67 replies to this topic

[Arbhall Sommers]

definitely don't like talking of player side supply and demand. That implies a player based economy in game. Which iam violently against.it would ruin the game for me, I hate how overpriced player based economies become.

[RobarGK]

I cannot find the quote (although I found someone quoting Bryan saying he said this) but it is said that when you first start the game you will get to pick from one of four mechs, one in each weight class. So, if this is true, then why would every new player not pick the assault mech as their free mech?

[Spheroid]

Arbhall Sommers, on 16 May 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

definitely don't like talking of player side supply and demand. That implies a player based economy in game. Which iam violently against.it would ruin the game for me, I hate how overpriced player based economies become.

What alternative is there then if not through economic means? Mech alotment via rank or lottery is possible. What do you want to see?

Edited by Spheroid, 16 May 2012 - 11:33 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

RobarGK, on 16 May 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

I cannot find the quote (although I found someone quoting Bryan saying he said this) but it is said that when you first start the game you will get to pick from one of four mechs, one in each weight class. So, if this is true, then why would every new player not pick the assault mech as their free mech?

Maybe it's unsellable or unmodifiable. Maybe a Light is worth just as much as an Assault. Maybe the maintenance fees on an Assault are criminally steep.

I have no idea.

[Ramien]

RobarGK, on 16 May 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

I cannot find the quote (although I found someone quoting Bryan saying he said this) but it is said that when you first start the game you will get to pick from one of four mechs, one in each weight class. So, if this is true, then why would every new player not pick the assault mech as their free mech?

Because the new player may still have heard of Battletech/Mechwarrior and wants to fulfill a different role than an assault?

Because maybe they're playing with a friend who makes a suggestion based on what will help that friend the most?

Because one of the non-assault mechs look cooler?

Because the game may actually make suggestions regarding playstyle before the first mech is picked?

Because they visited the forums and did some research ahead of time?

[MadBoris]

In the Mechlab video you get some prices on mechs starting at 40 seconds.

3.1 million CB for the Jenner
9.6 million CB for the Atlas

I expect repairs to be relative across the board, obviously more weapons/modules on board a chassis that holds more will be more costly to repair. Furthermore, chassis repair I can see being relative to cost of the chassis.
They seem to have a standard 75% mark down for reselling things, maybe including mechs too.

By the way, weapon costs range from a few thousand to several hundred thousand (200k for a PPC).
Imagine how long it will take to earn 3 million for your next mech by earning just earning in game exp. plus the obvious repairs along the way, a little while I think. It should feel rewarding.

RobarGK, on 16 May 2012 - 11:27 PM, said:

I cannot find the quote (although I found someone quoting Bryan saying he said this) but it is said that when you first start the game you will get to pick from one of four mechs, one in each weight class. So, if this is true, then why would every new player not pick the assault mech as their free mech?

This is my thinking...
An Assault mech without weapons will have a tough time gaining XP early on. It needs a lot of weapons that will cost a lot more total CB to fully outfit for the battlefield than outfitting a Jenner for instance. You won't start with a lot of CB but sufficient to buy some basic loadout. You'll gain it by your performance in game, and without many powerful goodies to start, it will be tough to outfit and earn with that big slow target, I mean, chassis.

Edited by MadBoris, 17 May 2012 - 12:04 AM.

[autogyro]

In my opinion, we are missing the real crux of the issue.

It's not about initial cost. It's about relative upkeep.

If you want medium mechs to be the workhorse, which is what I'm pretty sure the devs want, then, on average, they should earn the greatest profits (C-Bills gained in match vs C-Bills spend on repair).

The purchase cost for Mechs themselves should generally adhere to the TT cost spread. Assaults should generally cost more than Lights. Upgraded tech should cost more than Standard tech, etc.

[Kreisel]

Seeing as I'm thinking that repairs should scale with how many points of armor and internal structure you need to fix, yes I would think heavier Mechs should cost more to repair, not a flat rate for the mech more, if you manage to bring your assault mech into the match and take less points of damage than a light mech well then, your repairs are prettttty minor at that point and it ought not to cost much. On the other hand, if your Atlas is destroyed.... well that a LOT more damage you suffered.

Also since you load more weapons, and since it should cost me the same to repair a medium laser no matter what size I am or mech I'm in... you have more weapons in potential need of repair. Sure a Jenner might have 4 medium lasers in need of fixing, but an Atlas has that and an AC20, an LRM and SRM to boot.

so the short answer is: If you get shot up more, your repairs ought to cost more, this is more likely the more stuff you have that can be blown up and the bigger slower target your walking around in.

We should be looking at the same factors when it comes to initial cost. Consider everything we can get out of mech in this game if we strip it down. An Atlas has more tons of armor, more tons of internal structure, The weapons that come with it need to be factored into the price, it might be slower but loads a bigger engine that if you removed and threw in smaller mech would be more powerful, the number of hardpoints on the mech ought to be a factor and the spare available weight to load weapons into. Hows the torso twist, how well does it turn compaired to others moving the same speed? Is it a mech that supposed to be rare and is in high demand? Is it made by those people you keep shooting at? The number of modules a chassis can load should effect price too, in some cases that will bring up the cost of lighter mechs closer in line of those with more tonnage, but frankly speaking just looking at the in game pieces it takes to build a larger mech, it's very rare a smaller mech should cost more, unless it comes with much more advanced weapons and Tech.

Well unless your a Lyran that is, maybe then an Atlas ought to cost less than an Raven, after all it is their 'scout' mech.

[Tarellond]

I voted for the last option, heavier mechs should be more expensive to both purchase and repair.
They have more armor, thus can remain longer in firefights, inflict more damage and get higher payment for that.
If the purchase costs wil be the same and so would be the repair costs, folks would just play heavy/assault mechs for money, since they would be able to make more money with the same costs.

[Blind Baku]

Arbhall Sommers, on 16 May 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

definitely don't like talking of player side supply and demand. That implies a player based economy in game. Which iam violently against.it would ruin the game for me, I hate how overpriced player based economies become.

While I am generally of the opposite oppinion and the only things that are 'overpriced' are those that are useful, and intruth they too are 'accurately price' when compaired to those things that are worthless and those priced accordingly. Supply, Demand and production capabilities will dictate the cost of anything... Go play eve for a month while readig the 'wealth of nations'.
Prices are signals to and from the market about the value[Labor] that a given item is worth, but I'm not here to give an econ lecture.
I have to admit that the limitations in MWO for making things would make me hesitant to say we should have a Player driven economy... Unless they make a system for item creation, but that would suck, who wants to play as a ClixAgroMech...
As far as mech costs and repairs, atleast at launch I feen mechs should be rated at potential battle value and priced accordingly, the higher tonnages having a higher value in costomability, and just mass, should be more expencive. Also they should cost more to repair, but not in a silly arbitrarily dictated system, say you have 25T Mech at 50% Damage, that means you have 12.5T worth of damage so it will cost you 1 CBill per T. If you have and Atlas at 100T at 50% then you have 50T, etc... not the best system but I think the rate of repairs should remain constant, with possible adjustments if say you loose an entire limb vs just damaged it.

Edited by William Tyndale, 17 May 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[FrostPaw]

I expect much like in WoT, the size of the mech and the equipment it uses will dictate it's value and upkeep costs. The Only way you can encourage players to not all take the biggest mech they can buy is that larger mechs make less money due to upkeep costs.

[Mechteric]

FrostPaw, on 17 May 2012 - 05:27 AM, said:

I expect much like in WoT, the size of the mech and the equipment it uses will dictate it's value and upkeep costs. The Only way you can encourage players to not all take the biggest mech they can buy is that larger mechs make less money due to upkeep costs.

well that and by having smaller mechs be able to be useful in battle. This is not only where roles come into play, but also the ability for a smaller mech to avoid fire if s/he plays it smart.

[Grokmoo]

Heavier mechs should cost more, however probably not as much more as the tabletop rules would indicate. Maybe the atlas should cost 3 times as much as the commando.

I also like the idea of supply and demand affecting prices. However that may be a bit more sophisticated than what we will see at launch.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

They should use the orig. TT prices. Mechs with better weapons or equpment should be more expensive.
The Raven for an example: It is a light mech, but it is much more expensive (5,701,725 C-bills) than medium mechs like Hunchback or Centurion (both about 3,400,000 C-bills), cause the Raven has much better equipments like ECM Suite, Beagle Active Probe, TAG, Narc Beacon.

[Skylarr]

Watched the video of the Mech Lab. It shows the values of the Mechs that are on the game so far. They appear to follow Standard values. The equipment, weapons and ammo also followed the standard values

Jenner JR7-D 3,198,715 C-bills
Hunchback HBK-4G 3,467,875 C-bills
Dragon DRG-1N 5,036,800 C-bills
Catapult CPLT-C1 5,790,125 C-bills
Atlas AS7-D 9,626,000 C-bills

Paul started off with 500,000,000 C-Bills. New players may only start off with say 10,000,000 C-Bills. So player can buy one assault or several lighter Mechs.

Say you bought an assault and you die early on in the match. You may be sitting around for 10 min waiting for it to finish. An I hope you do not run out of money trying to repair it.

Say you bought a light and a medium and do not re-config them right away. If you die in one match you can jump into another match right away. Plus have money to repair your Mechs.

Edited by Skylarr, 17 May 2012 - 08:18 AM.

[Mota Prefect]

Ramien, on 16 May 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Because the new player may still have heard of Battletech/Mechwarrior and wants to fulfill a different role than an assault?

Because maybe they're playing with a friend who makes a suggestion based on what will help that friend the most?

Because one of the non-assault mechs look cooler?

Because the game may actually make suggestions regarding playstyle before the first mech is picked?

Because they visited the forums and did some research ahead of time?

Wishful thinking m8

[Skylarr]

In WoT I have seen many players running smaller tank to help fund their heavy tier 10 tanks they use in guild events. There will be a match making process. They will not place 12 lights against 12 assaults (It is different if those 12 lights are elite warriors).

[Jonas]

Honestly in combat a Jenner is a good mech but the cost of building a Jenner is a fraction of that of a Atlas. To put in modern terms a compact truck is cheaper than a full size truck. Both are good but one costs 12 to 15 the other costs 18 to 30

[MadBoris]

Skylarr, on 17 May 2012 - 08:17 AM, said:

Watched the video of the Mech Lab. It shows the values of the Mechs that are on the game so far. They appear to follow Standard values. The equipment, weapons and ammo also followed the standard values

Jenner JR7-D 3,198,715 C-bills
Hunchback HBK-4G 3,467,875 C-bills
Dragon DRG-1N 5,036,800 C-bills
Catapult CPLT-C1 5,790,125 C-bills
Atlas AS7-D 9,626,000 C-bills

Paul started off with 500,000,000 C-Bills. New players may only start off with say 10,000,000 C-Bills. So player can buy one assault or several lighter Mechs.

I expect in beta they will start people off with a lot of the mechs and millions of CB. BUT, I don't think it will work like you mention for release. One point is you mentioned spending c bills on the first mech but that's the one we know will be free with no cost associated. Just click on your choice and it's in your slot (sounds like WOT).

I expect we will start with more like 100,000 - 500,000 C-Bills. Weapons and ammo run the gamut of cheap to quite expensive.
You want to give people enough to outfit their mech and something maybe for a consecutive repair as they learn not to die immediately.
If we knew how much repairs were it would answer a lot, like how much CB we will need to earn in a match, etc.

Quote

Say you bought an assault and you die early on in the match. You may be sitting around for 10 min waiting for it to finish. An I hope you do not run out of money trying to repair it.

You also may have to ask your team members for money if you run out, like in MWLL, that is if you can get back in the match.
I did hear somewhere that if you die once, you are out of the match (like WOT), maybe that is a particular game mode though.
Repair prices will be significant, that I am pretty sure of, at times dying in a match will literally 'cost' you.

Edited by MadBoris, 17 May 2012 - 10:43 AM.

[Volthorne]

MadBoris, on 17 May 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

You also may have to ask your team members for money if you run out, like in MWLL, that is if you can get back in the match.
I did hear somewhere that if you die once, you are out of the match (like WOT), maybe that is a particular game mode though.
Repair prices will be significant, that I am pretty sure of, at times dying in a match will literally 'cost' you.

It has been stated by the Devs that money transfers will not be in-game. In standard game modes (TDM and Capture), you die, you're done. Dropship mode (FFA/TDM?) will give you 3 respawns (4 mechs total).

Edited by Volthorne, 17 May 2012 - 10:56 AM.