassa, on 12 December 2012 - 07:47 PM, said:

I see a lot of people feeling like they are being taking by a long con...

I would hazard most of these people are used to paying for a finished product, rather than a kickstarter-esque development.

It's similar to the stock market. Don't gamble money you can't afford to lose. Except in this case, its to support an idea you think is worthwhile. Will it pay back? That's a complex equation of your fun to time invested to money spent. But never for a second, ever, think you have control over it. You're not a large enough investor.

Edited by Gaeb, 12 December 2012 - 07:49 PM.

[Lanessar]

Gaeb, on 12 December 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH only 1500? Yes, I've been in larger beta rage threads.

But in answer to your earlier q
1) Pricing - see 12/18 economic changes (who knows what will happen, but myself, you and plenty others have complained about price points)
2) Beta - See the rest of this thread. Really. Its not a hard word to understand. Really.

Give it time. This game is pretty darn young in its development cycle.

Hmm. Can't see that post. Care to link it?

I understand beta. I work in a professional software environment. Beta is warped for gaming, quite warped, in meaning. Our company takes more revenue in a week than PGI has since release. I've overseen the beta on three major components to our product. It's web based, real time, and deals with more data than is handled by PGIs servers by at least a hundredfold.

And trust me, the companies I deal with (Toyota Motor Services, Suzuki, VW/Audi and Subaru) are far, far less forgiving on errors than the users on this forum.

[Reginald Rawlins]

You know what would absolutely fascinate me? Somehow, having a forum poll that people can't lie to.

What is your level of experience with computer gaming?

• I just play games.
  
• I just play games, but have a longstanding experience and know how games evolve over time.
  
• I play games and actually know how programming works.
  
• I have worked on game projects for my own amusement before.
  
• I have worked on independent, for-profit game projects before.
  
• I have worked on a major title before, and have years of experience in the industry.

I don't mean to belittle valid complaints, as we have a right as customers to give feedback, but feedback is worthless if expectations aren't grounded in reality and constructive. People really need to think about what they're asking and why they're asking it.

[Gaeb]

Lanessar, on 12 December 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

Hmm. Can't see that post. Care to link it?

Well if I could drum up the complaint threads about SP and other OP mechanics in WoW beta I would, but suffice to say it had a larger population of whiners.

Quote

I understand beta. I work in a professional software environment. Beta is warped for gaming, quite warped, in meaning. Our company takes more revenue in a week than PGI has since release. I've overseen the beta on three major components to our product. It's web based, real time, and deals with more data than is handled by PGIs servers by at least a hundredfold.

And trust me, the companies I deal with (Toyota Motor Services, Suzuki, VW/Audi and Subaru) are far, far less forgiving on errors than the users on this forum.

I don't see where you're going with this. The product is in beta. You can pay money if you want to. You're not required to. It will be released when it's released. I don't know the investor situation, but if they're without some leading investor group pushing returns and a timeline, then unlike your situation they really have no pressure to arbitrarily announce release ahead of schedule. BTW - props to being in a space where your customers screw your timelines over - how does it feel to rush out unfinished products? ... or if I misunderstand your toyota quote, why are you arguing the definition of the word 'Beta'?

[Vassa]

Quite the literalist aren't ya, Gaeb?. Well did you know 'beta' used to mean the #2? Yep, and then its meaning changed.

Much like PGI has changed the current meaning of 'beta' to mean scam as much money out of the 'Battletech' property as long as possible before everyone gives it up in frustration and goes away.

Edited by Vassa, 12 December 2012 - 07:56 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

as much as there is a lot of this let the game go down the plug hole it's still in beta argument, you really can't nail pgi or mwo for anything until it's gone live etc. only then will the haters be welcome to completely sledge this game or they keep putting off the live release date to hold onto the beta crutch. as it stands now although the rep and cred of pgi devs are falling apart the battle may be done but the war aint over yet.

hmmm... SNAKE! IT'S NOT OVER YET!

[Lycan]

El Death Smurf, on 12 December 2012 - 07:29 PM, said:

lets be clear here "Beta" is the second leter in the Greek alphabet. FACT. after that, if you want to argue about how anyone else wants to use or missuse the word feel free to beat that horse.

Okay so you know what it means . . .

Quote

The Game Dev's already gave their definition of what they considered Beat of this game, and they communicated that well. anyones inability to interpret the given explination of the state of this game is clearly looking of a blade sharpener, becaus they have an ax to grind. (see this whole nine page, and counting, post)

The point people are trying to make is that it doesn't matter what the definition the developers have given for their game. The developers can communicate, post blue "beta" signs all over the webpage and the in-game UI and it doesn't frakin matter.

The only thing that does is the perceptions/views of the people that are downloading and installing the game.

And frankly, that's the only thing really saving the game as it is. The fact that it is free to download and give a try. Free-to-play games are a revolving door of revenue/players for developers and games because there will always be people to take the place of those that leave.

Sadly, that's why these games can continue on in the state/shape their in because there's always someone new willing to pony up some money to give it a shot. And even if they don't like it, they've already paid something into the till and the developers don't have to care if their game sucks or not. Why? Because there's a new player just on the other end of that broadband connection.

Quote

I spent my $60, and i was explicitly told in a clear post by the Devs that they moved into what they call "open Beta" and that i can expect bugs and unfinished work for a while. I am enjoying the game, more and more every patch.

Good for you. I'm glad you enjoy the game.

And I'm sure that everything the developers told you to expect will be in the game. Eventually.
And it's the "eventually" that's the problem. Nobody, well no one rational, expects X, Y and Z to not only be rolled out immediately but to also have no bugs/issues associated with it.

What they do expect is those items to be brought about in a timely manner and not constantly pushed back. And even when those items/features do show up, they're so bug ridden that they might as well held off on them anyway.

The people that post their complaints/issues are doing so because every time they've been brought up the problems have been shouted down by the "It's beta" crowd. And, if that keeps happening, nothing is going to get changed and/or fixed because, well "It's beta" and their still making money so why bother fixing anything?

Quote

meanwhile, at the Justice League...

The rest of the League isn't needed as Superman is able to do everything they can . . and do it even better.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Reginald Rawlins, on 12 December 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

You know what would absolutely fascinate me? Somehow, having a forum poll that people can't lie to.

What is your level of experience with computer gaming?

• I just play games.
  
• I just play games, but have a longstanding experience and know how games evolve over time.
  
• I play games and actually know how programming works.
  
• I have worked on game projects for my own amusement before.
  
• I have worked on independent, for-profit game projects before.
  
• I have worked on a major title before, and have years of experience in the industry.

I don't mean to belittle valid complaints, as we have a right as customers to give feedback, but feedback is worthless if expectations aren't grounded in reality and constructive. People really need to think about what they're asking and why they're asking it.

START IT NOW! i'm outta here!

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 12 December 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Gaeb]

Vassa, on 12 December 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Quite the literalist aren't ya, Gaeb?

Well, I like to think that communication is based upon mutual understandings of the definitions of words.

Quote

Well did you know 'beta' used to mean the #2? Yep, and then its meaning changed.

Did you see how I linked a dictionary?

Quote

Much like PGI has changed the current meaning of 'beta' to mean 'scam as much money out of the 'Battletech' property.

Here's where we go from objective to subjective. It's all right, I get it, you also suffer from diablo pantalones en fuego. I have a cure: Take a few months off, come back, have fun.

Edited by Gaeb, 12 December 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[Lanessar]

Gaeb, on 12 December 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Well if I could drum up the complaint threads about SP and other OP mechanics in WoW beta I would, but suffice to say it had a larger population of whiners.

Quote

1) Pricing - see 12/18 economic changes (who knows what will happen, but myself, you and plenty others have complained about price points)

So... never got an answer to this. I didn't ask about WOW. I asked where this post was, as I've been scouring dev posts and haven't seen a response.

[Reginald Rawlins]

GalaxyBluestar, on 12 December 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

START IT NOW!

Well, the problem is that, this being the Internet, people would lie and the informative nature of such a poll would be useless. For example, imagine the vote distribution if there was a seventh option that said, "I am currently in an intimate relationship with a supermodel."

Of course, this being the Internet, I could also say "screw it" and start the poll anyway. It's going up.

[Gaeb]

Lanessar, on 12 December 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

So... never got an answer to this. I didn't ask about WOW. I asked where this post was, as I've been scouring dev posts and haven't seen a response.

Oh for this game? I wasn't even in closed beta. Didn't know it existed till early Q4, too late for Founders. I thought you were talking about legendary 60K post rage threads - would love to link, but they're deleted/no longer accessible.

[Vassa]

Here's where we go from objective to subjective. It's all right, I get it, you also suffer from diablo pantalones en fuego. I have a cure: Take a few months off, come back, have fun.

I want my money back!

[mekabuser]

Vulix, on 12 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Just take a break and come back in a month or two when the game is more developed

Vulix, on 12 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Just take a break and come back in a month or two when the game is more developed

Vulix, on 12 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Just take a break and come back in a month or two when the game is more developed

Ive seen that same quote the last several months.

[Gaeb]

Vassa, on 12 December 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

I want my money back!

Totally valid concern, unfortunately - see my earlier quote.

Gaeb, on 12 December 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

I would hazard most of these people are used to paying for a finished product, rather than a kickstarter-esque development.

It's similar to the stock market. Don't gamble money you can't afford to lose. Except in this case, its to support an idea you think is worthwhile. Will it pay back? That's a complex equation of your fun to time invested to money spent. But never for a second, ever, think you have control over it. You're not a large enough investor.