46 replies to this topic

[Túatha Dé Danann]

focuspark, on 13 December 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Since the "circle size" is dependent on your speed, all you have to do is stop moving to accurately pin point your shots.

NEVER stop moving!

[Deadoon]

Alpha strikes are op? What are you even talking about... many mechs are designed around firing all weapons at once without penalty, heck the catapult k3, which has 2 erppc. and 2 med lasers is technically heat neutral on tt. The awesome 9m is nearly neutral, it just can't fire that final erppc and still stay cool. Half the mechs in this game, when you remove the fact they tripled the rate of fire are actually heat neutral while stationary, or able to fire all their weapons atleast once safely. Alpha strikes are not the issue, it is pinpoint damage this kind of armor system was not made for pin point aimed damage, since we actually can aim, they should of instead of doubling the armor quadrupled it or more.

[focuspark]

Deadoon, on 13 December 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Alpha strikes are op? What are you even talking about... many mechs are designed around firing all weapons at once without penalty, heck the catapult k3, which has 2 erppc. and 2 med lasers is technically heat neutral on tt. The awesome 9m is nearly neutral, it just can't fire that final erppc and still stay cool. Half the mechs in this game, when you remove the fact they tripled the rate of fire are actually heat neutral while stationary, or able to fire all their weapons atleast once safely. Alpha strikes are not the issue, it is pinpoint damage this kind of armor system was not made for pin point aimed damage, since we actually can aim, they should of instead of doubling the armor quadrupled it or more.

Hence my suggestions of adding a dash of randomness to the aiming if you or your target is moving.

[Krinkov]

focuspark, on 13 December 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

If you want to "nerf alpha strikes" just add more randomness to the damage location. Size medium lasers in one location hurts any mech but spread that out over 4-6 locations and it's 'meh' damage; especially for a heavy of assault class mech.

If you want the nerf to only impact light mechs, then make the level of randomness based on the attackers speed, the targets speed, and add in a slight penalty for lighter mechs bouncing more (or something).

I created a post dealing with changing the effectiveness of boated small/medium lasers. My idea basically adds difficulty in aiming light weapons at high speed.

http://mwomercs.com/...asers-accuracy/

[Artifex 28]

I see absolutely no reason for heat penalty. I've played roughly 350 rounds with Raven 3L alone. Before ECM, stacked streaks were real pain, but then again - so was my Raven vs anything with slow, sniper type weapons.

Now it seems that SRM stacking is becoming more and more common, I agree - but it's still gimped by the hard 270m range. True, Catapults can be pretty fast.

My other main mech is Awesome 9M which I run with XL380, as a speed brawler (SRM6, 2x SRM4, 2x med pulse, 2x medium lasers). I think the real fix would be lowering the SRM range to 200m for example. Or the spread of the missiles could increase "a lot" after 150m - or there could be a massive "white smoke trails" after the rockets. The more you fire them, the more you blind yourself. If the white puff stays there for a few seconds, it would effectively prevent you for seeing your target.

[MustrumRidcully]

Hotthedd, on 12 December 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

From what I gather reading many of the posts regarding the problems with boating weapons deemed OP, is that almost every weapon has been called OP at some point by somebody. The REAL problem, as I see it, is the massive alpha strike damage of these supposedly OP weapons.

It seems an effective solution would be to make the decision to alpha strike a difficult one. Perhaps a heat modifier for alpha striking with more than 2 weapons at once, cumulative, so that alpha-ing 6 medium lasers would result in almost certain shutdown, 4 SRM6s at once would double the heat generated, etc. It would resolve the issue of the "3-second jenner", LRM boat spamming, and the SRM cat. (Gausscats have their own issues now).

It would be a simple fix, instead of constantly nerfing/buffing weapons that really are not broken.

Any thoughts?

No. The problem of boating is not the boating itself, or the alpha striking, but it is that the weapon that is boated is overpowered. Easy example of how boating is not the problem - ever tried to boat PPCs or MGs?
Having one or two overpowered weapons in a mix with 2-6 other non-OP weapons is not as impressive as having your entire arensal consist of overpowered weapons.

Alpha Striking is also not necessarily the problem. The Streak Cats nastiest maneuver used to be to chain fire its Streaks, so your mech was continually shaking and smoking and you had little chance of tracking a jump jetting and highly mobile Streak Cat.

The boating problem is only a problem if the weapon is OP. Whether an alpha strike is OP or chain firing a weapon depends on the weapon's special properties, and finding penalties that apply in both cases would be hard.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 14 December 2012 - 02:50 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Bhael Fire, on 12 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

There's already a pretty hefty price for using Alpha Strike; ALL your weapons heat spike at once...not a favorable condition. A mechwarrior must already use judicious use of alpha striking because of this.

MW:O doesn't really punish the heat spikes strongly. YOu have a heat threshold/capacity of 30 + heat sinks. That's a lot of alphas before you suffer drawbacks. That's why chain firing as a measure of heat management is overrated. The only thing that helps you manage your heat is not to fire when a shot would overheat you.

In MW:O, if you went above your mech's ability to dissipate his heat, you would quickly suffer penalties - even the 1st alpha strike could cause you drawbacks. MW:O has it all simplified to the shutdown condition that was rarely ever reached in a table top game, simply because the penalties you would suffer for getting so far would make it pointless to continue firing your guns.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 14 December 2012 - 02:57 AM.