176 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

FiveDigits, on 17 December 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

Quite hard actually. The problem is to reliably identify which players are AFK. Even industry giants like World of Warcraft struggle with this task in the light of fake input generated by macros/scripts/bots.

How can it be that hard? Geeze, it's actually quite simple... What's an AFK player NOT going to do that's easy to check for?

Move.

If, at the end of the match, you have a player that is alive or dead on the exact same spot he spawned into the game on, you can feel 99.999% sure, he's an AFK player.

And if you're afraid of missing some via push, again, an AFK player won't be moved/pushed very far by enemy 'mech fire, so if he's within, a 5 or 10 point radius of his starting point, again, you can be 99.998% sure he's an AFK player.

How fricking difficult can THAT be?

Edited by Dimento Graven, 18 December 2012 - 08:26 AM.

[Merc85]

Dimento Graven, on 18 December 2012 - 08:25 AM, said:

How can it be that hard? Geeze, it's actually quite simple... What's an AFK player NOT going to do that's easy to check for?

Move.

If, at the end of the match, you have a player that is alive or dead on the exact same spot he spawned into the game on, you can feel 99.999% sure, he's an AFK player.

And if you're afraid of missing some via push, again, an AFK player won't be moved/pushed very far by enemy 'mech fire, so if he's within, a 5 or 10 point radius of his starting point, again, you can be 99.998% sure he's an AFK player.

How fricking difficult can THAT be?

A couple of issues that I see:
1. Some/many AFK mechs are due to CTD or the yellow/gold screen and it's unfair to penalize them for that.
2. Cbill farmers will now pick a pretty fast mech, rush into the middle of the enemy mechs, hit as many of them as he can until he dies, and hope that some that he hits get killed so he gets the assist cbills. Then, after that minute or so rush and die, he just loads another mech in another battle and does the same thing. With no RnR costs, this will give lots of Cbills per minute as compared to staying in battles for 5, 10, or 15 minutes. I don't care about the Cbills they get, but to have one out of only eight mechs suicide really puts a team at a disadvantage for those that are playing the game "for real".

Edited by Merc85, 18 December 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Merc85, on 18 December 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

A couple of issues that I see:
1. Some/many AFK mechs are due to CTD or the yellow/gold screen and it's unfair to penalize them for that.

Granted, but they won't be 'penalized' for CTD. They're just not be REWARDED for it now either.

Being AFK due to being a farmer, or due to game issues, should not result in a positive cash flow for the pilot.

Quote

2. Cbill farmers will now pick a pretty fast mech, rush into the middle of the enemy mechs, hit as many of them as he can until he dies, and hope that some that he hits get killed so he gets the assist cbills. Then, after that minute or so rush and die, he just loads another mech in another battle and does the same thing. With no RnR costs, this will give lots of Cbills per minute as compared to staying the battles for 5, 10, or 15 minutes. I don't care about the Cbills they get, but to have one out of only eight mechs suicide really puts a team at a disadvantage for those that are playing the game "for real".

For me this is an acceptable form of farming. At least the farmer ran out, did some damage, caused some disruption in enemy lines, had an actual affect in game. Besides, at that point how do you tell the difference between a farmer and a bad player? You just described me in my very first battle. I wasn't farming, I just didn't know any better and was very overly exuberantly excited to be in a 'mech simulator.

No, better to NOT reward someone for doing nothing.

Thontor, on 18 December 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

"Fake input via macros/scripts/bots" from the post you quoted.

Or they could just set the throttle, then go afk

All of the AFK bots in games I've played and observed don't move. When I've died and switched to spectate, there's an AFK bot, exactly where he spawned...

Besides, comparing start of game coordinates with end of game coordinates is such a simple test, and will catch the laziest and must uncreative of the farmers, which MOST of them are, why NOT put that in?

Edited by Dimento Graven, 18 December 2012 - 08:53 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

cdlord, on 17 December 2012 - 05:05 AM, said:

I did not know about the Cadet Bonus. Nicely done PGI. And just by one of those links above, two more maps by Feb. Outstanding!

so any update on community Warfare?

[Merc85]

Dimento Graven, on 18 December 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Granted, but they won't be 'penalized' for CTD. They're just not be REWARDED for it now either.

Being AFK due to being a farmer, or due to game issues, should not result in a positive cash flow for the pilot.

For me this is an acceptable form of farming. At least the farmer ran out, did some damage, caused some disruption in enemy lines, had an actual affect in game. Besides, at that point how do you tell the difference between a farmer and a bad player? You just described me in my very first battle. I wasn't farming, I just didn't know any better and was very overly exuberantly excited to be in a 'mech simulator.

No, better to NOT reward someone for doing nothing.


All of the AFK bots in games I've played and observed don't move. When I've died and switched to spectate, there's an AFK bot, exactly where he spawned...

Besides, comparing start of game coordinates with end of game coordinates is such a simple test, and will catch the laziest and must uncreative of the farmers, which MOST of them are, why NOT put that in?

While I agree with some of this, yesterday this type of player dies quickly, hurts his team, and pays a penalty in RnR for doing so. After the patch this same player pays no penalty whatsoever for hurting his team and actually gets rewarded for in in terms of faster Cbills per minute. Is this really the type of reward system the game needs?

Edited by Merc85, 18 December 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[gnohm]

Dimento Graven, on 18 December 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

Granted, but they won't be 'penalized' for CTD. They're just not be REWARDED for it now either.

Being AFK due to being a farmer, or due to game issues, should not result in a positive cash flow for the pilot.

For me this is an acceptable form of farming. At least the farmer ran out, did some damage, caused some disruption in enemy lines, had an actual affect in game. Besides, at that point how do you tell the difference between a farmer and a bad player? You just described me in my very first battle. I wasn't farming, I just didn't know any better and was very overly exuberantly excited to be in a 'mech simulator.

No, better to NOT reward someone for doing nothing.


All of the AFK bots in games I've played and observed don't move. When I've died and switched to spectate, there's an AFK bot, exactly where he spawned...

Besides, comparing start of game coordinates with end of game coordinates is such a simple test, and will catch the laziest and must uncreative of the farmers, which MOST of them are, why NOT put that in?

I think part of the problem though is that now we will have assaults doing this and rushing, because the payout is the same/more depending on how many people they hit before they get themselves killed.

[Merc85]

gnohm, on 18 December 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

I think part of the problem though is that now we will have assaults doing this and rushing, because the payout is the same/more depending on how many people they hit before they get themselves killed.

Well said.

[Pando]

Goose, on 17 December 2012 - 06:37 AM, said:

So let me see if I've got this right:

• New mode to suck up all the light 'Mechs (so the rest of use can get back to brawling?)
  
• A new assault 'Mech, which even the keds with premium can't afford, because
  
• nobody gets a payday anymore
  
• the first known attempt to fix NARC (having been dismissed out of hand when introduced)

Meanwhile:

• No Capcha per game to handle the farmers
  
• nothing on convergence
  
• silence on the simultaneous droppers issue
  
• ECM still rules
  
• Go Big or Go Home still applies, so get your premium, or go elsewhere
  
• Teh Netcode still pokes players in the eyes

… But I'm not bitter …

I have 60,000,000 saved up.

[Dimento Graven]

Merc85, on 18 December 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

While I agree with some of this, yesterday this type of player dies quickly, hurts his team, and pays a penalty in RnR for doing so. After the patch this same player pays no penalty whatsoever for hurting his team and actually gets rewarded for in in terms of faster Cbills per minute. Is this really the type of reward system the game needs?

Sure the farm rusher will be problematic, though having an assault rush and do measurable damage on 8 'mechs so that's a little less armor I have to puch through... Again, I see no problem. How do you differentiate between a farmer and just a bad player at that point?

You can't.

I suppose you could use a K/D ratio modifier. I would assume players doing this 'farm rush' would have a rather **** poor K/D ratio, below 1.0. So could take the K/D ratio, and any thing less than one is modified against the cash they would have received, and they end up with the result.

For example, say a 'rush' farmer would have a K/D ratio of .75 from all his deaths and very rarely killing anyone. His end of game reward for a team win would normally have totaled, for the sake of math ease, 100,000. So we modify .75x100,000 and he now only gets 75k, sure it's not ZERO, but the upside is, you can adjust the whole reward system accordingly:

Assuming a win, and a farmer or just an incredibly bad player with a K/D ratio of .25. Both farmer and very bad player would receive 25k, subtract the 25k from the 100k 'normal' reward, and divide and distribute to the rest of the players who have a K/D ratio above 1.00. That way the farmer and the bad player are 'paying' his team mates for being carried through the match.

If it's a loss, the K/D player gets 25k, and that's it, no carrying bonus for the rest of the team, you carried him to a loss, so no monies for you...

I think it works out rather well...

[MadPanda]

The patch will be delayed. Mark my words. The QA 29 Answers are delayed (still not up). Usually they come after 4-5 hours after closing the question thread, now it's been over 20 hours and still no show. The PGI office probably looks like bunch of headless chickens running around in total panic about todays somewhat big patch. If they go ahead with the patching, I'm expecting it to take well over 4+ hours. Set your expectations to minimum now to avoid disappointment.

[Merc85]

Thontor, on 18 December 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

they didn't pay a penalty because they would just lauch repeatedly without repairing or reloading at all.

Now they will get much less by doing the same since the rewards are less in general, and they are participation based

No...they did pay a penalty since they would have to repair their mechs since enemy mechs would hurt them as much as they could to make sure they paid the repair cost (penalty for not moving).

Edited by Merc85, 18 December 2012 - 09:19 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

Merc85, on 18 December 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

No...they did pay a penalty since they would have to repair their mechs since enemy mechs would hurt them as much as they could to make sure they paid the penalty.

no, because even if every single component were destroyed, they only had to turn off auto-repair and auto-rearm, collect the free 75% repair, and enter a new match without ever paying a penny for RnR. The Repairs were not mandatory, so anyone farming simply turned off repair and laughed all the way to the bank.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 18 December 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

so any update on community Warfare?

I know its technically not on topic of the 18th patch, Im just curious and the ask the devs I think it was has a disclaimer not to ask that question there

[Redshift2k5]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 18 December 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

I know its technically not on topic of the 18th patch, Im just curious and the ask the devs I think it was has a disclaimer not to ask that question there

Quote

We are not straying away from this path, we will just not give a timeline as like it says in the quote above, it's such a big component of the game that we can't honestly give you a date. It has been through planning and design and will have to be ironed out a lot in order to make sure it does what we want it to. Community Warfare is NOT just a game mode or rule set, it's an entire sub-system that has to be created from the ground up and incorporated into what we have right now. At no time have we said Community Warfare is off the table and nor will we. It's a very important part of our long term goals with MWO.

http://mwomercs.com/...52#entry1607952

It is most certainly something they are still working on, but it's both too big of a deal and too far off for any early news (which will be taken by the community and blown out of proportion anyway). Just like the clans, it's simply too early to dispense details because in the time to come, those details could all change and everyone will scream about it.

[Jman5]

Two new dragon variant Hero mechs and night variant of River City are coming this patch.

[Merc85]

Redshift2k5, on 18 December 2012 - 09:20 AM, said:

no, because even if every single component were destroyed, they only had to turn off auto-repair and auto-rearm, collect the free 75% repair, and enter a new match without ever paying a penny for RnR. The Repairs were not mandatory, so anyone farming simply turned off repair and laughed all the way to the bank.

Aah....I stand corrected. Good point.

[Warge]

So... where is patch?

[Redshift2k5]

Warge, on 18 December 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

So... where is patch?

Check the first post again. note all times listed are based on PST.

A few more hours until 'patch deployment'

[CypherHalo]

OMG!!!!

I just that thread you linked about economic changes. OMG! Myself and many others told them to make changes like that months ago!!! They are finally doing it now?

*sigh* Okay, I'm trying to calm down here. I know people get miffed if you are too emotional. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Those are GREAT changes. They should have been implemented since open beta. I uninstalled this game last month. I have to admit, this finally gets me thinking I need to reinstall as it sounds like they're finally trying to cater to a different player base then just the "hardcore". I worry this might be "too little too late" as open beta launch was when you were likely to get the biggest influx of new players and all they were met with was a punishing grind. If this system was in place they would have been met with a nice "hook" to draw them in.

PGI, respawns please? I know the "hardcore" crowd doesn't like them b/c they're not "realistic". This is a video game and I can tell you with 100% certainty that respawns would help up the fun factor of this game. Keep a game mode with no respawns for those who like it but I think a lot of us would like to be able to respawn.

[Redshift2k5]

CypherHalo, on 18 December 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

OMG!!!!

I just that thread you linked about economic changes. OMG! Myself and many others told them to make changes like that months ago!!! They are finally doing it now?

*sigh* Okay, I'm trying to calm down here. I know people get miffed if you are too emotional. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Those are GREAT changes. They should have been implemented since open beta. I uninstalled this game last month. I have to admit, this finally gets me thinking I need to reinstall as it sounds like they're finally trying to cater to a different player base then just the "hardcore". I worry this might be "too little too late" as open beta launch was when you were likely to get the biggest influx of new players and all they were met with was a punishing grind. If this system was in place they would have been met with a nice "hook" to draw them in.

PGI, respawns please? I know the "hardcore" crowd doesn't like them b/c they're not "realistic". This is a video game and I can tell you with 100% certainty that respawns would help up the fun factor of this game. Keep a game mode with no respawns for those who like it but I think a lot of us would like to be able to respawn.

A respawn-like gamemode has been discussed previously, involving a 'drop ship mode' wher you would each pilot four mechs, a new one being hot-dropped after your first is destroyed. not te same as respawn, but it allows for a longer match-type with multiple 'lives'.