90 replies to this topic

[Inviticus]

Farix, on 16 December 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

I don't like this at all. There have been plenty of times I do almost no damage do to either the match turning into a cap race or I end up being the first "victim" of the other teams coordinated fire. If I can't make C-Bills just for participating in matches, then I may as well quite playing MWO. This system punishes poor and mediocre players as well as be a disincentive for new players to sticking around. But then, I get the feeling that there are a lot of L33T players that like newbies and players like me to "go away".

Can't say I disagree. It'll also create a situation where "better" players will gain faster improvements and more powerful mechs which will make it more difficult for new players and "lesser skilled" players who will lose more and more matches due to the disparity in equipment and so forth. It is not good design.

[FearNotDeath]

This change is fantastic I've suffered enough 1k+ dmg done losses I'll finally get payed. Performance based rewards is the only way to go.

[Fabe]

Farix, on 16 December 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

I don't like this at all. There have been plenty of times I do almost no damage do to either the match turning into a cap race or I end up being the first "victim" of the other teams coordinated fire. If I can't make C-Bills just for participating in matches, then I may as well quite playing MWO. This system punishes poor and mediocre players as well as be a disincentive for new players to sticking around. But then, I get the feeling that there are a lot of L33T players that like newbies and players like me to "go away".

Inviticus, on 16 December 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

Can't say I disagree. It'll also create a situation where "better" players will gain faster improvements and more powerful mechs which will make it more difficult for new players and "lesser skilled" players who will lose more and more matches due to the disparity in equipment and so forth. It is not good design.

I agree, Those of us who take part in the game but don't dominate should not be punished for not being "l333T". The afk farming problem need to be addressed but this is not the way to do it. As for those of you who are "l33T" you already earn more for kill/damage bonuses so what more do you need? I would however be open to the idea of a performance bonus for the top 3 players in a match though in addition to the current win/loss payout.

[FearNotDeath]

Fabe, on 16 December 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

I agree, Those of us who take part in the game but don't dominate should not be punished for not being "l333T". The afk farming problem need to be addressed but this is not the way to do it. As for those of you who are "l33T" you already earn more for kill/damage bonuses so what more do you need? I would however be open to the idea of a performance bonus for the top 3 players in a match though in addition to the current win/loss payout.

You are not being punished you are just not getting a reward for being great not everyone deserves a medal, this isn't a negative. What you should be complaining for is an ELO system so you play like skilled individuals where you will be able to perform better, instead of being against people out of your league.

[iller]

Taizan, on 16 December 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

AFK = not contributing to a match. If you contribute (do damage, blow off components, help capping, kill enemies, spot etc.) you should still receive a nice income.

The only one of these that a Trial Mech user can do is the Spotting. ....so where's this leave Trial players at?

[Fabe]

FearNotDeath, on 16 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

You are not being punished you are just not getting a reward for being great not everyone deserves a medal, this isn't a negative. What you should be complaining for is an ELO system so you play like skilled individuals where you will be able to perform better, instead of being against people out of your league.

Playing against equally skilled opponents would be great but some are still going to do better then the rest so the ones at the bottom are still going to end up with too little pay. Since we're suppose to be Mercenaries The way I see it the win/loss payout is a half now retainer with the rest being payed on the successful completion of the mission, the rest is just bonuses. under the new system we're now mercs who work for free with some of us getting tips for doing better.

[Naeron66]

Taizan, on 16 December 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

AFK = not contributing to a match. If you contribute (do damage, blow off components, help capping, kill enemies, spot etc.) you should still receive a nice income.

I put a fairly simple change to the payout system in the suggestions forum a few weeks back. It would have meant AFKers get almost no money and that those who contribute would get a decent payout as long as they contributed a bit. It also weighted damage done to be more significant in lighter mechs than assaults.

I dread to think what PGI have come up with.

[Teralitha]

Purlana, on 16 December 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

Cap race = No / little credits, for the slow assults?


More reasons to pilot light mechs...






So people should lose credits because of bugs PGI can't fix?

What bug?

[Teralitha]

Fabe, on 16 December 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

I agree, Those of us who take part in the game but don't dominate should not be punished for not being "l333T". The afk farming problem need to be addressed but this is not the way to do it. As for those of you who are "l33T" you already earn more for kill/damage bonuses so what more do you need? I would however be open to the idea of a performance bonus for the top 3 players in a match though in addition to the current win/loss payout.

You seem to forget that good players are losing cbills too. You also seem to forget this is a skill based game... why should there be a reward for sucking? You also seem to forget that exploiters are making you lose cbills when your team loses because of them.

So really... you have nothing to complain about. If your not good at the game... then practice. Practice makes perfect.

[Khanahar]

Honestly, I worry about this for new players. Yellow and black screen bugs, which I get my fair share of, should be counted as AFKs if they don't participate. Although I have with both; my last 2 yellow screen bug matches netted 3 kills with patient play and carefully figuring out who the bad guys are (Rshift F11 gets rid of the bug, but leaves you without a HUD.) Targeting with arms is tricky, but doable if you know your 'mech pretty well. Loss of minimap and IFF hurt pretty bad tho. Streak lockons work fine, but LRM lockons pretty useless as you have no idea where indirect fire can hit things.

Black screen bug sucks worse, but if you have a friend playing next to you who gets blown up before you get taken out AFK at base, you can still be useful. Will admit that's pretty niche though, and you have to deal with double lag, so shooting lights is rather unlikely. Dropped an AS7 once that way though.

[Fabe]

Teralitha, on 16 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

You seem to forget that good players are losing cbills too. You also seem to forget this is a skill based game... why should there be a reward for sucking? You also seem to forget that exploiters are making you lose cbills when your team loses because of them.

So really... you have nothing to complain about. If your not good at the game... then practice. Practice makes perfect.

That is another problem players have been reporting losses even when they do win and place at the top,under the new system things will be even worst. As for the skill part I have no problem with the better players earning more but the rest of us should be able to slowly scrape by ,not loss everything after a few bad games.

[Hawkwings]

I predict GREAT AND TERRIBLE rage over this system when it is implemented. Most of it will be over situations like the following:

I am in my brawler Atlas, on Caustic. I am on the front lines for my team, and my role is to tank damage, draw attention,and do damage to things that are close. All of a sudden, The entire enemy team rushes over the caldera! I dutifully stand and take the brunt of the attack, so that the rest of my team can start focus firing and killing the enemy. Unfortunately, the enemy is also good at focus fire, and I barely get in two salvos of fire before I am blown apart. Total damage done: roughly 150. But, thanks in part to what I did, my team wins the game handily.

What does the game server see? I died, have one assist, and did 150 damage. That's bad pubbie stats right there. I am paid 30k for my efforts and have a repair bill of 70k. I think everyone would agree that this is not an acceptable reward.

Unfortunately, I don't think the system PGI will implement can handle these sorts of "sacrifice yourself for the team" matches. In any event, when I play solo pug matches for grinding, I'll be sure to stand way back, steal kills, and never ever ever act in the best interest of the team. Since winning and losing apparently will not matter, why bother?

[Fabe]

Hawkwings, on 16 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

I predict GREAT AND TERRIBLE rage over this system when it is implemented. Most of it will be over situations like the following:

I am in my brawler Atlas, on Caustic. I am on the front lines for my team, and my role is to tank damage, draw attention,and do damage to things that are close. All of a sudden, The entire enemy team rushes over the caldera! I dutifully stand and take the brunt of the attack, so that the rest of my team can start focus firing and killing the enemy. Unfortunately, the enemy is also good at focus fire, and I barely get in two salvos of fire before I am blown apart. Total damage done: roughly 150. But, thanks in part to what I did, my team wins the game handily.

What does the game server see? I died, have one assist, and did 150 damage. That's bad pubbie stats right there. I am paid 30k for my efforts and have a repair bill of 70k. I think everyone would agree that this is not an acceptable reward.

Unfortunately, I don't think the system PGI will implement can handle these sorts of "sacrifice yourself for the team" matches. In any event, when I play solo pug matches for grinding, I'll be sure to stand way back, steal kills, and never ever ever act in the best interest of the team. Since winning and losing apparently will not matter, why bother?

Another great reason why the new system is bad for a game that is suppose to focus on team work. Now it's going to encourage a every man for himself attitude since win or lose, individual achievement is now what will earn you the most cash.

Edited by Fabe, 16 December 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[The Cheese]

I made another thread which is related to this topic, but it'd probably be better off as part of this thread, since this seems to be where the conversation is.

http://mwomercs.com/...h-comm-warfare/

Content:

The Cheese, on 16 December 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

So we've got this proposed plan to deter players from AFK farming. That is, to give players no or less rewards unless they actually do something. On the surface, this seems like a reasonable idea, however there was always an idea in place which would do that job nicely.

Read through Dev Blog 1 http://mwomercs.com/...munity-warfare/

Pay particular attention to the following section:

InnerSphereNews, on 07 December 2011 - 04:00 PM, said:

Loyalty Points and Ranks

Loyalty Points are used to determine how devoted you have been to a particular faction. The more loyal you are, the greater the reward. LPs are earned by engaging in activities that further the goals of a particular faction.

For Example: Killing an enemy faction player would earn 1 LP.

Loyalty Points decay over time if a player is not active. Participating in negative actions can also decrease LPs.

Faction Players

As a Faction Player, loyalty points are earned by playing and winning matches. As the player accumulates loyalty points, they will gain a military faction rank at pre-determined loyalty point totals. If a player loses LPs by decay or negative actions, they will be demoted.

Gaining ranks earns special privileges and items, including membership to special units, unit skins, and bonuses to C-Bills and XP. These are all non-permanent and subject to the player maintaining a certain rank level. At the highest possible levels, players can begin to influence their faction by controlling which planets are targeted in territory conquest.

It appears that there was already a plan in place that would do exactly what this band-aid fix is supposed to do. That is, to reward team players and deter farmers and TKers.

I understand that it's probably going to be a long time before we see proper faction or mercenary corp warfare, but it seems to me that now, as an AFK and TK deterrent, would have been a perfect time to test out the original plan. It could have been part of a stepped process to test a real reward system. First step, implement and test the reward system as described in the dev blog (minus the factions). Second step, introduce the factions. Third step, combine the two and pray.

So, my question is this: Why was the original plan sidelined for the fix that we're now presented with?

It was suggested that LP would actually be a seperate form of currency which could be used to buy special goods (rather than a player rating system), which would make pretty much everything I've said above completely wrong. If anyone can confirm which it is, it would be much appreciated.

Edited by The Cheese, 16 December 2012 - 05:22 PM.

[Khanahar]

Why not just make it so the win/loss rewards remain but are only applied if you earn some minimum amount of XP? Like, 1 would be enough to get the AFKers.

Of course, that wouldn't help with suicides.

While we're at, can we auto-ban people who do weapons damage to teammates in the first 30 seconds of the game?

[Kristov Kerensky]

The Cheese, the LP system is only for use with Houses, it's a favor system and you get things from the Houses for the LP based on whether you are part of a House, a Merc Company member or a Lone Wolf(lone wolf gets nothing from the LP system actually). It's not used for anything else so that's why it's not being implemented right now.

As for the loss of rewards for AFK/farmers, what's the problem? If you don't actively contribute, why should you get ANY reward? Just because you hit Launch doesn't mean you should automagically get cbills and xp.

And yes, removing rewards for doing nothing at all during a match is a perfectly good counter to the farmers. If you've got a problem with it, my first guess is going to be that you farm, followed by a second guess that you farm, and a third guess that..well..you probably farm, so your opinion on the subject is not worth wasting time reading.

[Farix]

Khanahar, on 16 December 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Why not just make it so the win/loss rewards remain but are only applied if you earn some minimum amount of XP? Like, 1 would be enough to get the AFKers.

The problem with that is that it that you don't earn XP if you use a trial mech, thus handicapping new players.

[Fabe]

Khanahar, on 16 December 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Why not just make it so the win/loss rewards remain but are only applied if you earn some minimum amount of XP? Like, 1 would be enough to get the AFKers.

Of course, that wouldn't help with suicides.

While we're at, can we auto-ban people who do weapons damage to teammates in the first 30 seconds of the game?

That's another thing,this new system might get rid of AFK'ers but what about suicide'ers . couldn't they just charge out do some quick damage,die then start another game another in a different trial mech for longer farming time? And no,locking all trial mechs after a death is not a good solution since it will be too punishing to the new player who will die quickly and often while just learning the game.

[White Bear 84]

Hmmm alot of negative posts, yet no one has actually seen what the change is.. ..perhaps its better to wait until they change the bonus's and then give feedback

My thoughts are they will find a suitable way to compensate for taking out the WIN/LOSS credits.. ..highly doubt that PGI are going to do something that will ruin the whole economy..

Of course, if im wrong then we can always voice our opinions and get it fixed...

[Farix]

Kristov Kerensky, on 16 December 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

As for the loss of rewards for AFK/farmers, what's the problem? If you don't actively contribute, why should you get ANY reward? Just because you hit Launch doesn't mean you should automagically get cbills and xp.

Define "contribute". Is someone who is a hapless victim of combined fire contributing? Is someone who acts as a meat-shield contributing? Is someone who is a poor player and isn't able to land any hits contributing? Is someone who is on a loosing end of a base-cap rush contributing? Is someone who is new to the game and is clueless as to what to do after being thrown into the shark tank contributing? Why should they all be published for the actions of a small group?

Quote

And yes, removing rewards for doing nothing at all during a match is a perfectly good counter to the farmers. If you've got a problem with it, my first guess is going to be that you farm, followed by a second guess that you farm, and a third guess that..well..you probably farm, so your opinion on the subject is not worth wasting time reading.

And I would guess that you are an elitist who doesn't want to play with new or mediocre players.