90 replies to this topic

[StalaggtIKE]

ICEFANG13, on 15 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

A lot of pro-ECM say that. ECM is great, and its working just right. I love it on all my ECM mechs and I'm great with them.

Yeah, even I became a pro overnight after buying a RVN-3L. It couldn't be the ECM or the uncontested streaks. No, just my skills. Maybe after a weekend of pug stomping I too will feel that ECM is perfect.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 15 December 2012 - 08:31 AM.

[GIJosh]

of course not, thers a lot of stuff in game that is not ABSOLUTELY PERFECT.

[Tex Arcana]

Caducus46, on 14 December 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

Seems like most of the crying is coming from the Streak Cats, which were no skill to begin with, and LRM boats, which now have to actually think.

You obviously haven't been reading the 100's of posts on the subject if the above is what you think.
The primary complaints are coming from folks concerned with the following:
A ) Balance in PuGs
B ) The near disappearance of LRM's in PuGs. Due to them being nearly useless when compared to energy weapons and/or short range weaponry like SRMs (This also puts a big "negative" on Paul Inouye's statement that ECM is meant to reduce the presence of "Specialised Mechs"; which is very badly put. As the bulk of Mechs in PuGs are now Brawling Specialised).
C ) The protective bubble that is generated by a 1.5 ton piece of equipment that has NO PENALTY (In heat or otherwise).

Edited by Tex Arcana, 15 December 2012 - 08:43 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Cyrionthewise, on 15 December 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

I am not sure why so many people voted no. Ecm is working the way is it meant to. Not all Mechs can equip it. That is the way it is. I run all the ecm Mechs.

I do not agree. You do because it extends your lifespan on the battlefield. However, having actually used ECM (which I think very few MWO players have), the way the MWO version works, relative to the technology available in 3049, is way more advanced than it should be. If I cannot shoot farther than the current max range (something I also have long experience doing), then the ECM should not be so powerful an offensive option. ECM is intended to obscure RADAR (not deny or prevent) and deny (but not prevent) radio emissions to a point, but it takes more than an optical system to mitigate either of them over time (like frequency hopping radios or multiple freq RADARs). Why cannot TAG lasers reach out farther than they currently do? Modern systems (meaning LASER designator systems available today and even during the late 1900s) can reach out easily in excess of 2km.

We need an EMP effect capability ASAP to even out the playing field against multiple ECM mech usage in matches.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 15 December 2012 - 08:43 AM.

[JediMastaDJ]

Gremlich Johns, on 15 December 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

I do not agree. You do because it extends your lifespan on the battlefield. However, having actually used ECM (which I think very few MWO players have), the way the MWO version works, relative to the technology available in 3049, is way more advanced than it should be. If I cannot shoot farther than the current max range (something I also have long experience doing), then the ECM should not be so powerful an offensive option. ECM is intended to obscure RADAR (not deny or prevent) and deny (but not prevent) radio emissions to a point, but it takes more than an optical system to mitigate either of them over time (like frequency hopping radios or multiple freq RADARs). Why cannot TAG lasers reach out farther than they currently do? Modern systems (meaning LASER designator systems available today and even during the late 1900s) can reach out easily in excess of 2km.

We need an EMP effect capability ASAP to even out the playing field against multiple ECM mech usage in matches.

They are looking at increasing TAG to 750m. They are looking at having PPCs and ERPPCs act sort of like an EMP that it will temporarily disable ECM on a mech.

[Peiper]

Gremlich Johns, on 15 December 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

I do not agree. You do because it extends your lifespan on the battlefield. However, having actually used ECM (which I think very few MWO players have), the way the MWO version works, relative to the technology available in 3049, is way more advanced than it should be. If I cannot shoot farther than the current max range (something I also have long experience doing), then the ECM should not be so powerful an offensive option. ECM is intended to obscure RADAR (not deny or prevent) and deny (but not prevent) radio emissions to a point, but it takes more than an optical system to mitigate either of them over time (like frequency hopping radios or multiple freq RADARs). Why cannot TAG lasers reach out farther than they currently do? Modern systems (meaning LASER designator systems available today and even during the late 1900s) can reach out easily in excess of 2km.

We need an EMP effect capability ASAP to even out the playing field against multiple ECM mech usage in matches.

+1 THIS, Gremlich, is well said.

JediMastaDJ, on 15 December 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

They are looking at increasing TAG to 750m. They are looking at having PPCs and ERPPCs act sort of like an EMP that it will temporarily disable ECM on a mech.

Yes, bandaids... Because they cure the problem. This game development seems like a series of bandaids lately....

[Mordin Ashe]

I must admit I became pro after buying raven-3l as well. I had really hard times keeping my K/D over 5 when playing jenner or mediums, but after I bought the raven, it started rising again! Buying an ECN mech is like some magical potion of skill, you get that and suddenly you get +100 to all skills and +50 to your battlefield narrative.

[Bullseye69]

I would really like them to fix the lag shield and the net code issues they have that keep super fast jenner, commando, raven , and cicada from taking all there damage. I hit a commando 4 times center torso back with dual large laser and dual medium laser finally the fifth time he died. The first two hit he was barely moving in cave. I have hit commando running straight at me with 4 large laser from my Cataphract and it barely change his armor level. The same with the other mechs the only way to damage a light mech seems to be a scatter weapon like srm or lb10x . Lights take way more damage than they should before they die now couple that with streaks and lrm not locking on to them and you have a over power class that is to hard to take down. Now before everyone gets **** off you should not be forced to take ecm to counter ecm but if you have to then that should be available to all mechs not just select class or chassis or varient. If they can fix the lag shield and netcode that the lights seem to have and the one medium so that it register damage then those mechs would then be able hit them and ecm then would not be a mandatory item to to counter their ecm. Before ecm the only way to get hit on lights regularly was streaks which is why no light pilot wanted to fight a streak kitty.

This need to get fixed before the clan dasher is introduced with all it perks clan tech and insane speed.

Edited by Bullseye69, 15 December 2012 - 10:26 AM.

[HarmAssassin]

Quote

[color=#959595] I had really hard times keeping my K/D over 5 when playing jenner or mediums, but after I bought the raven, it started rising again![/color]

Finding it really hard to believe that you have a 5:1 K/D ratio, and until player stats are visible to everyone, I'll be calling B.S. on that one. I can post an edited stat block in my sig too, doesn't make it true.

Unless you play with 7 afk teammates in every round... that just isn't going to happen.

Edited by HarmAssassin, 15 December 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Guardian ECM is a perfect Angel ECM.

[Red squirrel]

Let me quote my own post (which actually was post #1753 in this ECM thread:

Red squirrel, on 15 December 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

Generally ECM is great but it needs some serious balance:

1) One ECM should be able to create a counter bubble of 180m removing any EMC effects in this bubble rather than to counter 1 ECM within 180m. Because
1.1) Currently it is whoever brings more wins the ECM bubble
1.2) In the current system you can counter an ECM 180m away and thus affect all mechs under this ECM which means your ECM has an effective range of 360m

2) The matchmaker should give both teams roughly the same amount of ECM mechs.
I had plenty of games with no ECM on one team and 4 on the other

3) Talking about 4: While ECM is a great thing we have reached a point where I would call the builds of several 4 man premade team an exploit. I guess everyone knows those 4ECM Commando/Raven capping teams for example. Also a group of 2 to 4 D-DC Atlai with ECM are just completely OP. Especially if it is 2 AWS trials vs 2 D-DC ECM mechs.

4) The complete negation of missle lock on is debatable. The Guardian ECM is no Angle ECM. And after beeing completely OP after the release of Artemis IV missles are now extremely weak.
Especially if one team gets several ECMs and the other team got none it is a huge balance problem. Since one team will get missles raining down while the other team is save.

Edit: 5) ECM makes AMS useless...haven't seen someone with AMS in a while now.


Tl;dr
EMC is fun but it seems to be balanced for premades that plan their drop.
In PUG games it leads to a strong advantage of one team with several ECM vs
another with none or few ECM mechs. This happens especially if you face 4man premades


www.STOP PUG STOMPING NOW.com

[Tolkien]

Gremlich Johns, on 15 December 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

I do not agree. You do because it extends your lifespan on the battlefield. However, having actually used ECM (which I think very few MWO players have), the way the MWO version works, relative to the technology available in 3049, is way more advanced than it should be. If I cannot shoot farther than the current max range (something I also have long experience doing), then the ECM should not be so powerful an offensive option. ECM is intended to obscure RADAR (not deny or prevent) and deny (but not prevent) radio emissions to a point, but it takes more than an optical system to mitigate either of them over time (like frequency hopping radios or multiple freq RADARs). Why cannot TAG lasers reach out farther than they currently do? Modern systems (meaning LASER designator systems available today and even during the late 1900s) can reach out easily in excess of 2km.

We need an EMP effect capability ASAP to even out the playing field against multiple ECM mech usage in matches.

The guy you replied to actually agrees with you, it's just that in the post you replied to he was being facetious - he is saying that after having given up on making the devs listen he just decided to take advantage of the brokenly OP ECM.

I know I have - merrily screw balance, I'm running a 3x streakSRM2 commando 2D with an ECM and a fast engine.
'fusk the police!'

Edited by Tolkien, 15 December 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[deathdealer02]

how one piece of equipment can undo or overide every other piece of equipment sold in game, is too my thinking a bit much, then theres the fact that it is also strong enough too make some mechs completely useless,, from what i've seen thus far in game, it is the intention of the Gamemakers too make this game intirely light mech dominated as every new upgrade or peice of equipment is primarily made too insure that the lighter class mechs dominate the game in its entirety, just as it is being dominated at this very moment without the streak cats too keep them in check. also, why even put classes of mechs and equipment into the game if u are going too turn around and make it useless just because a certain build killed u while playing the game....baby got ********* by a streakcat.....lmao total god complex if ya ask me

[Tolkien]

deathdealer02, on 15 December 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

how one piece of equipment can undo or overide every other piece of equipment sold in game, is too my thinking a bit much, then theres the fact that it is also strong enough too make some mechs completely useless,, from what i've seen thus far in game, it is the intention of the Gamemakers too make this game intirely light mech dominated as every new upgrade or peice of equipment is primarily made too insure that the lighter class mechs dominate the game in its entirety, just as it is being dominated at this very moment without the streak cats too keep them in check. also, why even put classes of mechs and equipment into the game if u are going too turn around and make it useless just because a certain build killed u while playing the game....baby got ********* by a streakcat.....lmao total god complex if ya ask me

I've heard the rumors too that one of the devs getting pasted by a streak cat was part of the reason behind ECM doing all the wacky stuff it does, allowing the chosen role of the dev to dominate. It's just a rumour though and should be treated as such.

I thought streaks needed adjustment either way, but now it's even worse since only those mechs that can carry an ECM themselves, or those that can count on having a friend or 2 nearby with ECM can effectively use them. Personally I am 'adapting' by running a commando 2D with 3 streak SRM2's and an ECM.

screw game balance, let's go break some stuff.

[stjobe]

I just had an eye-opener in another thread which made me understand why some people dislike ECM so much; the poster in question boldly stated he cannot distinguish friend from foe without the red and blue triangles above them.

As baffling as that seem to me, and as much as it saddens me, it does explain a bit of the disconnect between my own experiences with ECM (doesn't affect my game very much) and some other players (claims it's destroyed their game completely).

I just wonder if it's very common to have such low situational awareness that one cannot distinguish friend from foe without having them marked with coloured triangles?

[Tolkien]

stjobe, on 15 December 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

I just had an eye-opener in another thread which made me understand why some people dislike ECM so much; the poster in question boldly stated he cannot distinguish friend from foe without the red and blue triangles above them.

As baffling as that seem to me, and as much as it saddens me, it does explain a bit of the disconnect between my own experiences with ECM (doesn't affect my game very much) and some other players (claims it's destroyed their game completely).

I just wonder if it's very common to have such low situational awareness that one cannot distinguish friend from foe without having them marked with coloured triangles?

I just had an eye opener over in the ECM thread when I realized you were completely ignorant of the way the world works regarding markings on units and avoiding friendly fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundel Roundels like these went on aircraft to help identify whose fast moving kill machine you are shooting at. This is especially useful if you happen to be flying the same hardware as the competition.

Similarly 'IFF - Identify Friend or Foe' equipment http://en.wikipedia....n_friend_or_foe is literally a system where a friendly unit is required to send back a coded response or it is considered to be an enemy.

Situational awareness is not automatic in real life nor in a game absent some sort of marking or team colour. This was taken away by ECM.

[stjobe]

Oh I agree, situational awareness isn't automatic. I just didn't know that people depended on their IFF triangles to such a degree that taking them away made them totally unable to differentiate between friend and foe.

The other day I had a funny bug: I had a lock-on reticule constantly on my screen (in a Centurion without any lock-on weapons), no target boxes and no IFF triangles. I still ended up with three kills and two assists.

Edited by stjobe, 15 December 2012 - 03:22 PM.

[Belisarius1]

BAP should be able to see through it. As it is, BAP is almost totally useless.

Add that change, and I think it's reasonably fine.

[StalaggtIKE]

stjobe, on 15 December 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Oh I agree, situational awareness isn't automatic. I just didn't know that people depended on their IFF triangles to such a degree that taking them away made them totally unable to differentiate between friend and foe.

The other day I had a funny bug: I had a lock-on reticule constantly on my screen (in a Centurion without any lock-on weapons), no target boxes and no IFF triangles. I still ended up with three kills and two assists.

If removing the IFF triangles is not much a disadvantage, then why even have ECM include this feature? I guess because everyone is just not as awesome as you.

[DocBach]

ECM as it currently is implemented has pretty much removed half of the game. Been finding myself playing way more other games than MWO lately after the last patch. Don't say its learn to play or team work, its literally just have a couple heavy mechs blob up the center then have two ravens try to base cap. Thats what every game I've played the last two weeks has devolved into.

Bad capture mechanic + near impossible to kill lightmechs + ECM stealth null signature shields = crap game

this game is crap, and every "fix" and balancing act they've done has thrown the scale way off balance.