156 replies to this topic

[Hodo]

William McNab, on 25 July 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

Ok - so to take the pilot and terrain out of the mix ....
I ran several simulations on MW4 Mercs - Level 9 BOT combat. (I sim MW4 Merc battles way too much).

Ran all the sims with a Warhammer - Std PPC, and switched out the M-Pulse for Regular M Las. Put the extra tonnage into Heat sinks vs Tenchi (65 tons) - with LRM 15, Lrg Las, 2xMed Las, Srm -2 and 2xMG. Maxed armor and heatsinks with remaining tonnage.

I pretty much stopped paying attention after the "I ran several simulations on MW4 Mercs."

First of all that game doesnt have any of the actual damage values or anywhere close to actual numbers from the Battletech game. And the TDR-5S has 3 Med Lasers. And the WHM-6R has 18 Heat Sinks, and your lacking the Small Lasers, and Machine Guns and possibly the SRM6. The other problem is MW4 Mercs doesnt take minimum range into account.

[William McNab]

Hodo, on 25 July 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

I pretty much stopped paying attention after the "I ran several simulations on MW4 Mercs."

First of all that game doesnt have any of the actual damage values or anywhere close to actual numbers from the Battletech game. And the TDR-5S has 3 Med Lasers. And the WHM-6R has 18 Heat Sinks, and your lacking the Small Lasers, and Machine Guns and possibly the SRM6. The other problem is MW4 Mercs doesnt take minimum range into account.

Had the MGs, no small lasers, but did have the SRM 6.

I could have sat down and played the TT with original Warhammer and T-bolt chassis. But that would have taken more time.

Just having some sim and bot fun. Are my results based on pure mech cannon .... nope. But what ever.

OH - you did give me an idea though.

Run the sims using Megamech - real mechanics and variables. Proper weapon systems, heat, armor, and modifiers.

Thanks for dissing the MW4 sims, I will try some sims with Megamech.

[William McNab]

Megamech battle report:
Round 1 No combat
Round 2:
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
Large Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 11 : hits CT
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 8 damage to CT. 14 Armor remaining.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 9, rolls 8 : misses.
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 5, rolls 4 : misses.
SRM 2 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 9, rolls 6 : misses.
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer)
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 7, rolls 8 : hits LA
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to LA. 10 Armor remaining.
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 7, rolls 10 : hits LT
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to LT. 14 Armor remaining.
SRM 6 at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 9, rolls 9 : 6 missile(s) hit.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to CT. 28 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RA. 18 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to LT. 12 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RT. 22 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RL. 27 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to CT. 26 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (20+ damage).
The base target is 5 [5 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (5 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (20+ damage)); needs 6, rolls 11 : succeeds.

Round 3
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 12 : hits RA
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to RA. 15 Armor remaining.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 9 : hits RL
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to RL. 2 Armor remaining.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 10 : hits RT
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to RT. 12 Armor remaining.
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 6, rolls 5 : misses.
SRM 2 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 9 : 2 missile(s) hit.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 2 damage to CT. 12 Armor remaining.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 2 damage to CT (critical). 10 Armor remaining.
Critical hit on CT. Roll is 10; 2 locations.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Engine.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Standard Gyro.
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer)
Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 12 : hits RT
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 5 damage to RT. 17 Armor remaining.
SRM 6 at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 4 : misses.
Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 9 : hits RL
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 5 damage to RL. 22 Armor remaining.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (gyro hit).
The base target is 5 [5 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (5 (Base piloting skill) + 3 (gyro hit)); needs 8, rolls 12 : succeeds.

Round 4:
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 6, rolls 8 : 9 missile(s) hit.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to RA. 10 Armor remaining.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 4 damage to CT. 6 Armor remaining.

Warhammer did not fire

Round 5:
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 8, rolls 7 : misses.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 8, rolls 4 : misses.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 8, rolls 5 : misses.
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 5 : misses.
SRM 2 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 8, rolls 5 : misses.
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer)
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 5 : misses.
Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 8, rolls 8 : hits RA
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 5 damage to RA. 13 Armor remaining.
Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 8, rolls 7 : misses.

Round 6:
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer)
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 5 : misses.
SRM 6 at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 8, rolls 12 : 3 missile(s) hit.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RT. 15 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RA. 11 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to LA. 8 Armor remaining.
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
Large Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 5, rolls 6 : hits CT
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 8 damage to CT. Armor destroyed, 20 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on CT. Roll is 11; 2 locations.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Machine Gun Ammo (200).
*** Machine Gun Ammo EXPLODES! 400 DAMAGE! ***
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) suffers catastrophic damage, but the autoeject system was engaged.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) must make a piloting skill check (landing in clear terrain).
Needs 4 [5 (ejecting) + 1 (automatic ejection) - 2 (landing in clear terrain)], rolls 4 : succeeds.
The pilot ejects safely!
*** Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) DESTROYED by ejection! ***
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 400 damage to CT. <<<SECTION DESTROYED>>>,
Critical hit on CT. Roll is 8; 1 location.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Engine.

<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Standard Gyro.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 5 : misses.
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 4 : misses.
SRM 2 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 9 : 1 missile(s) hit.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 2 damage to RA. 8 Armor remaining.

[The Jackle]

As a pilot of the Warhammer, since my introduction to Battletech 20+ years ago, I have total confidence.in the Warhammers ability to take down a Tbolt most of the time. Yes, terrain will play a major role as it does in every combat, but I think GrimJim said it best: it comes down to the pilots fighting style. With the Warhammer, you just need to be aggressive to get the mech to the red line 9-12, then cycle patiently through each weapon as you hold your ground and let the Tbolt Close. A Tbolt cannot stand up to that level of Punishment and the pilot incurs all penalties for movement. As it closes with the Warhammer 6R, the Tbot pays more in armor.

[The Jackle]

William McNab, on 26 July 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

Megamech battle report:
Round 1 No combat
Round 2:
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
Large Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 11 : hits CT
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 8 damage to CT. 14 Armor remaining.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 9, rolls 8 : misses.
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 5, rolls 4 : misses.
SRM 2 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 9, rolls 6 : misses.
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer)
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 7, rolls 8 : hits LA
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to LA. 10 Armor remaining.
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 7, rolls 10 : hits LT
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to LT. 14 Armor remaining.
SRM 6 at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 9, rolls 9 : 6 missile(s) hit.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to CT. 28 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RA. 18 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to LT. 12 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RT. 22 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RL. 27 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to CT. 26 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (20+ damage).
The base target is 5 [5 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (5 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (20+ damage)); needs 6, rolls 11 : succeeds.

Round 3
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 12 : hits RA
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to RA. 15 Armor remaining.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 9 : hits RL
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to RL. 2 Armor remaining.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 10 : hits RT
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to RT. 12 Armor remaining.
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 6, rolls 5 : misses.
SRM 2 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 9 : 2 missile(s) hit.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 2 damage to CT. 12 Armor remaining.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 2 damage to CT (critical). 10 Armor remaining.
Critical hit on CT. Roll is 10; 2 locations.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Engine.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Standard Gyro.
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer)
Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 12 : hits RT
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 5 damage to RT. 17 Armor remaining.
SRM 6 at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 4 : misses.
Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 9 : hits RL
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 5 damage to RL. 22 Armor remaining.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (gyro hit).
The base target is 5 [5 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (5 (Base piloting skill) + 3 (gyro hit)); needs 8, rolls 12 : succeeds.

Round 4:
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 6, rolls 8 : 9 missile(s) hit.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to RA. 10 Armor remaining.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 4 damage to CT. 6 Armor remaining.

Warhammer did not fire

Round 5:
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 8, rolls 7 : misses.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 8, rolls 4 : misses.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 8, rolls 5 : misses.
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 5 : misses.
SRM 2 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 8, rolls 5 : misses.
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer)
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 5 : misses.
Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 8, rolls 8 : hits RA
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 5 damage to RA. 13 Armor remaining.
Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 8, rolls 7 : misses.

Round 6:
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer)
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 5 : misses.
SRM 6 at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 8, rolls 12 : 3 missile(s) hit.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RT. 15 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to RA. 11 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to LA. 8 Armor remaining.
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt)
Large Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 5, rolls 6 : hits CT
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 8 damage to CT. Armor destroyed, 20 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on CT. Roll is 11; 2 locations.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Machine Gun Ammo (200).
*** Machine Gun Ammo EXPLODES! 400 DAMAGE! ***
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) suffers catastrophic damage, but the autoeject system was engaged.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) must make a piloting skill check (landing in clear terrain).
Needs 4 [5 (ejecting) + 1 (automatic ejection) - 2 (landing in clear terrain)], rolls 4 : succeeds.
The pilot ejects safely!
*** Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) DESTROYED by ejection! ***
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 400 damage to CT. <<<SECTION DESTROYED>>>,
Critical hit on CT. Roll is 8; 1 location.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Engine.

<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Standard Gyro.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 5 : misses.
LRM 15 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 4 : misses.
SRM 2 at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 9 : 1 missile(s) hit.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 2 damage to RA. 8 Armor remaining.

Ah yes! Never forget that 400 point Ammo Explosion...

[William McNab]

Here are the other 3 runs.

Battle #1: Thunderbolt destroys Warhammer – CT critical causing massive explosion.
Battle #2: Round 22 Warhammer Destroyed Thunderbolt:
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6D (Warhammer)
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 7, rolls 8 : hits RA
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to RA.
10 damage transfers to RT.
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to RT. 4 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on RT. Roll is 10; 2 locations.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on +LRM 15.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on SRM 2 Ammo (39).
*** SRM 2 Ammo EXPLODES! 156 DAMAGE! ***
Battle #3: Warhammer destroyed Thunderbolt
Round 9:
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-6K (Warhammer)
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 7, rolls 7 : hits CT
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to CT. 20 Armor remaining.
Particle Cannon at Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt); needs 7, rolls 8 : hits HD
Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to HD. <<<SECTION DESTROYED>>>,
*** Thunderbolt TDR-5S (Thunderbolt) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on HD. Roll is 6; no effect.

Battle #4: Thunderbolt vs Warhammer
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-5SE (Thunderbolt)
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 3, rolls 9 : hits (using Left Side table) RL
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to RL. Armor destroyed, 12 Internal Structure remaining
Critical hit on RL. Roll is 9; 1 location.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Upper Leg.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 3, rolls 2 : misses.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer); needs 3, rolls 4 : hits (using Left Side table) LA
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to LA.
5 damage transfers to LT.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to LT.
5 damage transfers to CT.
Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to CT. <<<SECTION DESTROYED>>>,
*** Warhammer WHM-6R (Warhammer) DESTROYED by damage! ***

Edited by William McNab, 28 July 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[DeathDealer 6]

Hey Will,

Have your tried it with the Eridani Lighthorse Variant (available at various different times) Thunderbolt yet? Might change the results a little. Lighthorse variant Thunderbolt might have a little better heat profile then the regular T-Bolt and better maneuverability because of the jump jets. Could make a difference against a non-jumpable Mech like the Warhammer and skew the results a little.

Either way though I bet it comes down to playing style and who has the better pilot ability in the match up tho. They seem pretty even to me, although the T-Bolt is a older model with more variant types then the Warhammer which might or might not make a difference in the end.

For me, I like the Wammy. More punch (talking about weapons damage overall here, not actual punching) for your c-bills, I think.

Edited by DeathDealer 6, 28 July 2012 - 05:21 AM.

[William McNab]

DeathDealer 6, on 28 July 2012 - 05:15 AM, said:

Hey Will,

Have your tried it with the Eridani Lighthorse Variant (available at various different times) Thunderbolt yet?

Do you know the variant number for ELH variant, or the weapon loadout? Gladly run some sims with the updated data.

[zathras]

I went with "depends on the pilot" because the two mechs are pretty equal and the pilot better able to fight the battle to his/her advantage will come out on top.

Manfred Von Richtoffen said it best - "The quality of the box matters little. Success depends upon the man who sits in it."

This also applies in MWO.

[DeathDealer 6]

Will, I couldn't find a Variant number for the ELH model but I will give you what I have right out of the 3050 sourcebook which follows as:

"With thunderbolts so common, many field modifications are starting to appear. One of the most interesting is the approach used by the mercenary Eridani Light Horse. The Eridani Techs use Hildco Model 12 Jump Jets manufactured in the St. Ives Compact to make their Thunderbolts able to jump 120 meters. They also make major changes in weaponry, producing a variant with a Thunderbolt - 12 Large Pulse Laser in the right arm, a Magna Longbow - 10 LRM Launcher in the right torso and three Diverse Optics Type 18 Medium Lasers in the left torso."

I also know there was a 3025 ELH version but I'm unsure what the loadout is due to my 3025 sourcebooks untimely demise due to a dog.

This is the best I could give you, sorry buddy.

DeathDealer 6

[BrokenDog]

TDR-5SE is what you're after. E is for Eridani! [?]
You're getting into picking variants now.
WHM-6D more armour, more heatsinks, less weapons and no ammo!
I'm still holding out for the Thunderbolt.

[Khan Warlock Kell]

It all comes down to pilot, a bad pilot in a good mech will still loose to a good pilot in a bad mech. as much as i love the way the Warhammer looksi think a good pilot in a t-bird will beat a good pilot in a hammer.

[Saladin Yussuf]

tbolt for me. like others, the heat issues and paper thin armor are game breakers.

[Star Ace]

Voted Warhammer due to nostalgia, it being the 'Mech on my box set in the eighties (I loved those cardboard tokens ). Although I prefer the Marauder by a mile despite its weaknesses. I have long loved dual PPCs, and the Warhammer fits the bill.

I did love the Urbanmech choice, though!

[DeathDealer 6]

I know right Star Ace, the cardboard Mechs with the taped on Affiliation Identifiers! (Still have all my box sets BTW)

Soooo much simpler game though and instantly fun out of the box, sigh.

[William McNab]

DeathDealer 6, on 30 July 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

Will, I couldn't find a Variant number for the ELH model but I will give you what I have right out of the 3050 sourcebook which follows as:

"With thunderbolts so common, many field modifications are starting to appear. One of the most interesting is the approach used by the mercenary Eridani Light Horse. The Eridani Techs use Hildco Model 12 Jump Jets manufactured in the St. Ives Compact to make their Thunderbolts able to jump 120 meters. They also make major changes in weaponry, producing a variant with a Thunderbolt - 12 Large Pulse Laser in the right arm, a Magna Longbow - 10 LRM Launcher in the right torso and three Diverse Optics Type 18 Medium Lasers in the left torso."

I also know there was a 3025 ELH version but I'm unsure what the loadout is due to my 3025 sourcebooks untimely demise due to a dog.

This is the best I could give you, sorry buddy.

DeathDealer 6

How's This?
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE
65 tons IS TW non-box set
Movement: 4/6/4
Engine: 260
Heat Sinks: 15 [30]
Internal: 104
Armor: 211/211
HD: 3 9
CT: 21 30 ( 12)
RT: 15 24 ( 6)
LT: 15 24 ( 6)
RA: 10 20
LA: 10 20
RL: 15 30
LL: 15 30
Large Pulse Laser [RA] 10 Heat
LRM 10 [LT] 4 Heat
Medium Laser [LT] 3 Heat
Medium Laser [LT] 3 Heat
Medium Laser [LT] 3 Heat
LRM 10 Ammo (12) [LT]
CASE [LT]

BV: 1,439 Cost: 5,851,010 Cbills

vs Warhammer
Warhammer WHM-9S
70 tons IS TW non-box set
Movement: 4/6
Engine: 280 Light
Heat Sinks: 20 [40]
Internal: 107
Armor: 208/217
HD: 3 9
CT: 22 31 ( 10)
RT: 15 22 ( 7)
LT: 15 22 ( 7)
RA: 11 21
LA: 11 21
RL: 15 29
LL: 15 29
ER PPC [LA] 15 Heat
ER PPC [RA] 15 Heat
Streak SRM 6 [RT] 4 Heat
ER Medium Laser [CT] 5 Heat
ER Medium Laser [CT] 5 Heat
Streak SRM 6 Ammo (15) [RT]
CASE [RT]

BV: 1,653 Cost: 11,359,400 Cbills

Both are from 3067 Rule set.
Battle 1 - Round 9
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt)
Large Pulse Laser at Warhammer WHM-9S (Warhammer); needs 8, rolls 8 : hits HD
Warhammer WHM-9S (Warhammer) takes 9 damage to HD. <<<SECTION DESTROYED>>>,
*** Warhammer WHM-9S (Warhammer) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on HD. Roll is 5; no effect.

Battle 2 - Round 16 - this was a close in battle.
Weapons fire for Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt)
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer); needs 6, rolls 9 : hits CT
Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to CT. 12 Armor remaining.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer); needs 6, rolls 5 : misses.
Medium Laser at Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer); needs 6, rolls 8 : hits LT
Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer) takes 5 damage to LT. 12 Armor remaining.
Large Pulse Laser at Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer); needs 4, rolls 4 : hits RL
Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer) takes 9 damage to RL. 21 Armor remaining.
LRM 10 at Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer); needs 12, rolls 7 : misses.
Physical Attack Phase
-------------------
Physical attacks for Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt)
Punch (Left Arm) at Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer); needs 7, rolls 11 : hits (using Kick table) RL
Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer) takes 7 damage to RL. 14 Armor remaining.
Physical attacks for Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer)
Kick (Left ) at Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt); needs 6, rolls 10 : hits (using Punch table) HD
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) takes 14 damage to HD. Armor destroyed, <<<SECTION DESTROYED>>>,
*** Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) DESTROYED by damage! ***

Round 3 - Longrange fire.
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-9D (Warhammer)
ER PPC at Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt); needs 5, rolls 7 : hits LA
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to LA. 0 Armor remaining.
ER PPC at Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt); needs 5, rolls 9 : hits LT
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to LT. 14 Armor remaining.
ER Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt); needs 7, rolls 8 : hits CT
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) takes 5 damage to CT. 25 Armor remaining.
ER Medium Laser at Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt); needs 7, rolls 5 : misses.
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (20+ damage).
The base target is 5 [5 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (5 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (20+ damage)); needs 6, rolls 3 : falls.
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) falls on its right side, suffering 7 damage.
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) takes 5 damage to RL. 25 Armor remaining.
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) takes 2 damage to HD. <<<SECTION DESTROYED>>>,
*** Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on HD. Roll is 8; 1 location.
<<<CRITICAL HIT>>> on Life Support.

Battle 4 - Round 25.
Weapons fire for Warhammer WHM-8D (Warhammer)
ER PPC at Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt); needs 4, rolls 12 : hits CT (hit aimed location)
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to CT. <<<SECTION DESTROYED>>>,
*** Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on CT. Roll is 6; no effect.
ER PPC at Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt); needs 4, rolls 9 : hits CT
Thunderbolt TDR-9SE (Thunderbolt) takes 10 damage to CT.


So, 3 out of 4 for the Warhammers - but they had a 200 - 300 BVP advantage over the ELH Thunderbolt, which is supposed to be working with support units.

[DeathDealer 6]

Well I guess that answers that I guess.

Thanks for doing all the sim work Will.

I still wish MWO would give me my Whammy in game, muhaha. ;-)