223 replies to this topic

[mekabuser]

lol. yeah, u can go on and on gaeb about "what is beta blah blah blah" that doesnt mean anything. What matters is the state of the game..
For many of us , its not pretty.
It hasnt been pretty for a while.
The numbers of players,, thats the great secret, hey, if theyre up from closed beta, well then great.. but i suspect they are down.
So yeah, you can argue, and be witty and say whatever you want about "development" etc.
None of that matters.
It still doesnt change the fact that the playerbase is frustrated with x,y, and z.
It is extremely fortunate for PGI that many here are rabid fans and will stick with the game, if not now, in the future.

The problem is, based on what we have seen, the future looks bleak.

[Lanessar]

Gaeb, on 12 December 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

Oh for this game? I wasn't even in closed beta. Didn't know it existed till early Q4, too late for Founders. I thought you were talking about legendary 60K post rage threads - would love to link, but they're deleted/no longer accessible.

I was referring to the 12/18 economic post you spoke of. Never mind. I'll locate it without your help (should it exist).

And I was in closed beta. The only thing even close to this we got in Closed beta was when the devs did a major update, totally messed over gameplay (we're talking 30% of players couldn't load up the game) and then announced open beta was a week or two away.

As far as after this, I really don't care. There are many, many well thought out threads - most get many responses from testers, and the OP in one got more likes than many developer command chair posts. Yet no response from the developers.

My point was not the noise. That happens. I've dealt with it. I'm talking about the lack of response to major issues, well-thought out, and the only developer poster sayign anything of real value being Brian Ekman (who actually asks questions, and gets to the bottom of things). Niko's pretty good as well, but he doesn't really answer beta testers so much as corral them.

Regardless, you (again, as on another thread) missed the point. I likened my position to that of one of the devs here. If I didn't address the non-chicken little posts (emails or calls in my case), I'd likely get fired. This company will be fired too, if it doesn't change it's interface policies.

The only problem I have with posters like Gaeb is that they preach submission, quietness, "everything will be fine", when in fact, nothing gets addressed without major squawking in this game. I hate it. I work i nthe field professionally, and despise squawking (when it happens) there, too.

But to not say anything when you see a ship heading for the rocks... that's bad. I'm not talking about the time it takes to recode netcode (it takes a while, and if you look through my past postings, I do defend the devs on this a few times), but on lack of feedback to direct tester issues.

That is what's going to kill the game.

Edited by Lanessar, 12 December 2012 - 08:29 PM.

[Vassa]

I would hazard most of these people are used to paying for a finished product, rather than a kickstarter-esque development.

It's similar to the stock market. Don't gamble money you can't afford to lose. Except in this case, its to support an idea you think is worthwhile. Will it pay back? That's a complex equation of your fun to time invested to money spent. But never for a second, ever, think you have control over it. You're not a large enough investor.



I didn't put money into a 'Kickstarter project' I went to a website that offered items for sale that could be only purchase with "MC". "MC" that was ONLY usable for items in the game.

I could obtain "MC" by paying cash. It was a sale not an investment opportunity!!!

Do you see the difference?

[Dark Severance]

Vassa, on 12 December 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Quite the literalist aren't ya, Gaeb?. Well did you know 'beta' used to mean the #2? Yep, and then its meaning changed.

Much like PGI has changed the current meaning of 'beta' to mean scam as much money out of the 'Battletech' property as long as possible before everyone gives it up in frustration and goes away.

Hmmmm Hawken is in Open Beta, taking money as well. It has 4 types of match making, currently none of which find any matches or takes me at least 15 minutes to find 1 match. I can launch and find a match anytime in MWO.

I'm pretty sure F2P market knows what beta is. It is just that most people don't play F2P or Asian MMO in a beta environment to understand it. They are used to the what they believe are industry standards, which came way after F2P started. They started using "beta" as a marketing move to get people to "try a finished product and get hooked" not actually test it. Thus creating a warped reality in the game world of a what a beta is.

[Dark Severance]

Vassa, on 12 December 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

I didn't put money into a 'Kickstarter project' I went to a website that offered items for sale that could be only purchase with "MC". "MC" that was ONLY usable for items in the game.

I could obtain "MC" by paying cash. It was a sale not an investment opportunity!!!

Do you see the difference?

Items that do not effect gameplay and are cosmetic. And/or mechs which can be purchased without spending any money. Sure you can say Hero mechs which offer cash bonus, but that would then fall into the investment category as it only helps you play for the long haul. They don't actually make you better players, give you better items or somehow get you something that you can't obtain for free, but may take a bit longer.

[Lanessar]

Dark Severance, on 12 December 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:

Hmmmm Hawken is in Open Beta, taking money as well. It has 4 types of match making, currently none of which find any matches or takes me at least 15 minutes to find 1 match. I can launch and find a match anytime in MWO.

I'm pretty sure F2P market knows what beta is. It is just that most people don't play F2P or Asian MMO in a beta environment to understand it. They are used to the what they believe are industry standards, which came way after F2P started. They started using "beta" as a marketing move to get people to "try a finished product and get hooked" not actually test it. Thus creating a warped reality in the game world of a what a beta is.

Don't forget a better cash shop and more maps, as well as a new player intro.

[Dark Severance]

Lanessar, on 12 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

Don't forget a better cash shop and more maps, as well as a new player intro.

Already commented on that here.

[Gaeb]

Was washing up before bed (8AM mtg =/) but last comments otw out:

Lanessar, on 12 December 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

The only problem I have with posters like Gaeb is that they preach submission, quietness, "everything will be fine", when in fact, nothing gets addressed without major squawking in this game. I hate it. I work i nthe field professionally, and despise squawking (when it happens) there, too.

But to not say anything when you see a ship heading for the rocks... that's bad. I'm not talking about the time it takes to recode netcode (it takes a while, and if you look through my past postings, I do defend the devs on this a few times), but on lack of feedback to direct tester issues.

That is what's going to kill the game.

I am hardly preaching submission. (Unless certain Canadians need that calming influence, if so, whatever maples your leaf).

Basically, I'm saying don't go ballistic or wax hysterical over stupid crap as if you're the only person in the world who could conceive of such a notion. There's an entire dev forum with roughly their next 3 months planned out in moderate detail. That's pretty transparent. Does it solve everything? No. Matchmaking is a key miss. Many features are only at a vague state (UI, Economy, New Player Experience).

Will this be a good game? I don't know, ask me in about 9 months.
Will I keep supporting it? Sure. I'm actually pretty impressed with their work with the models and engine so far, given that its not been in development *that* long.
Should you complain? No. Honestly, your complaints do no freakin' good other than amuse the hell out of sods like me.
Should you provide constructive feedback? Absolutely. There are whole threads for it created by the devs. Not in the general forum.

In short (here's my charming personality coming out), the pure idiocy of this thread has been an absolute schadenfreude joy tonight, but I'd recommend everyone grow up, read up, and figure out how to either be constructive, be patient, or accept a lost investment of money and hope. That's life, people.

Nite!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gaeb, on 12 December 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

The state of the game is beta - they're still adding basic components. Good lord, take a 6 month break.

good argument... its beta if you dont like it leave. Great plan bud

[Lanessar]

Gaeb, on 12 December 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

I am hardly preaching submission. (Unless certain Canadians need that calming influence, if so, whatever maples your leaf).

But you are, by not selecting your poster targets. Look through my posts. Not a single one is hysterical, I just say "they should answer topics with a lot of feeback from testers, or it's not beta". This is correct by any definition of "beta test" where you have end-users. I even recommend not answering any of the "frack off PGI" threads. Yet you jumped all over my post. Because I dared suggest that, if they don't address valid feedback, then they are not beta testing the product.

Quote

Basically, I'm saying don't go ballistic or wax hysterical over stupid crap as if you're the only person in the world who could conceive of such a notion. There's an entire dev forum with roughly their next 3 months planned out in moderate detail. That's pretty transparent. Does it solve everything? No. Matchmaking is a key miss. Many features are only at a vague state (UI, Economy, New Player Experience).

This is where most of the end-user questions lie. They need to address this, or even answer well-thought out posts which contain good ideas (rare, but they are easily found via forum admin tools).

Quote

Will this be a good game? I don't know, ask me in about 9 months.
Will I keep supporting it? Sure. I'm actually pretty impressed with their work with the models and engine so far, given that its not been in development *that* long.
Should you complain? No. Honestly, your complaints do no freakin' good other than amuse the hell out of sods like me.
Should you provide constructive feedback? Absolutely. There are whole threads for it created by the devs. Not in the general forum.

See the first paragraph above. Doesn't appear you want to hear that PGI needs to change tactics to keep this going as a beta. Actions speak pretty loudly.

Quote

In short (here's my charming personality coming out), the pure idiocy of this thread has been an absolute schadenfreude joy tonight, but I'd recommend everyone grow up, read up, and figure out how to either be constructive, be patient, or accept a lost investment of money and hope. That's life, people.

Then address the OP. Don't attack my stance of "devs need to answer intelligent feedback threads or it's not a beta". My stance is actually validated by exactly what you want to accomplish.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

GalaxyBluestar, on 12 December 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

as much as there is a lot of this let the game go down the plug hole it's still in beta argument, you really can't nail pgi or mwo for anything until it's gone live etc. only then will the haters be welcome to completely sledge this game or they keep putting off the live release date to hold onto the beta crutch. as it stands now although the rep and cred of pgi devs are falling apart the battle may be done but the war aint over yet.

hmmm... SNAKE! IT'S NOT OVER YET!

Honestly I dont see a reason for them to ever make this game live as they lose their number one criticism shield and theyre already making money

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

mekabuser, on 12 December 2012 - 08:01 PM, said:

Ive seen that same quote the last several months.

So the best thing to do according to those people is for people to leave... self defeating to anyone else?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Lanessar, on 12 December 2012 - 08:57 PM, said:

But you are, by not selecting your poster targets. Look through my posts. Not a single one is hysterical, I just say "they should answer topics with a lot of feeback from testers, or it's not beta". This is correct by any definition of "beta test" where you have end-users. I even recommend not answering any of the "frack off PGI" threads. Yet you jumped all over my post. Because I dared suggest that, if they don't address valid feedback, then they are not beta testing the product.

I kinda think this happened when they told us true dhs breaks the game and never gave us the chance to "test" that

[anonymous175]

Can't wait until the first 'Merkan decides we should start up a "Class Action Lawsuit".

Then we've hit the big time.

[Lanessar]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 12 December 2012 - 09:04 PM, said:

I kinda think this happened when they told us true dhs breaks the game and never gave us the chance to "test" that

Don't get me started on the three second Jenner thing. That was a response to a post I made. Then comes the Cicada example. All this tells me is that ML are overpowered. The rest of the weapons work fine under DHS. Unless the devs can come up with a build not involving ML that is overpowered under 2.0 DHS, then frack, fix ML, don't break PPCs, ER LL, Assault mechs, etc.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Lanessar, on 12 December 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

Don't get me started on the three second Jenner thing. That was a response to a post I made. Then comes the Cicada example. All this tells me is that ML are overpowered. The rest of the weapons work fine under DHS. Unless the devs can come up with a build not involving ML that is overpowered under 2.0 DHS, then frack, fix ML, don't break PPCs, ER LL, Assault mechs, etc.

what 3 second jenner thing Im talking about "you dont need to test this, it breaks the game, trust us" *jedi hand waving*

[Vassa]

Quote

I'm pretty sure F2P market knows what beta is. It is just that most people don't play F2P or Asian MMO in a beta environment to understand it. They are used to the what they believe are industry standards, which came way after F2P started.

So what I'm hearing is the Free to play market is a scam worldwide? God what sucker I've been.

[Postumus]

This forum is crazy. In the past 3 months I've been involved in 4 different closed betas for games, all of them, including this one, have problems of a similar seriousness/nature, but people get so insanely worked up about this game in a way that they don't for any of the others. I think part of the issue is that this game has used a different business model. They are not a large developer, and don't have large budget, and so they have moved to "open beta" and taking peoples money to ensure funding while still in a pretty rough state. This isn't a bad thing necessarily, but people keep comparing this game to world of tanks, or planetside, which are both being developed by companies with much more experience, staff and resources. Regardless of whether this game is accepting cash for gold right now, it really is still beta, and when I say beta I don't mean the kind of "beta" where a game has multiple years of development and testing and tens of millions invested in it and 80% of the release features.

And please don't say something like "well you shouldn't have accepted money, it gave people false expectations", I'd rather pay my 60 bucks now and actually get a good game in 6 months or a year when it is released than have the devs not take it and be underfunded or bankrupt.

Edited by Postumus, 12 December 2012 - 09:30 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Postumus, on 12 December 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

This forum is crazy. In the past 3 months I've been involved in 4 different closed betas for games, all of them, including this one, have problems of a similar seriousness/nature, but people get so insanely worked up about this game in a way that they don't for any of the others. I think part of the issue is that this game has used a different business model. They are not a large developer, and don't have large budget, and so they have moved to "open beta" and taking peoples money to ensure funding while still in a pretty rough state. This isn't a bad thing necessarily, but people keep comparing this game to world of tanks, or planetside, which are both being developed by companies with much more experience, staff and resources. Regardless of whether this game is accepting cash for gold right now, it really is still beta, and when I say beta I don't mean the kind of "beta" where a game has multiple years of development and testing and tens of millions invested in it and 80% of the release features.

its the IP
you cant take a TT IP, and change it to make a game like this without flame wars of epic proportions and people freaking all over the place.
Imagine they made a MMO like this for Warhammer 40k

[Postumus]

http://en.wikipedia....Dark_Millennium

To be fair they got rid of the MMO part of it. Probably saw torches and pitchforks in the night.