269 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Wow. This is a post I never thought I would make.

FIRSTLY I WOULD LIKE TO SAY I LOVE THIS GAME AND THINK PGI HAS DONE BETTER IN MOST REGARDS THAN THE QQ THREADS ON HERE ADMIT:

But I see the same names popping up over and over in matches, and the TS servers are looking like Ghost Towns. I have no issue with ECM, and I don't even run a make capable of using it, but it is apparent that ECM IS a huge issue for the masses. And I like the game and community more than I give a crap about ECM either way.

The fact is, that in reality, in use and implementation, ECM is not "Broken". Anymore than any any huge advance in Military Tech is. But what it does, is requires players to focus more on information warfare and counter-measures, than raw fighting, and it does make things considerably more difficult, requiring a whole new set of tactics, etc. It does make it hard (I like the challenge actually, and LOVE how the other side folds when I kill the ECM, and their "Cloak of Invulnerability" (in their mind) goes POOF)

And at the end of the day, the defections, seem to say "We are playing a video game, we don't want to have to deal with this extra layer dammit". Whether it's "laziness", lack of imagination, anger over having to change tactics, or simply a preference for more straight forward battling is irrelevant, because the people are speaking, they are speaking by their absence.

I honestly find the Matchmaker to be far more broken than ECM, for 4 man and 8 man, as the lack of any sort of weight balancer really lend toward Min/Maxed very specific, top heavy units, and a total lack of variety. And in 4 man, the inability to block teams from Sync Dropping, means that the guys who can't hack it at 8 man, are often times running 8 mans v PUGs, to re-inflate their egos. 4 mans can imbalance Puggly fights badly enough, 8 man is just ludicrous.

I don't see more than a dozen of our pilots anymore, and most of the prime time mafia is AFK. It's a sad state.



TL;DR-
- Whether ECM is broken or not will not matter, if players keep leaving at the rate they are: Please offline ECM on the upcoming patch until you can find a manner that IS "Acceptable" to the masses. And kindly add a Weight Balancer to 8 man ques/ Limit 4 man ques to one "Pre-Made" group per side.

Also, I am aware some will cry about the "limited options in the poll invalidates them". Pure BS by those looking to complain (And that only a small number of players actually bother voting, thing is, it seems we only HAVE a small number of players left). Sometimes adding too many shades of gray invalidates them by making no clear answer. It is pretty simple, there are yes/no questions in life, and the ones being asked, much like in a court of law are simple yes/no. You can always abstain.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 December 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Yes across the board. I wouldn't be quick to throw the ECM under the bus but that's exactly what it did to a lot of other things in the game.

[Cerlin]

Well ok so Ill gratify this with a response. I think ecm could be tweaked but I dont want to see it removed. 8 mans need some kind of balance or limiter. But I dont think 4 mans HAVE TO fight only four mans. However, if the probability was increased I wouldnt mind the challenge.

[ebea51]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 December 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

Wow. This is a post I never thought I would make.

Bet you did...

[EvilCow]

Good poll, all questions on spot.

[Bishop Steiner]

Cerlin, on 13 December 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

Well ok so Ill gratify this with a response. I think ecm could be tweaked but I dont want to see it removed. 8 mans need some kind of balance or limiter. But I dont think 4 mans HAVE TO fight only four mans. However, if the probability was increased I wouldnt mind the challenge.

I agree ECM needs to be tweaked, BUT, it is also apparent that ECM is one of the biggest things driving people away, In the post I said removed until it can be "fixed". Also, 8 man doesn't need ECM as a balancer ( imay have misread how you meant that, if so feel free to correct me). If neither side has it, then they are already balanced. 4 mans/PUGs need protection from Synch drops.

I would have added an "Add Solo Drop Que" if the poll maker allowed for more than 3 polls.

[Broceratops]

ecm is bad for people who cannot hit lights with other weapons and people who use lrms. so basically people with lock-on weapons. most former jenner pilots don't care because they're just running around in ravens now.

given this segment of the population (those who over-relied on lockon weapons) I say MEH. the only other group that should be really affected by ECMs are pugstompers who are over-rely on being able to focus fire on ABCDEFGH and to them I also say MEH.


1 premade per side is what they should have done to start with but at this point I think they're close enough with their end-all solution of ELO matchmaking that I really don't see any balance tweaks in the meantime.

Edited by Broceratops, 13 December 2012 - 08:08 AM.

[AlexWildeagle]

Leave ECM alone. It works just fine it's not the problem.

The problem is LRMs and SSRMs, no they are not overpowered, they were/are overused and people got used to relying too heavily on them.

[Bishop Steiner]

ebea51, on 13 December 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

Bet you did...

Bet i did? or did you mean BUT I did?

either way, actually you will find I am actually a big supporter of ECM in other polls and topics. I don't run it, and yet my W/L and K/Dr has in general improved since. But I realized that sadly, know matter how much myself or others posted how to defeat ecm, and use tactics over tech, people don't want to hear it. And so, instead of seeing the game crash and burn, I would rather see it removed until it can be nerfed into an "acceptable" format.

[Kdogg788]

ECM is a noob slayer and another reason I can call my friends little girls for not being able to handle the complexity of the game. It's a tough line to walk. Either cater to the top end gamers and know your target market is small, or go twitch style easy mode with a larger audience but be aware that they will be extremely fickle and will all split as soon as the newest Call of Duty drops.

-k

[Bishop Steiner]

Broceratops, on 13 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

ecm is bad for people who cannot hit lights with other weapons and people who use lrms. so basically people with lock-on weapons. most former jenner pilots don't care because they're just running around in ravens now.

given this segment of the population (those who over-relied on lockon weapons) I say MEH. the only other group that should be really affected by ECMs are pugstompers who are over-rely on being able to focus fire on ABCDEFGH and to them I also say MEH.

I want to agree with you. But if people keep leaving, and we stop picking up noobs, how long will the game last? I personally think the majority ECM haters are, in general, 1000 meter LRM spammers and Streak-A-Pult drivers, or guys new to the game finding their side getting rolled. It DOES introduce a high learning curve, and the tutorials are a bad joke for this game. And I feel no sympathy for Streak Lovers, because they take zero skill (And my TAG equipped ALRM Catapult is still very deadly, I just got to get a skosh closer and do my own dirty work).

That said... I want the game to survive, and I think the last patch pushed the community to the brink.

[Belorion]

I answered no for all three but I think I need to explain why on the last two. For the first ecm is fine and people will adjust. For the secon I think there should be some kind of balancer. Not neccissarily weigh. Total weight, total bv, total elo... combo of the above... For the last question: You are still going to have an imbalance, and may run out of single people on the queue. What abou 3 man groups etc etc. If teams are going to queue sync the way it is, they will still queue sync afterward.

[Nonsense]

You have absolutely no idea how many people are leaving and at what rate. You saying "I think the last patch pushed the community to the brink" makes no sense to me. You're basing your statement completely off your own experience as opposed to overall reality.

[Taryys]

ECM definitely needs to be tweaked a bit (and BAP nerfed less). Removing it from game will deny them the data that they need in order to evaluate the best way to deal with it.

1 4-man per pug sids? Ummm... yea... that should also have been done to start with. Synch Dropping into PUG matches is not good.

Weight Balancer for 8 mans. I am OK with that. I am expecting that the no limit thing now is a way for them to gather data on exactly what people would really do in a no holds barred situation, which is also exacerbated by ECM coming out at the same time.

Edited by Taryys, 13 December 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Nonsense, on 13 December 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

You have absolutely no idea how many people are leaving and at what rate. You saying "I think the last patch pushed the community to the brink" makes no sense to me. You're basing your statement completely off your own experience as opposed to overall reality.

really and you have figures that prove me wrong? If not, your reply is equally unsupported.

I play damn near ten hours a day. In 8 man and 4 man. I see and drop against the same names multiple times an hour. NEVER happened before. I have been on the EU and NA Comstar TS servers, and NG/NG, and all are graveyards compared to pre patch.

Sorry if my "experiences" added to the pure venom on this forum, isn't enough for you. Feel free to continue operating life with your cranium rectally inserted.

[Broceratops]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 December 2012 - 08:10 AM, said:

I want to agree with you. But if people keep leaving, and we stop picking up noobs, how long will the game last? I personally think the majority ECM haters are, in general, 1000 meter LRM spammers and Streak-A-Pult drivers, or guys new to the game finding their side getting rolled. It DOES introduce a high learning curve, and the tutorials are a bad joke for this game. And I feel no sympathy for Streak Lovers, because they take zero skill (And my TAG equipped ALRM Catapult is still very deadly, I just got to get a skosh closer and do my own dirty work).

That said... I want the game to survive, and I think the last patch pushed the community to the brink.

I think the people who are leaving are mostly either bored with lack of content or just totally alienated by the UI and the pugstomping they have to endure in ****** trial mechs. Compared to the number of people who are not playing because of ECM I would think this is the huge majority.

If ECM is actually driving people away then they should look at it (and I think overall they will look at it anyway because it does too much for 1.5 tons), but I just think mostly its QQing from people who really really bought into the lock-on playstyle and now have to use other weapons.

Non of the trial mechs are lock-on heavy *anyway* so its not like ECM is destroying noobs. The lack of matchmaking, UI, lobby, and ****** trial mechs are all way bigger noob killers than ECM.

And as for the population as a whole, the fact is there isnt enough content in this game for most casual players. This may change in time but the state of the game is only suitable for niche gamers who are willing to join clans, player their own leagues, create their own drama, etc.

The good thing is that every patch I do see a lot of people come back to check it out (I have a looooot of people on my friends list and they're all varying levels of hardcore to casual, free accounts and premmies, so I think its a decent indicator). So I don't think many people are quitting forever, its more like they'll come back if the game is ever good enough for them.

Edited by Broceratops, 13 December 2012 - 08:20 AM.

[Heeden]

Whether it is OP or people just need to adjust their tactics to balance ECM, the fact so many people are running around with it allows PGI to gather more data and identify bugs with the way it functions. Number tweaks can come later.

Also I voted "yes" for weight balance (despite being PuG-for-life yo!) but think it needs a different metric - maybe C-bill value would be a more accurate measure of a mech's effectiveness.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

AlexWildeagle, on 13 December 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Leave ECM alone. It works just fine it's not the problem.

The problem is LRMs and SSRMs, no they are not overpowered, they were/are overused and people got used to relying too heavily on them.

Streaks WERE overpowered, but they didn't need a butchery to bring them down a notch. Worse yet is that if you aren't being jammed, they're STILL overpowered. Instead of balancing the weapon itself and making the ECM not be such a single solitary huge factor, they made it OP, so now it revolves around ECM or no ECM. The ECM should do less to Streaks while they should have been nerfed on their own in some other way. So now it's either OP or unable to shoot at all. Neither should be the case... ECM should be a smaller piece of a bigger picture, not the entire picture like they made it.

Perhaps you're right about LRMs, but they too didn't need nor should have gotten a butchery in order to nerf them. Piranha is starting to turn into Blizzard, where they release crap that is either extremely OP or wreck things entirely instead of just tweaking a few numbers to bring them down some. The solution to an OP weapon isn't to gut it entirely, it's to... make it "not op" anymore...

Bishop Steiner, on 13 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

really and you have figures that prove me wrong? If not, your reply is equally unsupported.

I play damn near ten hours a day. In 8 man and 4 man. I see and drop against the same names multiple times an hour. NEVER happened before. I have been on the EU and NA Comstar TS servers, and NG/NG, and all are graveyards compared to pre patch.

Sorry if my "experiences" added to the pure venom on this forum, isn't enough for you. Feel free to continue operating life with your cranium rectally inserted.

Sounds like I'm not the only one that didn't want 300m brawler online

[Bishop Steiner]

Broceratops, on 13 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

I think the people who are leaving are mostly either bored with lack of content or just totally alienated by the UI and the pugstomping they have to endure in ****** trial mechs. Compared to the number of people who are not playing because of ECM I would think this is the huge majority.

If ECM is actually driving people away then they should look at it (and I think overall they will look at it anyway because it does too much for 1.5 tons), but I just think mostly its QQing from people who really really bought into the lock-on playstyle and now have to use other weapons.

Non of the trial mechs are lock-on heavy *anyway* so its not like ECM is destroying noobs. The lack of matchmaking, UI, lobby, and ****** trial mechs are all way bigger noob killers than ECM.

And as for the population as a whole, the fact is there isnt enough content in this game for most casual players. This may change in time but the state of the game is only suitable for niche gamers who are willing to join clans, player their own leagues, create their own drama, etc.

The good thing is that every patch I do see a lot of people come back to check it out (I have a looooot of people on my friends list and they're all varying levels of hardcore to casual, free accounts and premmies, so I think its a decent indicator). So I don't think many people are quitting forever, its more like they'll come back if the game is ever good enough for them.

I hope you are right, though the Hunchback and Catapults are LRMers in this trial mix, and the Streaks on the Awesome are "useless" for the new player, which when you look at the ******** heat curve, makes the mech virtually useless.

I do know, pre patch, since OB hit, I saw TONS of trial mechs in drops. By Thrusday of last week, virtually none. Doesn't seem like a coincidence to me.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

26 to 8 no. ppl would much rather have their op gear than not. big surprise there