46 replies to this topic

[Mathmatics]

From Q&A #2, Nov 16th, 2011. We all know how its running now. I love battletech and will continue to pray to all the gods of the universe that it becomes a success.

On March 9, 2011 Adhesive Games announced Hawken with a trailer of the work-in-progress,^[6] with only 9 months of development behind it. It went open beta today and I have been playing it all day. Its extremely polished. I have not crashed a single time. I don't know about balance yet but the UI is very very nice. I dont really care for some of the mech design but I don't really care for the awesome either so that's not a game breaker.

Look I know they are two completely different kinds of games. Ive been waiting for the next mechwarrior game since mech5 was canned. I cried in my beer when EA shut down MPBT 3025. All that being said, even as a founder I have already found more things id like to spend money on in hawken than MWO. The paint system is better. The levels are WAY the eff better. Did I mention I have experienced zero bugs while playing all day? (however whenever I chance a dbl heatsink out for some ammo my mech bay crashes oh since September) Oh yeah and the forums are not full of people who just want to play FPS's cring that sim vets faceroll them in premades. Because they are all just fpsers in battlesuits.

I hope both games make it, because Im a fan boy I REALLY hope mwo stops digging its own grave. If you are going to listen you the people on the forums fine, but ffs listen to the right ones. Taking away team play in a team based game is absurd. (did I mention hawken has 4 game modes) It just boggles my mind. You are both indie company's and you guys have an IP any indie company would kill for. I wont speculate where things really started going down hill but I have an idea. Please for the love of not getting another decent battletech game for 10 years REMEMBER WHO YOU'RE FOUNDERS ARE! We will keep buying everything you put out if you do it in a way that appeals to us. All you have to do is ask what we want. Those FTPlayers are all good and fine but guess what. They will be playing hawken because its an fps that is very stable loyalty means dog dooo them.

Please dont lock this.
Math

[LionOne]

Interesting observations. Stability is key.

[Roland]

I played Hawken a bit, and found it very boring. It doesn't have anything that makes a mech game a mech game.

You just run around like in any other shooter... Basically feels kind of like a slower version of ArmoredCore.

[Inconspicuous]

Managing to keep longtime fans happy and still attract new players seems to be difficult with this IP.

[cmopatrick]

i think the problem is that hawken is not based on the cry3 engine (it's unreal 3, if i remember right) AND mwo tries to aim for more things that cry3 doesn't do well... meaning more mods needed to the shell.

have never developed a game, but i have worked on multimillion dollar corporate mods to cots financial packages... in my experience the further you go from the original core processing and database, the more complexity... often an exponential instead of linear increase. and the more complex, the more thorough the testing and change management needs to be. i honestly think pgi has the right ideas in the long run, but made some flawed basic assumptions... ones that are now biting them in the (rhymes with "grass").

[Mathmatics]

Roland, on 15 December 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

I played Hawken a bit, and found it very boring. It doesn't have anything that makes a mech game a mech game.

You just run around like in any other shooter... Basically feels kind of like a slower version of ArmoredCore.

I have played A LOT of armored core and it does not even remotely make me think of armored core. Maybe you are thinking of heavy gear? Or perhaps you never actually played armored core.

cmopatrick, on 15 December 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

i think the problem is that hawken is not based on the cry3 engine (it's unreal 3, if i remember right) AND mwo tries to aim for more things that cry3 doesn't do well... meaning more mods needed to the shell.

have never developed a game, but i have worked on multimillion dollar corporate mods to cots financial packages... in my experience the further you go from the original core processing and database, the more complexity... often an exponential instead of linear increase. and the more complex, the more thorough the testing and change management needs to be. i honestly think pgi has the right ideas in the long run, but made some flawed basic assumptions... ones that are now biting them in the (rhymes with "grass").

I kinda feel the same way. I have been wondering why crytek3 since the day it was announced. I do not suppose you have a possible solution where we all win?

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I played Hawken during it's closed beta, I got possibly twenty matches in, and walked away.

Hawken isn't mechs to me, it's twitch COD gameplay with a "mecha" asthetic.

When I think Mech gameplay, I think Mechwarrior [including MWO and MW:LL] I think Earthsiege and Starsiege.

Slow, plodding, lasers and missiles and PPC's... Hawken doesn't have that. The asthetic AND the gameplay of Hawken fails on a "mech" level to me.

If you enjoy it, then by all means, enjoy it, but it's not Mechs... it has a "mech" skin around it, but it's just another twitch shooter. And I'm soo, absolutely tired of twitch shooters in this day and age. COD and Battlefield have burned me out on it.

[Joe Mallad]

i would have to agree that the one thing shooting MWO in the foot right now is the game engine. Its a good engine but its not (at this point) ready for what they want to do with it in a game like this. Im sure that will change but man... im really wishing they would have just went with Unreal 3 engine and or the frostbite 2 engine.

[Vulix]

Dude, I downloaded Hawken 2 days ago and it's a piece of ****.

It literally has worse bugs than MWO.

Crash to desktop in MWO? Happens in Hawken, including a blue screen.
Mech Lab lock in MWO? How about all UI buttons in Hawken freezing, including the game's quit button.
Hakwn maps are the size of two city blocks.
Hawken has no fixed window mode and gameplay is mindless and repetitive.
Hawken has non-existant mech customizability. Also, at one point I unlocked a new gun but there was a bug that didn't let me equip it. They had to hotfix the game this morning to fix the equip bug.

Here is my thread on what makes MWO better than Hawken: http://mwomercs.com/...-customization/

Edited by Vulix, 15 December 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[Uriah Fable]

Why oh why is this game, the devs of this game, not seeing what is right in front of their eyes?!? I too have given Hawkens a try and agree with Math, it does seem very polished with little bugs and numerous appeals, ut it is NOT MWO. Not by a long shot. To me it felt more like COD in battlesuits. I much prefer the tactical gameplay of mechwarrior. But for the love of god, why do the devs not listen? Why are we STILL dealing with bugs that should have been addressed back in closed beta? Why are we still chasing PUGs to cap bases? Is it really so hard to add a Deatmatch option? Just remove the freaking bases and let us have the option of last man standing. Or how about just adding a single base in the center, make it neutral, and let both sides duke it out for control. Why did match making take a turn for the worse? So some whinners on the forums would stop crying?!? Sometimes it seems to me that what we had back in Sept was way more enticing than the game we currently endure. If it wasn't for the awesome group of die hard mech fans I currently run with, this game would have been history for me long ago. I too have waited 10 years for a new game in the Battletech genre to come along, so please, PLEASE, listen to those of us who will be here for another 10 years and let those that will be gone in a month go back to playing COD, or better yet, pass them a link to Hawkens, so we can get on with that which we enjoy, stomping around encased in tons of **** hot metal, laying waste to our opponents and celebrating our defeats as well as our victories!

[Mathmatics]

Jade Kitsune, on 15 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

I played Hawken during it's closed beta, I got possibly twenty matches in, and walked away.

Hawken isn't mechs to me, it's twitch COD gameplay with a "mecha" asthetic.

When I think Mech gameplay, I think Mechwarrior [including MWO and MW:LL] I think Earthsiege and Starsiege.

Slow, plodding, lasers and missiles and PPC's... Hawken doesn't have that. The asthetic AND the gameplay of Hawken fails on a "mech" level to me.

If you enjoy it, then by all means, enjoy it, but it's not Mechs... it has a "mech" skin around it, but it's just another twitch shooter. And I'm soo, absolutely tired of twitch shooters in this day and age. COD and Battlefield have burned me out on it.

I know what you mean. I feel like hawken is more like power armored fighting. I wish they advertised it as so but then they couldnt steal free marketing from mechwarrior. As far as power armor fighting it does a pretty good job

Yoseful Mallad, on 15 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

i would have to agree that the one thing shooting MWO in the foot right now is the game engine. Its a good engine but its not (at this point) ready for what they want to do with it in a game like this. Im sure that will change but man... im really wishing they would have just went with Unreal 3 engine and or the frostbite 2 engine.

Yeah man, its to bad that its way past the point of no return. This engine just might be the death of this game if they dont hire someone that knows the ins and outs of it.

Vulix, on 15 December 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

Dude, I downloaded Hawken 2 days ago and it's a piece of ****.

It literally has worse bugs than MWO.

Crash to desktop in MWO? Happens in Hawken, including a blue screen.
Mech Lab lock in MWO? How about all UI buttons in Hawken freezing, including the game's quit button.
Hakwn maps are the size of two city blocks.
Hawken has no fixed window mode and gameplay is mindless and repetitive.
Hawken has non-existant mech customizability. Also, at one point I unlocked a new gun but there was a bug that didn't let me equip it.

Here is my thread on what makes MWO better than Hawken: http://mwomercs.com/...-customization/

I have had no bugs at all with hawken today. I played for 5 hours straight. I played MWO for an hours and made it into 3 of 5 games and my mech lab crashed twice. One of the games I made it into none of the buildings had textures,

[Vulix]

Mathmatics, on 15 December 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

I have had no bugs at all with hawken today. I played for 5 hours straight. I played MWO for an hours and made it into 3 of 5 games and my mech lab crashed twice. One of the games I made it into none of the buildings had textures,

Just read the thread titles:

http://community.pla...39%3Bt+%2Bequip
http://community.pla...2Bto+%2Bdesktop
http://community.pla...e__hl__spinning

Edit: I'm not denying you did not have issues, I just wanted to demonstrate that Hawken is having issues too. Neither MWO or Hawken are perfect, so I don't feel it's fair to say MWO is bad for having bugs when Hawken has similar stability problems

Edited by Vulix, 15 December 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[cmopatrick]

Mathmatics, on 15 December 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

I kinda feel the same way. I have been wondering why crytek3 since the day it was announced. I do not suppose you have a possible solution where we all win?

man, i wish i did.

i never was a c++ coder (what they ask for on their hiring page... i was a synon IIe and cool2E developer and dba w/ some lansa/acbs & sys admin) and not a game dev.

i do think it's the project management level that needs to be reviewed. there must be a way to reign in the roll outs without impacting the game community. too little space to speculate here (without putting everyone to sleep).

[Dark Severance]

Mathmatics, on 15 December 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

On March 9, 2011 Adhesive Games announced Hawken with a trailer of the work-in-progress,with only 9 months of development behind it.

They didn't actually start around the same time, over a year is not exactly the same time. There is a lot that can be done in a years time.

Hawken was announced on March 9th, 2011 with 9 months in development. That means they started development around June 2010.

Mechwarrior Online started development in November 2011. The tweet campaign that they finally received a backer started in October 2011, so they could of started development a month earlier but its closer to Nov 2011 that it actually started.

Hawken has had an extra 17 months of development (1 year, 5 months) MORE than Mechwarrior Online. Just saying...

Edited by Dark Severance, 15 December 2012 - 05:32 PM.

[Mathmatics]

Uriah Fable, on 15 December 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

Why oh why is this game, the devs of this game, not seeing what is right in front of their eyes?!? I too have given Hawkens a try and agree with Math, it does seem very polished with little bugs and numerous appeals, ut it is NOT MWO. Not by a long shot. To me it felt more like COD in battlesuits. I much prefer the tactical gameplay of mechwarrior. But for the love of god, why do the devs not listen? Why are we STILL dealing with bugs that should have been addressed back in closed beta? Why are we still chasing PUGs to cap bases? Is it really so hard to add a Deatmatch option? Just remove the freaking bases and let us have the option of last man standing. Or how about just adding a single base in the center, make it neutral, and let both sides duke it out for control. Why did match making take a turn for the worse? So some whinners on the forums would stop crying?!? Sometimes it seems to me that what we had back in Sept was way more enticing than the game we currently endure. If it wasn't for the awesome group of die hard mech fans I currently run with, this game would have been history for me long ago. I too have waited 10 years for a new game in the Battletech genre to come along, so please, PLEASE, listen to those of us who will be here for another 10 years and let those that will be gone in a month go back to playing COD, or better yet, pass them a link to Hawkens, so we can get on with that which we enjoy, stomping around encased in tons of **** hot metal, laying waste to our opponents and celebrating our defeats as well as our victories!

If it was not for Murphy's law I would definitely be on a long hiatus from MWO right now. I will stick it out though. Hell I played darkfall for 2 years because of my guild there. I want this game to be the great game I know it can be soooo badly. I also terrified its a pipe dream. I stuck through Starwars galaxies before NGE with the same hope.

All the negativity aside. The core combat system is great. Some of the newest additions are great. It feels like battletech more than any game in a long long time and I love it, I love it so much that if it dies I will mourn it with all my heart.

I really wish they would give us our own rooms to drop from. Where you dont win cbills but that way you could drop with friends and stuff. Even Add bots to practice lance fighting with. I don't know I wish a whole lot and most of the things I have wanted the most have not even been mentioned except in a pc gamer article.

[Mathmatics]

Vulix, on 15 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Just read the thread titles:

http://community.pla...39%3Bt+%2Bequip
http://community.pla...2Bto+%2Bdesktop
http://community.pla...e__hl__spinning

Edit: I'm not denying you did not have issues, I just wanted to demonstrate that Hawken is having issues too. Neither MWO or Hawken are perfect, so I don't feel it's fair to say MWO is bad for having bugs when Hawken has similar stability problems

Having stability issues on the first open beta day on a pc game is fair enough I think? Having issues carried over from closed beta still going on today how many months later? I dont know what to say man. Im a battletech fanboy through and through but you might be on pgi's payroll just kidding mate.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

I played a little Hawken; it was okay, but they are completely different games and I personally like MWO a lot better.

Hawken is more stable and performs better. Makes me wish PGI had gone with a more simple to use and well established game engine, but being cutting edge now could mean more longevity in the future.

Hawken also might not have the abundance of balance issues, didn't play enough to really be able to tell, but here that is mostly an issue of the game being based on Battletech rules. I kind of wish PGI had set the game earlier in the timeline to avoid any t2 tech, but it's a bit late for that now.

[Vulix]

Cryengine is technologically superior and I think MWO will have a better future 3 years from now with Cryengine over anything else. There are some comparisons of engines out there if you want to look them up to get full compairison of them. I think PGI just needs more time to fully learn the engine; when they become more proficient.

At the end of the day, it is really up to PGI to learn how to use their underlying technology to it's full potential. I think they would have had similar problems with Unreal if they went that route. Just give them time

[Nightcrept]

I've been testing hawken almost since the beginning.

It's a good game but it isn't really comparable to mwo.

Hawken has many many bugs and isn't really a mech combat sim. It's more of a mech cod hybrid. You can develop your mech and change weapons sort of like here but the fighting is more twitch based and you have less weapons and mechs to choose from.

The bonuses of hawken are that the mech painting system is better, the levels are beautiful and they have some cool play modes.

It has respawns too like typical twitch based games.


So my final analysis is that it is a shooter and this is a sim.

[Undead Bane]

Mathmatics, on 15 December 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

...hope mwo stops digging its own grave. If you are going to listen you the people on the forums fine, but ffs listen to the right ones. Taking away team play in a team based game is absurd. (did I mention hawken has 4 game modes) It just boggles my mind. You are both indie company's and you guys have an IP any indie company would kill for. I wont speculate where things really started going down hill but I have an idea. Please for the love of not getting another decent battletech game for 10 years REMEMBER WHO YOU'RE FOUNDERS ARE! We will keep buying everything you put out if you do it in a way that appeals to us. All you have to do is ask what we want. Those FTPlayers are all good and fine but guess what. They will be playing hawken because its an fps that is very stable loyalty means dog dooo them.

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