176 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

elbloom, on 18 December 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Am I the only one to see that botters actually will rake in MORE money after the patch ?? No R&R,25k for loss + 25k for being last = 50k for 1 minute of time (connect mech to match - run into enemy to die - quitmatch - rinserepeat).

thats 500k in 10 minutes, quite impressive for a little mousemoving script, isn´t it ?

I'm pretty sure that the listed ranges are more a general guideline as to what to expect to make given how much you've accomplished compared to others, not specific payouts for your actual rank in the battle. We'll see soon though.

[Odanan]

Very useful thread, thank you.

[Bolide]

Don't know if it's been suggested, but how about for teams have have say 2 out of 8 players AFK/Disconnect the remaining players get to split the AFK's shares among them.

This help their team rebuilt after a match they are likely to loose, or greatly reward them for a match they win despite the odds against them.

[patlasmat]

very useful tread! and i've made my first mc purchase after reading these even though game will stay nearly unplayable for me without europe servers, i am in east europe and latency is serious here.

[SaNMaN]

<Hands trembling with indignant rage>


removing RNR??????? removing RNR?????????? REMOVING RNR?????????????

i dont care if this gets me banned from the forums...!


ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR COLLECTIVE PEABRAIN???????????????

what in the @$%#$%&#%^&*#%^*#%^* are you Hamster wheeled squeekie headed misfits think your Doing to MECHWARRIOR??!?!?!?!?!!


first Collision removal(without any remote eta what so ever for replacement) and the Bloated LRM damages.. not to mention the already OVERLY simplified Salvaging system.... now...NOW your removing RNR for what reason(s)?


ease of play? aka lowering the bar....DUMBING DOWN!!

WTF!!!! whats NEXT? Rubber bumpers surrounding our DAMN MECHS !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!??????!!!?!!?!?????!!?!


if you dont seriously rethink this....and i mean imediately... you'll lose the big picture...the big score...

your on a dangerously slippery slope and the majority of fans/gamers wont deal with it...thoughtya said you guys were long time fans of Battletech & Mechwarrior....<blinks>.....




Rasalhague 92'

[Sp4wNers]

Jesus I can't wait to get this patch... i'm really excited i want my 8 million c-bills and a stalker

[Redshift2k5]

SaNMaN, on 18 December 2012 - 04:03 AM, said:

<Hands trembling with indignant rage>


removing RNR??????? removing RNR?????????? REMOVING RNR?????????????

i dont care if this gets me banned from the forums...!


ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR COLLECTIVE PEABRAIN???????????????

what in the @$%#$%&#%^&*#%^*#%^* are you Hamster wheeled squeekie headed misfits think your Doing to MECHWARRIOR??!?!?!?!?!!


first Collision removal(without any remote eta what so ever for replacement) and the Bloated LRM damages.. not to mention the already OVERLY simplified Salvaging system.... now...NOW your removing RNR for what reason(s)?


ease of play? aka lowering the bar....DUMBING DOWN!!

WTF!!!! whats NEXT? Rubber bumpers surrounding our DAMN MECHS !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!!?!!?!?!?!!?!?!?!??????!!!?!!?!?????!!?!


if you dont seriously rethink this....and i mean imediately... you'll lose the big picture...the big score...

your on a dangerously slippery slope and the majority of fans/gamers wont deal with it...thoughtya said you guys were long time fans of Battletech & Mechwarrior....<blinks>.....




Rasalhague 92'

Here's the actual big picture:

They cannot appeal only to hardcore mechwarriors. There must be room for rookies and casuals in order for MWO to be financially viable, and a certain amount of simplification is required. If you were the one paying the bills and collecting the income, you'd be trying to reach as large a market as possible too.

The RnR was a bad system with far too many loopholes.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 18 December 2012 - 04:36 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Redshift2k5, on 18 December 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

Here's the actual big picture:

They cannot appeal only to hardcore mechwarriors. There must be room for rookies and casuals in order for MWO to be financially viable, and a certain amount of simplification is required. If you were the one paying the bills and collecting the income, you'd be trying to reach as large a market as possible too.

The RnR was a bad system with far too many loopholes.

I think there's a place for RnR, but not as they had it. We need real salvage, not a cbill total. Take Armor and Structure cost out of the equation and focus on the items and ammo. Split the difference. Don't make us repair (though I did not mind RnR before) armor and structure. Everyone has them, everyone will lose them. Re-enable RnR for ammo (obvious) and items only.
Gonna work on this thought today and post in it's own thread after patchmas.......

[Redshift2k5]

cdlord, on 18 December 2012 - 05:29 AM, said:

I think there's a place for RnR, but not as they had it. We need real salvage, not a cbill total. Take Armor and Structure cost out of the equation and focus on the items and ammo. Split the difference. Don't make us repair (though I did not mind RnR before) armor and structure. Everyone has them, everyone will lose them. Re-enable RnR for ammo (obvious) and items only.
Gonna work on this thought today and post in it's own thread after patchmas.......

I have no issues with RnR as a concept, however the previous implementation had several major flaws which we are better off without.

[grayson marik]

Hmm well, the point that the implementation of R&R was far from being perfect, this is no reason to remove it.
With the same reason someone could come to the conclusion that the whole game implentation is far from being perfect and therefore.... ;-)

I'd rather like to see R&R come into play the longer u play:

- first no R&R and the noob bonus
- noob bonus gone, still no R&R
- playing a while, got to pay amunition
- playing longer, R&R comes to armor+ amo
- being an experienced player: full R&R with even the remote possibility to loose some money if you REALLY screw it up on a match i.e. dying by getting utterly destroyed without even inflicting SOME damage on the oponent ^^

[Billygoat]

grayson marik, on 18 December 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

Hmm well, the point that the implementation of R&R was far from being perfect, this is no reason to remove it.
With the same reason someone could come to the conclusion that the whole game implentation is far from being perfect and therefore.... ;-)

I'd rather like to see R&R come into play the longer u play:

- first no R&R and the noob bonus
- noob bonus gone, still no R&R
- playing a while, got to pay amunition
- playing longer, R&R comes to armor+ amo
- being an experienced player: full R&R with even the remote possibility to loose some money if you REALLY screw it up on a match i.e. dying by getting utterly destroyed without even inflicting SOME damage on the oponent ^^

This would just encourage people to keep making new accounts to take advantage of the noob bonus and free repairs instead of accumulating stuff on their main account. And is punishing your long term players the longer they stick with your game really a smart thing to do?

[Thrull]

Drop code for match.
During prep for match code a random drop code that must be entered. If the code is failed boot player or note them as afk and lockout their controls. give bonus to team for killing them (just a wish) stop making real players pay for people who want to cheat. Adjust payouts if for team who drop minus mechs.

[Valcoer]

elbloom, on 17 December 2012 - 05:27 AM, said:

Overdo it ? I beg you, Sir, not every match you play will be duds like you explain, so you will make money if you have some matches where you shine.

But when you have 2 afk, all players will get the hefty repair bill, because they WILL loose - the problem with them afk-farmers is much much worse than an individual having to grind some cash.

IMO they should make it so when you are in a match the client connects you to this match until it is finished - no quitting, no farming, if you play a match - play the WHOLE match !! And if you do 0 damage and don´t stop a cap and have no spotting assists, well, no cbills for you

first the difference between pug group and 8v8 should be noted. if you are in a group of 8v8 it is obviously a disconnect if you have an afk.
so any premade group does not need to be looked at since no one is going to group with a person that is going to afk farm.
only players that are not in a premade group should recieve the penalty.
track the number of times a player is disco'd from the server and penalize anyone that is not in a group that does it over a set number of times by suspending their account.

[Exinferis]

I don't see the reason for removing the RnR.
So playing is at no cost. You don't have to look after your mech and be cautious about the amount of ammo you spend or how risky you play.
If you are at a point where you have an apporbiate amount of mechs and weapons you are "just playing". C-Bills will be for nothing.
For example myself I have the complete set of mechs I wanted at the start (line-up of centurions and a raven) and tons of weapons. And I am only a casual player, far away from a pro-gamer.
If you are able to buy a mech, it is not very valuable like it should be. So with removing RnR it is like presenting the mechs on a silverplate. "Here you have it".
So it is not the valuable, expensive and hard earned mech, like it should be. A pilot connected by heart and work to his mech.
I think it is sad, that it will be removed and I hope it will be back some time.

In addition: In my eyes it was too easy to get ANYTHING in the game when you compare it to the books. There is no tree with AC20 or gauss growing on it.

[CDLord HHGD]

Valcoer, on 18 December 2012 - 06:46 AM, said:

first the difference between pug group and 8v8 should be noted. if you are in a group of 8v8 it is obviously a disconnect if you have an afk.
so any premade group does not need to be looked at since no one is going to group with a person that is going to afk farm.
only players that are not in a premade group should recieve the penalty.
track the number of times a player is disco'd from the server and penalize anyone that is not in a group that does it over a set number of times by suspending their account.

I was in a 8v8 the other day with my team and as soon as the match started, all but one on the other side disco'd. Not going to name any names, but we wrote their info down (as it was an 8 person team) and will be watching for it. Strike two gets the whole team reported.

[Jairn]

elbloom, on 17 December 2012 - 05:27 AM, said:

Overdo it ? I beg you, Sir, not every match you play will be duds like you explain, so you will make money if you have some matches where you shine.

But when you have 2 afk, all players will get the hefty repair bill, because they WILL loose - the problem with them afk-farmers is much much worse than an individual having to grind some cash.

IMO they should make it so when you are in a match the client connects you to this match until it is finished - no quitting, no farming, if you play a match - play the WHOLE match !! And if you do 0 damage and don´t stop a cap and have no spotting assists, well, no cbills for you

Remember, no R&R means no repair and rearm costs.... so you just won't make as much money.

[Sprouticus]

Exinferis, on 18 December 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

I don't see the reason for removing the RnR.
So playing is at no cost. You don't have to look after your mech and be cautious about the amount of ammo you spend or how risky you play.
If you are at a point where you have an apporbiate amount of mechs and weapons you are "just playing". C-Bills will be for nothing.
For example myself I have the complete set of mechs I wanted at the start (line-up of centurions and a raven) and tons of weapons. And I am only a casual player, far away from a pro-gamer.
If you are able to buy a mech, it is not very valuable like it should be. So with removing RnR it is like presenting the mechs on a silverplate. "Here you have it".
So it is not the valuable, expensive and hard earned mech, like it should be. A pilot connected by heart and work to his mech.
I think it is sad, that it will be removed and I hope it will be back some time.

In addition: In my eyes it was too easy to get ANYTHING in the game when you compare it to the books. There is no tree with AC20 or gauss growing on it.

Your logic needs some work

1) If you are being forced to use meta game functionality and economics to balance a game, you are doing it wrong. Yes, it is more 'realisitc' and 'canon', but it is less fun. I didt hate RnR as a concept, but when it became clear that people were just repairing and using the free ammo, it became ppointless.

2) In addition the RnR favored those with bonuses because it was applied after bonuses. This skewed the economy as Founder + premium would get a bonus far beyond 75%. The key for any economic system is balanceing the best vs worst players. The high end vs low end. The more extreme those two ends, the harder it is to balance. This was why they went away from high repair bills for XL engines and internals and instead charge for armor now. Again, not canon, but necessary.

3) They can still bring metagame consequences into play with CW. For instance you can make planetary assaults be affected by how much you win by (8-0 gets you more advantage than 8-7). You can also apply some bonus to each faction based upon how well ALL the players are playing. Efficient players give a better bonus.

4) Lastly, with rewards going down a LOT, mechs will still be hard earned. Trust me. In fact I predict a lot of complaints about this moving forward.

[Redliner]

Bryan Elkman, on 17 December 2012 - 04:54 AM, said:

RNR has been removed from the game to facilitate a better overall user experience and game balance.

What!? You removed one of the most interesting facets of this game? Have you not seen the hundreds of posts around building profitable mechs vs. mechs with enough weaponry to destroy a small moon?

So, now there is no drawback to loading a mech with the most expensive gear you can grab (which will be even easier to get now, mind you)?
So, now there is no drawback to charging headlong into a group of 8 all by your rambo self?

What a giant step backwards.

Edited by Redliner, 18 December 2012 - 07:33 AM.

[Merc85]

elbloom, on 18 December 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Am I the only one to see that botters actually will rake in MORE money after the patch ?? No R&R,25k for loss + 25k for being last = 50k for 1 minute of time (connect mech to match - run into enemy to die - quitmatch - rinserepeat).

thats 500k in 10 minutes, quite impressive for a little mousemoving script, isn´t it ?

As I posted on the previous page....I totally agree with your math. I care mainly because when you drop with just an 8 mech team, having one on your side who is just farming Cbills is a big advantage for the other team. It would have been so easy to make sure this doesn't happen, but no......this change actually makes it better as you pointed out!!

[MaddMaxx]

xRaeder, on 17 December 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

You act as if it will be a static field with a 20km map. None of the BF3 or MW:LL maps I've played at have been that way. You also act as if someone won't do an end run around the front lines and attack the back bases. Happens all the time in other games with larger maps sizes.

Just commenting on what is likely to happen if the Maps got to a LARGE scale. End "arounds" happen now. The Scouts do them a lot, not so much the Assaults.

I assume you would allow the Timer to be increased for a Match in a suitable proportion to the Map size increase? Otherwise the LARGE Maps pretty much negate the Assaults from getting anywhere, mid feild, before the Match ends,,,