126 replies to this topic

[mekabuser]

bumprocks are rage i agree.
mwll is a perfect example of whats wrong with humanity. A superiour, by far, game that no one plays.
If there were only 200 players a night, there would be no need to play this abortion of a game till it got its act together.

But you know what? mw4 only had 50 people playing a night for all the years I played the game.

Its just that people are ignorant.
mwll, a perfectly balance combined arms game featuring mechs with all the trimmings of the BT universe with ten times the content<probably 20x> and yet people dont play because.

Theres no mechlab qq
I have to start in a light qq
Theres nothing to unlock qq.
I get beat up qq.
The animations look funny qq <newsflash, they dont look great in this game either and btw, the MECHS themselves look a lot better in mwll than here. >
Death animations are too good in mwll and they have crit nukes qq

We had 5% of the qq you see here on the mwll forums.. You know why? we all knew that the game was awesome. Everything they implemented in game over time was done well. The result, beautiful, balanced games for the most part.

150 players a night would guarantee a majority of fantastic matches..
Unfortunately, people are just too dumb to play it.
They would rather be crack heads and think that this game will one day provide them with what they are looking for.

Id like nothing more than to be proved wrong. LEts see what the next patch brings.

[Bishop Steiner]

S3dition, on 16 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Actually they ARE 2.0 right now (straight from the game files). They are 1.4 on the engine ONLY. This is because the upgrade would give you 24 free heatsinks on larger engines, which is just insane for a game with real time heat. You can easily roll with 40 heatsinks on an assault mech, which makes heat a non-factor.

Double heatsinks still give a substantial advantage over regular heatsinks, especially combined with small size, high heat energy weapons.

Like to see which mech you can roll with 40 Heat Sinks making it a non factor. (Are we talking 20 DHS for "40" heat, 40 HS for it, what?)

The AWS-9M rolls 20 DHS, and grossly overheats attempting to use TWO of it's 3 ER PPCs. And Actually will overheat firing just one. Original 10 DHS from engine gets 2.0, don't believe extras installed do. Externals get 1.4. So equivalent of 34-35 HS. And nowhere near enough to make it viable. In fact, not enough to make it truly usable with STANDARD PPCs. (Alpha, ALpha, Shut Down, Alpha, Shutdown, is NOT the way to run a mech)

At max, a mech mounting a 400XL could have 16 internal heat sinks. And externally up to 12 more. Equivalent to what... 45-49 SHS, depending on if ALL engine DHS count at 2.0 or if only the base 10 do (when modding in mech lab, the heat scale seams to indicate only the base 10, but not claiming that is scientific certainty).

Of course you now 2 criticals available in each leg, the CT and one in the head to mount weapons.... IF there is a hard point there. On an ATLAS, being the only mech you could realistically stuff a 400XL in to (Yeah an AWESOME could too, but have pretty much no tonnage for anything else (and that is if the Engine limiter for either allows one that large)

One can in THEORY actually get better heat efficiency with singles, if one could fit a 400XL with it's 16 internal, and then approximately 38-39 external HS. Of course, that again leaves no room or weight, for ANY weapon systems. Of course one could mount a mere 30 external, and be heat neutral on a SINGLE ER PPC.

While in most designs, Heat is not horribly broken, the point is a system that works equally across the board, and allows designs like the AS-7K or AWS-9M to actually be viable, instead of Paper weights if they actually attempt to use half of their armament. I don't think they should be able to alpha with abandon, but neither design even comes close to doiing anything like that.

I don't want to see Laser Warrior Online, but I also WOULD like to see the system at a place where canon builds like a MAD-3D, AWS-8Q or 9M, WHM-6R, etc, are at least remotely viable, (as some of the "most feared" designs in the game), instead of being a liability as they are now.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 16 December 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

mekabuser, on 16 December 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

bumprocks are rage i agree.
mwll is a perfect example of whats wrong with humanity. A superiour, by far, game that no one plays.
If there were only 200 players a night, there would be no need to play this abortion of a game till it got its act together.

But you know what? mw4 only had 50 people playing a night for all the years I played the game.

Its just that people are ignorant.
mwll, a perfectly balance combined arms game featuring mechs with all the trimmings of the BT universe with ten times the content<probably 20x> and yet people dont play because.

Theres no mechlab qq
I have to start in a light qq
Theres nothing to unlock qq.
I get beat up qq.
The animations look funny qq <newsflash, they dont look great in this game either and btw, the MECHS themselves look a lot better in mwll than here. >
Death animations are too good in mwll and they have crit nukes qq

We had 5% of the qq you see here on the mwll forums.. You know why? we all knew that the game was awesome. Everything they implemented in game over time was done well. The result, beautiful, balanced games for the most part.

150 players a night would guarantee a majority of fantastic matches..
Unfortunately, people are just too dumb to play it.
They would rather be crack heads and think that this game will one day provide them with what they are looking for.

Id like nothing more than to be proved wrong. LEts see what the next patch brings.

If you think 200 people playing a game is a good thing then you are delusional. MWO needs thousands, or 10s of thousands to continue. MWLL was quite boring and the graphics are not really that great. They looked good at first, but they are very bland. There was almost no balance and the community was so small that it was pointless. If you enjoy MWLL then you should play it (that is not an attack, it is an observation). If you don't like MWO then you should not play it, possibly give it a break and come back when CW launches.

[Tickdoff Tank]

A 400XL with 10+6 heatsinks would dissipate 10*2+6*1.4=28.4 heat in 10 seconds. 12 additional (external) DHS would add 12*1.4=16.8, for a total of 16.8+28.4= 45.2 or 4.52 heat per second. That is pretty good, but if you are right at the overheat line it would take about 12.8 seconds to completely cool off. (This is with base heat levels from the map and no skills increasing your dissipation).

The ROF that we have with our existing weapons will outstrip your heat dissipation if you try and fire your weapons as often as possible even with DHS.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

TROWAHC, on 16 December 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

DHS where at 2.0 and they where overpowered. So they got nurfed. Also Bye bye, the game will still be here with or without you.

no they never made it to the pont where we got to test them. The devs invalidated the idea of the Beta Test phase and TOLD US it broke the game.

It was never OP, for to be OP it would have made it to the game.
Plus, the devs think anything thats OP is a good thing because people all using the same OP equipment is "diverse"

Tickdoff Tank, on 16 December 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

If you don't like MWO then you should not play it, possibly give it a break and come back when/if CW launches.

fixt as we havent had any updates since August and they lock any threads asking about it.
I think they bit off more than they could chew in the idea of this, especially with the netcode already being destroyed

[Tickdoff Tank]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 December 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

no they never made it to the pont where we got to test them. The devs invalidated the idea of the Beta Test phase and TOLD US it broke the game.

It was never OP, for to be OP it would have made it to the game.
Plus, the devs think anything thats OP is a good thing because people all using the same OP equipment is "diverse"



fixt as we havent had any updates since August and they lock any threads asking about it.
I think they bit off more than they could chew in the idea of this, especially with the netcode already being destroyed

You are contradicting yourself here, and making no sense (as usual).

I do not think that full 2.0 DHS would be OP, I think we should test them and find out. The post where Garth (or was it Paul) said they were OP was rather dubious IMO. And it is perfectly viable for the Devs to see that something is OP and change it before we get it, but I think they made a mistake in the case of DHS.

Many people think ECM is currently OP, before the system was launced the Devs held it back for 1 patch cycle because they thought it was OP (imagine how bad it would have been if they released when they thought it was OP!) But, if "everything" is OP, then that actually means that nothing is OP, that was the point of that devs post. Imbalance only exists when some equipment/weapons/mechs are performing *much* higher than intended/expected. Complaints on the forums are not a good metric for determining this.

Quote

fixt as we havent had any updates since August and they lock any threads asking about it.
I think they bit off more than they could chew in the idea of this, especially with the netcode already being destroyed

Of course they are deleteing more posts about it! They already said all they want to say about it, when they are ready to tell us more then they will. Not before. Not to make you feel better. They are keeping it quiet while it is being worked on, they do not want to announce a feature involved in the system and then find that it will not work as planned, nor do they want people dissecting their plans and raging about them on the forums for the next few months. If you can't handle that then just leave untill we know more, then you can come back and rant some more about how dissapointed you are and we can all continue to ignore your ravings.

Edited by Tickdoff Tank, 16 December 2012 - 09:09 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tickdoff Tank, on 16 December 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

You are contradicting yourself here, and making no sense (as usual).

I do not think that full 2.0 DHS would be OP, I think we should test them and find out. The post where Garth (or was it Paul) said they were OP was rather dubious IMO

-.- I SAID exactly that how again, when youre saying what I said are you making more sense than I was?
or was it just a need to insult me?

If thats the case, flame away lol

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 16 December 2012 - 09:06 AM.

[GrabbleRus]

mekabuser, on 16 December 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

We had 5% of the qq you see here on the mwll forums..

Because you've got a 0.5% of this community at best?

And OF COURSE it's easy to balance a game without a mechlab. Lol.
I don't quite get it - are you trolling or just @#$%?

[Malora Sidewinder]

mekabuser, on 16 December 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

bumprocks are rage i agree.
mwll is a perfect example of whats wrong with humanity. A superiour, by far, game that no one plays.
If there were only 200 players a night, there would be no need to play this abortion of a game till it got its act together.

But you know what? mw4 only had 50 people playing a night for all the years I played the game.

Its just that people are ignorant.
mwll, a perfectly balance combined arms game featuring mechs with all the trimmings of the BT universe with ten times the content<probably 20x> and yet people dont play because.

Theres no mechlab qq
I have to start in a light qq
Theres nothing to unlock qq.
I get beat up qq.
The animations look funny qq <newsflash, they dont look great in this game either and btw, the MECHS themselves look a lot better in mwll than here. >
Death animations are too good in mwll and they have crit nukes qq

We had 5% of the qq you see here on the mwll forums.. You know why? we all knew that the game was awesome. Everything they implemented in game over time was done well. The result, beautiful, balanced games for the most part.

150 players a night would guarantee a majority of fantastic matches..
Unfortunately, people are just too dumb to play it.
They would rather be crack heads and think that this game will one day provide them with what they are looking for.

Id like nothing more than to be proved wrong. LEts see what the next patch brings.

If it's such a good game why are there no players QQ

[Broceratops]

LL celebrate today as their player base just jumped 2%

[GrabbleRus]

Broceratops, on 16 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

LL celebrate today as their player base just jumped 2%

Wanted to say this too ))))

And ammount of QQing will increase by 30-40% at the same time )))

Edited by GrabbleRus, 16 December 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

TROWAHC, on 16 December 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

DHS where at 2.0 and they where overpowered. So they got nurfed. Also Bye bye, the game will still be here with or without you.

what lol??? idiotic.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 December 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

-.- I SAID exactly that how again, when youre saying what I said are you making more sense than I was?
or was it just a need to insult me?

If thats the case, flame away lol

Was not insulting you. Was pointing out that your rants are typically ill conceived and your communication skills make it very hard to understand what you are trying to say.

Anyway, I have said my piece and will not be returning to this thread.

[SpiralRazor]

S3dition, on 16 December 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:

Actually they ARE 2.0 right now (straight from the game files). They are 1.4 on the engine ONLY. This is because the upgrade would give you 24 free heatsinks on larger engines, which is just insane for a game with real time heat. You can easily roll with 40 heatsinks on an assault mech, which makes heat a non-factor. Double heatsinks still give a substantial advantage over regular heatsinks, especially combined with small size, high heat energy weapons.

More bs from someone who has no idea what its talking about.

Engine sinks are 2.0, mounted are 1.4. People are asking for mounted to be 2.0 as well..


you are ALREADY getting 24 HS from the larger engines bro......sigh

ignorant.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 16 December 2012 - 09:21 AM.

[Taemien]

Kobura, on 16 December 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

Good resolutions, good framerates, good design, good selections, good maps (grrr bumprocks, bottoming out my tank on treetrunks in destroyable terrain (<3))

They do have an excellent map selection. Its just too bad their server selected and not hard coded, because only two of them are played on. Some are never played on such as Clearcut and Frostbite. This is no fault of the developers, the players simply like simplicity and they're in control.

Quote

Constant rebalancing, attention to the community, no shrouding or mystery or invisible changes

There hasn't been any recent patches in months. Most recent was in July. Again no fault of the Devs, they simply don't have the manpower.

Quote

Developer-provided statistics (as scant as they are), no useless sidegrades (double heatsinks)

Engine heatsinks are 10 period, cannot add more, cannot make into double heatsinks. Use a Vulture Prime or Madcat Prime and see the heat issues they have. This is a dev fault, I still have no idea why they did this.

Quote

No throw'n'see'what'sticks balancing

2 UAC20 Loki and ATMs in their first implementation comes to mind. They've been fixed though, but that was a crazy set of matches before they were fixed.

Quote

Forever free purchased once (this from a Founder)

MWLL costs whatever you can get Crysis Warhead for. MWO can be entirely free.

Quote

I'm not revoking my package to hedge my bets against the game pulling out of whatever spiral its' in, but seeing


Q: Can we please at least try DHS at 2.0? It doesn't seem like much of a boost to lights who usually benefit mostly from the engine heat sinks, but heavies and assaults that use big energy weapons need the boost. [Wolfways]
A: No. (snip explanation)

My confidence was shattered. So here we've an outcry to try something and we're told No... so, we're not betatesters, we're egotesters, who happen to crowdfind bugs... I'm not in the habit of boosting ego artificially, so, seeya when they realize what an 'old-style open beta' is about (crowdsourcing ideas...)

DHS were already tested in an alpha build. It was blatantly so OP there they didn't let it go Beta. Search around and you'll see that players have put together charts and spreadsheets to see the damage outputs of energy boats. They weren't just .6 higher, it was close to double or triple. You have to understand that heat dissipates overtime which means the values affect their performance on a curve and not in a linear fashion.

I find it ironic that you would leave a game because of DHS issues to a game that has WORSE DHS issues. They don't even have DHS in the engines and they've done the same thing with their community, just "no."

Also take it from my experience. The netcode affects MWLL far worse then it does in MWO. Once a match goes over 16 players, only lasers work. ACs, Missiles, Gauss will no longer function. Lag shooting won't help either, they will simply cease to deliver damage. And keep in mind there is 400kph airborne assets with enough firepower to kill 4-5 mechs in a single pass. Their bombs will still hit, but AA weapons (AC2s and AC5s will not work on them once the netcode issue kicks in). Again this is no fault of the devs, but the engine which they do not have access to modifying directly.

[GrabbleRus]

SpiralRazor, on 16 December 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

More bs from someone who has no idea what its talking about.

Engine sinks are 2.0, mounted are 1.4. People are asking for mounted to be 2.0 as well..


you are ALREADY getting 24 HS from the larger engines bro......sigh

ignorant.

Total bs. It's you who has no idea. So the author of respected MWO Mechbay-Mechlab-Statlab is wrong and you're right?... Sigh

[SpiralRazor]

Yes, actually.. Unless they devs ninja reversed there implementation....yes, he is wrong.

Try doing some research before you post.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 16 December 2012 - 09:48 AM.

[Ghogiel]

lol Vulture prime works dude. It was seen to in the last patch or something.

Also16 player issues in MWLL. check what the player response to the server admin polls on this issue. It works fine for most people until about 24 players.

AC2s and 5s are using bullet code :/

[Kobura]

I forgot the thing that drove the nail in the coffin, actually, the one thing that made me eyepop

I can run MW:LL at 1080 with a little flash'n'gitz, it's effing glorious at high enough framerate that I literally didn't even realize it until now, that it was visually smooth

I can't run MWO at 1024x768, windowed or not, with my desktop resolution also turned down to 1440x900, with nothing, getting above 15fps, with occasional non-crash seizes

Like I said, I'm not fleeing never returning crying into the desert from MWO. The Community Warfare aspect is something that's never been well done before, in my experience, and frankly I'm excited to see what they deign to put forth


But like I've said, for a long time, ask any of my contemporaries. "Yea, it'll probably work out, but the right-now really sucks."

[Noth]

GrabbleRus, on 16 December 2012 - 09:42 AM, said:

Total bs. It's you who has no idea. So the author of respected MWO Mechbay-Mechlab-Statlab is wrong and you're right?... Sigh

Yep he is wrong, if you search there is math proving that the engine heatsinks are 2.0 and teh outside ones being 1.4. On top of this devs state such is so.