90 replies to this topic

[Prophet of Entropy]

its simple, if you have a bad match dont get a chance to do much lose but live you shouldnt make much money.

if you have a great match kill most of the other team yourself but lose cause you have to walk onto the cap to stop it you should still get a hefty reward.

im tired of matches where me and a buddy each have 3-5 times the damage done then the rest of our team combined and not being rewared for carrying 6 people to a win.

but they also need to add the ability to re-enter matches in progress, CTD, hud bugs, 4fps bugs are not the players fault.

Edited by Prophet of Entropy, 16 December 2012 - 08:20 AM.

[Belorion]

M A L I C E, on 16 December 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Well, the gentleman I quoted had a perfectly valid example before I made my "general sweeping statement" so please respond to his concern first, and THEN I'll chime in with about 3 or 4 specific other ways that performace-only discourages certain perfectly useful and valid playstyles that don't have countable metrics, and ruins the strategic and tactical opportunities in game, and is overall an idiotic and lazy solution that just encourages everyone to brawl brawl brawl.

DogmeatX, on 16 December 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

Damage is not the be all and end all measurement of contribution. There have already been at least two posts explaining why.. it's a pity some people can't seem to see beyond that.

It is not just newbie players who could end up worse off because of that. Example: your team is pushing up and about to get into a fight then your base cap goes off. You can "volunteer" to turn around and head back and risk basically turning up/chasing off the quick capper and run around near base keeping them away, then end up with next to no damage done at the end of the match.

Should you have got next to no reward for that? Because if you thought "meh I'm not going to turn around I get more reward for staying here and shooting stuff.." you could have lost the match because nobody else turned around either.

That's not actually an uncommon scenario and it's not just down to newbies.

Everyone is just guessing still though, that's all well and good they explain taking the rewards away to combat AFK'ers but why was there no mention of what will replace it..? Whatever it is I just hope it doesn't end up taking away things like the above.

Belorion, on 16 December 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

Bonus for tag and narc. Bonus for targeting an enemy. Bonus for time on cap. Bonus for time stopping cap. There are plenty of bonuses for non-brawler types.

If its worth doing there is a way they can give a bonus for it.

There are already bonuses for many things that are not damaged related.

[BoomDog]

Teralitha, on 16 December 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

Sometimes you have to just choose the lesser of 2 evils.

Sorry, but there's far and away more people crashing to desktop before the match starts, ctd after the match starts, blackscreen bug, yellow screen bug, no mini map bug, rainbow map bug, no friendly/enemy icons bug, FPS bug ...than there are people afk/suicide farming.

If they have a guy going 5 games in a row AFK, then fine, nail him. I'm not sure why so many people are convinced people are farming when there's so many game ending bugs in this game.

[JPsi]

I gotta say, considering many players are getting all kinds of crashes up to 10-20% of the games they play. Is it really surprising we have so many "AFKs"? 16 players per game, chance of having games without said Crashes and bug outs on at least one player is rather low.
The farmers aren't the problem, the instability is.
Solid data on this has been rather hard to come by. TBH, I doubt we are really going to see much of an improvement from this. When bugs are fixed is when we'll see the improvement.

I only see this as hurting the legit players. Theres very good reason other F2P games such as LoL avoid giving rewards for any performance in game other than win/loss. High performance usually ends out rewarding stat chasing over any teamplay.

Edited by JPsi, 16 December 2012 - 09:19 AM.

[elbloom]

but in LoL you are forced to play the whole match, you can´t just disconnect and start the next one... it just doesn´t compare.

MWO should imitate the LoL matchmaking in every way, or not at all. not some ***** donky stuff that encourages suiciding and afking. Damage-based rewards please, yesterday !

edit: btw. like 90% of trial jenners are afking or suiciding or not landing a single shot. PLEASE don´t encourage that behaviour by rewarding it !!!
If it´s a noob trying the game out he´ll get the 25 first matches bonus, but after the 25 matches he´s gotta dish out some damage !

Edited by elbloom, 16 December 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[Windies]

Chemie, on 16 December 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

Oh, that link. I thought maybe Paul made a post.

Well, no AFK
No suicide rush

not bad.

But I guess if there is a cap bonus then ECM raven fast cap is the new CB farm approach. if they nerf cap bonus, then things get interesting. However, how they dole out CB will matter (like all kills? damage? rated XP ladder?)

BTW, am I the only one feeling like they will be paying out NET LESS after the new ecomony? (i.e remove R&R, remove win/loss. The capture mode says 18,000 CB payout....if that is it, dont even come to the forums after that)

That's my main worry is that they're doing this to create a very stringent economy in order to sell premium time.

[Belorion]

M A L I C E, on 16 December 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

Ooooo-Kay.

So then, what's the bonus they could give in the instance you quoted?

The "turning back to defend the base against a light that runs away and keeps you out of the rest of the match" bonus?

Go ahead genius, let's hear you explain this one...

Targeting, damage (presumably you are hitting them), stopping the cap(ing)

Cause if you are not, then they will be hitting you, back to the getting damaged.

Edited by Belorion, 16 December 2012 - 12:04 PM.

[Belkor]

Volume, on 16 December 2012 - 04:44 AM, said:

Honestly, I see a lot of problems with this. If everything is performance-based (since it won't be just for showing up) this punishes people who enter the match and end up having to deal with a hud bug. Obviously it adversely affects player performance, and therefore will affect their pay. I do like performance based rewards, and it is a good way to stop rewarding AFK players, but when the game is so unstable that players cannot perform to the best of their ability, either due to FPS issues, or more glaring flaws like not even being able to see their heat meter or armor and such, they shouldn't lose money. Sure they aren't able to help their team as much, but it's not their fault they crashed to desktop or whatever. Spotting, assists, kills, damage done, etc, should all be much higher, but how can you differentiate between the total damage done of an afk player, a player who has a bad game (gets cored without doing much damage), or a player who is the victim of sync-drop eight-mans (sometimes get focused down before getting barely any damage off)?

Especially for new players, I think this might make things difficult for them. I know they're getting a 25-match C-Bill bonus, but if it's a bonus of a lower total, how does that help them? I'm concerned because obviously the damage potential of a trial 'Mech does not match up with 'real' 'Mechs...How can a new player be competitive in damage done compared to 36SRM cats? I know I just got 420 damage done in a game with my Commando that has nothing on it except a large laser and ECM, so technically I know the damage *potential* for any 'Mech can be decent, but it was mostly because people just ignored me and I got to blast their backs. Most players won't have that experience, let alone new players, and if they need to perform really well to get anywhere because the "played match" bonus is mostly gone, then they aren't going to be sticking around.

Not trolling, not complaining, just a real concern.

Customizable trial mechs would be a solution to matching them against customized mechs.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

hm...
put in ecm to neuter pl that like to play long range
make game performance based as far as the pay goes.

so only ppl that like knife fighting get full pay.
well pretty obvious they hate support players now lol

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Hmmm stopping an exploit, or rewarding better players for doing better, and giving worse players incentive to do better...

...hmmm....


...hmmm tough choice. The only difficult choice here is that half the afks/DC'd players are the clients fault for being so ******* unstable.

Edited by mwhighlander, 16 December 2012 - 12:45 PM.

[ManDaisy]

Things will get better. Ultimately down the line they will fix the stability issue. This is the right choice in my opinion.

[Elandyll]

I just wonder ... how will a PUG group that get curbstomped by a premade 8-0 and inflicted little to almost no damage get any money? According to what factor? Mech moved away from base? Did 10dmg to opponent before taking a 40pt Alpha to the cockpit? Turned around before being targeted by 4 Streakcats simultaneously?

It'll be interesting to find out.

[One Medic Army]

I suggest capping repair&rearm to the amount made on the most recent match with the mech.

[JohnnyC]

I have the distinct impression that the effort to "punish" AFK'ers (which I think are actually quite rare and the vast majority are people suffering from CTD bugs/etc) is going to punish everyone.

It remains to be seen how this will pan out, but I do not have high hopes that this is going to fix much of anything.

At least I've managed to curb the amount of CTDs that I've suffered from... (reinstalled the game to a platter drive instead of on my SSD drive and I keep everything on "low" in the video settings, avoid making any changes to my mechs and if I do, I restart the game before taking the newly modified mech out for a match).

They've really talked up this next patch... I'm lowering my expectations so I will be less disappointed when it hits on the 18th.

[Walk]

zverofaust, on 16 December 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

What about players who just aren't that good, or have crappy computers preventing them from doing anything more than double digit amounts of damage? Will their repair bills end up costing more than they make? What about the really good players, who do 1000 damage a match with 4 kills (like me)?

No one has a computer crappy enough to net only double digit amounts of damage. I have an RL friend who can easily accumulate respectable damage playing on about 10 fps and having severe ping issues due to a ****** network card. If you are constantly doing only double digits worth of damage, having ****** computer is not an excuse.

[Teralitha]

BoomDog, on 16 December 2012 - 09:14 AM, said:

Sorry, but there's far and away more people crashing to desktop before the match starts, ctd after the match starts, blackscreen bug, yellow screen bug, no mini map bug, rainbow map bug, no friendly/enemy icons bug, FPS bug ...than there are people afk/suicide farming.

If they have a guy going 5 games in a row AFK, then fine, nail him. I'm not sure why so many people are convinced people are farming when there's so many game ending bugs in this game.

Right so... keep rewarding the players who do nothing... got it.

[Purlana]

Cap race = No / little credits, for the slow assults?


More reasons to pilot light mechs...

Teralitha, on 16 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Right so... keep rewarding the players who do nothing... got it.

So people should lose credits because of bugs PGI can't fix?

Edited by Purlana, 16 December 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[Inviticus]

There is no way a performance based system will be balanced and fair for all. Each mech has a different purpose on the battlefield. How are they going to equally quantify and reward each player properly? I fear that only damage dealt and kills will provide the bulk of the reward which will only push players into an even fewer selection of mechs.

This change is a bad idea.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Purlana, on 16 December 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

Cap race = No / little credits, for the slow assults?


More reasons to pilot light mechs...






So people should lose credits because of bugs PGI can't fix?

apparently so

[Farix]

I don't like this at all. There have been plenty of times I do almost no damage do to either the match turning into a cap race or I end up being the first "victim" of the other teams coordinated fire. If I can't make C-Bills just for participating in matches, then I may as well quite playing MWO. This system punishes poor and mediocre players as well as be a disincentive for new players to sticking around. But then, I get the feeling that there are a lot of L33T players that like newbies and players like me to "go away".