1329 replies to this topic

[BLUEWOLF 07]

First off, thanks for all the info on the various guides, something I'm currently in the middle of with wanting to have built a new comp.

In the meantime,(short) I just wanted to beef up what I'm using, as I want to keep this comp for other art work I'm doing. I wanted to pop in a 560Ti with 448cores(using for Adobe Premiere Pro) as in this one, but it is about 10+inches, as I found on EVGA's site, and have looked at Asus of of same model, which are about same size. And I realize I'm going to have to up PSU to 550, I thought I go 650w(?), as per some stuff I was reading an with an 80+bronze like you mentioned in other post.

http://www.ncix.com/...GA&promoid=1067

I've got an 9.6 inch mobo that has it's 6 "Sata ports" at the far end of the vid card slot are located. Which is an "Asus IPIBL-LB, by HP known as Benicia GL8E, MicroATX 9.6inches x 9.6inches, which can be found here:

http://h10025.www1.h...product=3872423

My processor is an Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q8200 (4M Cache, 2.33 GHz, 1333 MHz FSB) which I uped to 8gigs of ram DDR2 i believe. I was also gonna pick up an Intel 520 180gb SSD to help with the whole setup.But I wanted to know first what I can do with the vid card as....

My Question is:

The Sata ports are about 8.5 inches in from where the video card port starts, should/could I put the 10.25 inch Vid card(448core model) in, which I have open slots above(runs 2.5slots I believe-for Asus), and pull out the current 2 Sata cables plugged into the MB(hard drive and optical) and just moveeee them up to say the Sata #5 and #6 slot, and bob's your uncle, or do I have do something else(edit bios or some such thing), or is that a no-no, or poof it will work when I Turn my comp back on, and ta-da!

Or

Should I get the normal 560ti, from other some manufacturer that they seem to come in 8.3 inch models, and avoid "interfering" with the sata ports?

I've never played with stuff like this so, any help would be great, thanks again!

[Vulpesveritas]

Lakevren, on 23 June 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

Not to mention you said yourself, and even I confirm it, multitasking is not that important in gaming, but you say it has an advantage in it anyways and make recommendations DUE TO IT?

Oh by the way, a broad perspective shouldn't have a bias, even ethics bias.
I used to have an ethics bias, especially against Nvidia. That was absolutely SILLY when I look back on it. If I had continued it, it would have cost me more money.
The only bias I have currently is for the best performance for the price. Even I don't consider the Bulldozer worthy when an i3 2100 can beat most AMD in gaming. An i3 2100 is a mere $120. Why sacrifice single-threaded performance for a multi-threaded one?

First on the benchmarks, that multitasking benchmark was only 7-zip, didn't seem to match other 7zip benchmarks of the same processors that I saw, and was of limited sample size.

Second, on multitasking, there are a few things;

• Games are becoming increasingly multithreaded, as all applications are. If you plan on not upgrading your CPU, then you are going to get a longer lifetime in gaming out of whichever processor is better in multitasking.
  
• Doing things other than gaming. I personally do not know anyone who uses their computer solely for gaming on a clean OS and no other programs running. Given that I am able to bring a quad core to 100% CPU usage using google chrome, VLC media player, and an antivirus, it is something to consider.
  
• Multitasking while gaming, so that you aren't experiancing performance drops when a program kicks in doing an action. Like an antivirus with real time protection enabled.

Another thing to consider is the overclockability of the AMD processors versus an i3. As I said even on the first page, an i3 will be faster for gaming in older titles without overclocking. Newer titles are becoming more and more multithreaded, and as such in future games the table may turn. For now, it is more a question of preference.

Finally on ethics. I'm sorry to hear that you value your wallet over your morals. But each person weighs their beliefs differently, and I personally consider my ethical choices to be more important than money or having to wait for a half second longer. But that's me. Each person has their own beliefs. Me personally, I find tht since AMD does have advantages to both price / performance in real life scenarios (once again, you don't have an antivirus, TS3, skype, etc ever running when you play a game on the multitask point? Or given your technical knowledge, that you wouldn't ever overclock? [the latter of course is situational, but for someone who is building their computer anyhow, you in all likelyhood might consider overclocking down the line.]) But a computer isn't a necessity, and as such I will buy, and should I see it as a better value, I will recommend an AMD processor where I can versus a comparible Intel one.

[Urban UK]

shadowsong, on 20 June 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Word of Blake, but with worse customer service.

Apologies if you DO work in customer service, SJ. Been there, done that, know how bad it can get... 8)

And I'll settle for my 40" Sony TV serving as my computer monitor. Just as much screen real estate as most smaller multi-monitor setups, 120 hz processing for smooth motion, and I don't have to worry about the frames of the multiple monitors getting in my way.

big screen is good yes, I am currently using a 37" hdtv, the thing about triple screens is you get a much higher resolution and a massive field of view, I'm looking into getting 3 screens, hopefully my sli 580gtx can handle it

[Uri Brauer]

Dammit... was thinking Warthog without realising there's no twist. Maybe the dual throttles could be used to control both direction and speed, but that sounds both tricky to physically control, and unlikely to be handled by software.

Played with an X-52 in a shop today and it just doesn't feel right - near zero resistance on the stick itself, and all the stick buttons just feel cheap... that's off the list. After that, not sure I'm willing to go for the Pro version either, without trying it first.

Hmm... now pondering a dual T.16000M setup (noting that I can set one up for leftie use, for comfort). That gives me 4 Hall Effect axes... but as per the comment above by OP, means holding one stick full forward a lot of the time. At least these sticks are cheap, so if it doesn't work out, it won't hurt the pocket so much.

But I'll probably have another crazy idea by tomorrow...

[Urban UK]

Uri Brauer, on 23 June 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

Dammit... was thinking Warthog without realising there's no twist. Maybe the dual throttles could be used to control both direction and speed, but that sounds both tricky to physically control, and unlikely to be handled by software.

Played with an X-52 in a shop today and it just doesn't feel right - near zero resistance on the stick itself, and all the stick buttons just feel cheap... that's off the list. After that, not sure I'm willing to go for the Pro version either, without trying it first.

Hmm... now pondering a dual T.16000M setup (noting that I can set one up for leftie use, for comfort). That gives me 4 Hall Effect axes... but as per the comment above by OP, means holding one stick full forward a lot of the time. At least these sticks are cheap, so if it doesn't work out, it won't hurt the pocket so much.

But I'll probably have another crazy idea by tomorrow...

Those thrustmaster sticks looks alright, how do you know you'll have to hold the throttle control stick forward for a long time, Mebbe they'll have cruise control in 3049?

[Lakevren]

Vulpesveritas, on 23 June 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

First on the benchmarks, that multitasking benchmark was only 7-zip, didn't seem to match other 7zip benchmarks of the same processors that I saw, and was of limited sample size.

Second, on multitasking, there are a few things;

• Games are becoming increasingly multithreaded, as all applications are. If you plan on not upgrading your CPU, then you are going to get a longer lifetime in gaming out of whichever processor is better in multitasking.
  
• Doing things other than gaming. I personally do not know anyone who uses their computer solely for gaming on a clean OS and no other programs running. Given that I am able to bring a quad core to 100% CPU usage using google chrome, VLC media player, and an antivirus, it is something to consider.
  
• Multitasking while gaming, so that you aren't experiancing performance drops when a program kicks in doing an action. Like an antivirus with real time protection enabled.

Another thing to consider is the overclockability of the AMD processors versus an i3. As I said even on the first page, an i3 will be faster for gaming in older titles without overclocking. Newer titles are becoming more and more multithreaded, and as such in future games the table may turn. For now, it is more a question of preference.


Finally on ethics. I'm sorry to hear that you value your wallet over your morals. But each person weighs their beliefs differently, and I personally consider my ethical choices to be more important than money or having to wait for a half second longer. But that's me. Each person has their own beliefs. Me personally, I find tht since AMD does have advantages to both price / performance in real life scenarios (once again, you don't have an antivirus, TS3, skype, etc ever running when you play a game on the multitask point? Or given your technical knowledge, that you wouldn't ever overclock? [the latter of course is situational, but for someone who is building their computer anyhow, you in all likelyhood might consider overclocking down the line.]) But a computer isn't a necessity, and as such I will buy, and should I see it as a better value, I will recommend an AMD processor where I can versus a comparible Intel one.

I'd discuss the difference between ethics and morality, but that's another discussion. Either way, don't confuse it and don't use it interchangeably. And technically, you are violating subsets of ethics: impartiality and objectivity.

As for the Quad core using those programs, not for me. 30-50% max, no hyperthreading, on an i7 950.
An anti-virus scan can be sped up by using an SSD. Real-time protection, as far as I've seen it, doesn't do much on the CPU load. Of course this depends which Antivirus you use.
The usage of firefox+TS3+steam+gaming+whatever else rarely affects the CPU usage. The load is negligible. Unless of course you play a game while you browse, then it might.

If I wanted to overclock, I'd do it with a decent processor, not a POS. Going from an i7 950 to a Bulldozer would be a downgrade. Piledriver might be another story, and I really hope it is. But then Intel has Haswell coming and unless Haswell flops hard, Piledriver has to play catch up again. Piledriver better surpass or match Ivy Bridge to prevent that.
And you should consider whether people even care to overclock. Most people don't, and I do ask them. I end up recommending them the non-k processors most of the time due to that.
If it's a budget non-gaming computer, I'll likely consider AMD. Even then, I'll likely consider Phenom II or Athlon II over Bulldozer. Too bad the previous-gen AMD are going out of stock, because they were honestly the better processors. This Bulldozer was likely a result of incredible mismanagement.

[Bob Niac]

noobie here .. but even if i could afford it .. not looking forward to the razer joystick. build quality vs cost just hasn't been there in recent years for them.

[Sir Trent]

I looked at the prices for the Thrustmaster 16000M and the Combatstick and I guess it's because I live in Sweden that the prices differ more then your numbers. The 16000M is about 50$ here in Sweden but the Combatstick is more then 120$ so it's a bit to much for me. Would be nice if I got something in between that was worth buying, My brain/coordination is not good enough to use a twist stick to steer/aim so I probably use the keyboard for acceleration and turning so twist is not really a necessity (would be good as I play some flight games though).

I tried to play MW4 yesterday with my Microsoft FF2 and I got a little annoyed that when you turn of the Force feedback (couldn't handle the shake from the walking) the stick can not center itself and the aim really suffers. So I think I really need a new one for MWO if I'm going to play with a stick.

[Sir Trent]

Urban UK, on 23 June 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

Those thrustmaster sticks looks alright, how do you know you'll have to hold the throttle control stick forward for a long time, Mebbe they'll have cruise control in 3049?

Didn't they say in one Dev blog that the mechs will be controlled like in MW4, that is they have a throttle level that will keep the speed. So using two joysticks will not require it to be pushed forward as you will only increase the throttle level pushing it forward and reducing by pulling back so it could be kept in neutral when you have chosen your velocity. But I'm not sure if that is a conformable way to play but at least turning is nice to control with a separate joystick or paddles.

[Uri Brauer]

I guess that's how the throttle would have to work under digital control (ie keyboard). The question is, will it be possible to have analogue control of the throttle (and if not, how would any HOTAS style throttle work?).

Edited by Uri Brauer, 24 June 2012 - 03:36 AM.

[Sir Trent]

Uri Brauer, on 24 June 2012 - 03:36 AM, said:

I guess that's how the throttle would have to work under digital control (ie keyboard). The question is, will it be possible to have analogue control of the throttle (and if not, how would any HOTAS style throttle work?).

Oh yeah didn't think of that, well In MW4 the throttles control the throttle like an analogue translating the position to pure percentage so I guess a stick would probably control it more like that. Would be nice if you could set a speed like 60% (with a throttle on either stick) and then use the stick to decrease and increase the speed. It would probably be best for traveling but for combat you would probably want full control.

[Romulus Stahl]

Great compilation.
Can anyone point me to info on the game supporting multiple usb inputs? IE HOTAS Warthog/Cougar and USB rudder.

[Slaytan1c]

Running Asus Formula crosshair V here. Rock solid board for gaming and overclocking

[Slaytan1c]

BLUEWOLF 07 you should be ok to move sata cables with power turned off. Should boot up fine

Edited by SLAYTAN1C, 24 June 2012 - 07:00 AM.

[Ishtar]

Ares McMannus, on 22 June 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

If you work as as Security guard then its probably a breach of contract to swap out the camera feeds to the monitors so you can post on the forums, watch youtube and play MWO all at the same time instead of actually watching whats going on during those long lonely nights.



Die, Demon, DIE!

Im not employed as a security guard, I work in satcom, on a smaller network.

[Aznpersuasion89]

The one I was recommended was the antec vp450. I bought works great. I just found a review at hardware secrets ( http://www.hardwares...y-Review/1487/1) and for being a budget psu it had a very good review. It was true to what was advertised and didnt disappoint. And its over 80% efficient

Edited by Aznpersuasion89, 24 June 2012 - 10:08 PM.

[Valhakar]

For what its worth, I have been an ATI user for 12+ years. I just walked away from my ATI Radeon HD7950 due to the crap drivers for the 7000 series. The secret World Crashes, Everquest 2 mounts render incorrectly, Memory allocation of the 3 GB while folding hits a wall and then makes my Ferrarri into a Fiero.

Meanwhile my wife's 560 Ti runs great and OUTPERFORMS my newer generation card in games lik SWTOR.

EVGA has its own site and allows you to buy from them as a "member".

EVGA GeForce GTX 680 SC Signature 2 was bought for $519. So much for the argument that you could not find any.

Product Features

• Base Clock: 1084MHz
  
• Boost Clock: 1150MHz
  
• Memory Clock: 6208MHz
  
• Cuda Cores: 1536
  
• PCI-Express 3.0
  
• 2048MB GDDR5 256bit
  
• Nvidia SMX Engine, Nvidia GPU Boost, NVidia Adaptive Verticle Sync, Nvidia Surround, Support for Concurrent Displays, Nvidia PhysX, Nvidia 3D Vision Ready, Nvidia SLI Ready, Nvidia CUDA Technology

Toms Hardware summed it up best:

Quote

The new GeForce GTX 680 bests the Radeon HD 7970 and keeps up with dual-GPU] cards like the GeForce GTX 590 and Radeon HD 6990. As a result of its compelling performance, AMD was forced to drop the price of its own flagship from $550 to $480.

Edited by Valhakar, 25 June 2012 - 02:37 PM.

[Skrapheap]

Lakevren, on 21 June 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

However, you can indeed make a list of brands to avoid, heh. That might be easier. *COUGH*Diablotek*COUGH*.

Odins Fist, on 21 June 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

OMG... Diablotek... Can you say "FIRE HAZARD"..???

I would not be caught with one on my desk for use as a paperweight. Not only are the *censored* things a fire hazard, they have a tendency to die early and take the whole system with them. I think you can safely disregard anything anyone says about tech if they attempt to proclaim anything made by that company is decent.

Also eXtreme Power Supply Calculator is a useful tool for getting a rough idea about how much PSU you actually need. It also has the calculation for CPU overclocking, and capacitor aging.

Edited by Wulffemein, 25 June 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[Chiyeko Kuramochi]

Interesting find for a new one to PC building like myself, my Z77 MB down clocked my cpu and RAM. I have 1866Mhz ram and it was clocked to 1333 instead, also the turbo boost of the cpu was not activated and it was put in a balanced state. Changing this to prefromance and 1866mhz did increase the performance index.

Ram went from 7.7 to 7.9 cpu from 7.7 to 7.8 though it remains the lowest rated item (all of the rest is 7.9)

[Firelizard]

Romulus Stahl, on 24 June 2012 - 05:46 AM, said:

Great compilation.
Can anyone point me to info on the game supporting multiple usb inputs? IE HOTAS Warthog/Cougar and USB rudder.

I cant say anything for certain, however it has been tossed around that the devs use Logitech G940's. Even though it takes up one port the G940 presents itself as three USB devices, due to the fact that the throttle and joystick portions max out the number of HID axis and buttons. So if THAT thing is what the devs are working with, I would assume that any multi-device setup works.

Of course, this is based on secondhand information, so take it for what it's worth.