223 replies to this topic

[Belkor]

Noth, on 17 December 2012 - 10:14 AM, said:

No more than it's been hurt already. There's always been suicide farmers, and always will be suicide farmers. All this will do is make it a bit easier and less punishing for new players while shifting rewards to a more performance model. It will also make running certain builds feasible and even out overall income between mechs.

Always will be suicide farmers? This isn't true for World of Tanks where suiciding would bleed your account balance from the repair costs. R&R is one of the most effective ways to address suicide farmers as proven in WoT.

[Deadoon]

Belkor, on 21 December 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Always will be suicide farmers? This isn't true for World of Tanks where suiciding would bleed your account balance from the repair costs. R&R is one of the most effective ways to address suicide farmers as proven in WoT.

Yep a game where your repair costs are insane, there is no participation award and they have maximum grind anyways.

This game has no repair costs(now), you could launch without being repaired, you get a participation funds and is meant to be a grind between mechs now with the same mech.


Difference? participation funds, remove those entirely and you have 0 suicide farmers pretty much. YAY.

Also WOt has tier 1 suicide rushers, sorry to disappoint

Edited by Deadoon, 21 December 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[Sarevos]

Desicator, on 21 December 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

Please bring repairs and ammo back.......this is awful.

WHY?
1. No repair = no penalty for running at the enemy like a tard and just breeds stupidity.
2. No ammo = LRM spam fire with no consequences.....ie rearming cost for poor firing decision

Please find the middle on this issue and stop going to opposite ends of the spectrum to fix problems. I understand if your intention was to get responses, but this is just insane.

if your team suffers from so much as one dc/fps/hud bug thats it youve lost money through no fault of your own people have to play smart and do well to make any money tiny payouts are punishment for failing on the battlefield but now everyone can play the build/mech they want to and not have to grind in cost efficient builds just so they can play one match in their pimped ride only to have to grind 10 more matches because someones game screwed up...

in short add it back in CW since we get salary based on our ranking then but for now its good that its out

[Thirdstar]

Are we really necroing this thread?

[Kaijin]

Sarevos, on 21 December 2012 - 11:13 PM, said:

if your team suffers from so much as one dc/fps/hud bug thats it youve lost money through no fault of your own

Pretty much why I quit trying to play the month before the Dec 18th patch. I was CTD on launch more than launching, and each time the game crashed on me, leaving my mech to be picked apart by the misinformed, it left my teammates with a worse chance of pulling out a win.

I can play now, but don't much due to ECM, but that's a different thread.

[Sarevos]

Kaijin, on 21 December 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

Pretty much why I quit trying to play the month before the Dec 18th patch. I was CTD on launch more than launching, and each time the game crashed on me, leaving my mech to be picked apart by the misinformed, it left my teammates with a worse chance of pulling out a win.

I can play now, but don't much due to ECM, but that's a different thread.

Ecm requires you to hold a murderous obsession with Ravens commandos and cicadas. You should already have one for a D-DC lol

[Belkor]

Deadoon, on 21 December 2012 - 11:07 PM, said:

Yep a game where your repair costs are insane, there is no participation award and they have maximum grind anyways.

This game has no repair costs(now), you could launch without being repaired, you get a participation funds and is meant to be a grind between mechs now with the same mech.

Difference? participation funds, remove those entirely and you have 0 suicide farmers pretty much. YAY.

Also WOt has tier 1 suicide rushers, sorry to disappoint

No participation award? You obviously have no grasp of WoT. Repair costs are reasonable and tier 1 suciding will earn you next to nothing fyi.

[Sarevos]

Belkor, on 22 December 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

No participation award? You obviously have no grasp of WoT. Repair costs are reasonable and tier 1 suciding will earn you next to nothing fyi.

so if minimum payouts as the punishment for suicide grinding is ok... why is it not sufficient for playing poorly?

[Nahuris]

Fortunately, he quit.... but my roommate used to play this game - his recipe was to load in 3 trial mechs, and exit each match, and then load his real mech --- no matter what happened, he'd get the cash from the 3 battles the trials were in, and regardless of whether he won or lost in his "real" mech, his repairs were covered.

That way, he could still use upgraded tech.

I also have spoken to numbers of other players, as I have been a TT player since the game was called Battle Droids in the 80's.
Many of those players have, or are, playing this game as well.
Let's be honest, every game has a losing side.... and no matter how well you do, you have a 50/50 chance of being on it --- because, even if you are the best player.... there is probably someone on the other side just as good.

Unlike most players, I rarely disconnect after I die.... and using almost exclusively lights, I will die. So I have seen my share of shut down hiders, AFK'ers etc.... as I sit in observation mode. Taking out RnR took away the reason for the AFK players.... basically logging in with a trial mech for the loser money to offset the repairs of other mechs.
Yes, it might encourage people to test out the advanced equipment.... but it will also stop people from designing "money mechs" for building cash to cover other mech repairs.
Instead, they will be forced to get stuck in... they are now having to actually get into the battle and do something.
Ok, if I sneak around in my Commando, and shoot as many mechs as possible, I might get more money... .but the offset is that I don't have the armor to take it when someone decides to return some love back at me....
And before people go on about heavy mechs doing that tactic, most of them are not fast enough to do it.... especially as that means going where they can see each enemy, so that they CAN shoot at it.

Yes, RnR fit the universe....except that if you read the Mercenary's Handbook, you find that repair and reloads were factored into 90% of contracts for Mercenary players..... meaning that they didn't worry about it, and House mechs were 100% covered...

There are differences in an online game from the tabletop --- it doesn't take us weeks on a ship to get to a mission... We aren't paying for food or transport.... we don't lose our pilot if we are headcapped .... and we don't get the usual 2.8 million c-bills per lance, per contract (standard rates for a c-d rated merc unit -- a rates could get up to 4 million a contract) plus "reasonable" ammo (sometimes a percentage) plus a percentage of repair covered in our contracts.... for that matter, we don't negotiate contracts at all....

Back in the original Mechwarrior game (which I have active on this system, via dosbox), you can get an average of 800,000 to 1 million c-bills per mech per battle out of their negotiation system. However, here, that would ruin the economy.....

No RnR does more to stop suicide farmers and AFK farmers than any amount of complaining about it on the forums ever did. And I'd rather have games that didn't start with 2 - 3 disconnects in each mission.

Nahuris

[FrostPaw]

It puzzles me they took out RnR at the same time as they changed the "new user" experience. Why they couldn't have waited to see how the new user experience felt without also shafting the regular user experience I'll never understand.

[Kaijin]

FrostPaw, on 22 December 2012 - 02:23 AM, said:

It puzzles me they took out RnR at the same time as they changed the "new user" experience. Why they couldn't have waited to see how the new user experience felt without also shafting the regular user experience I'll never understand.

Not like you speak for all regular users or anything though, right?

[FrostPaw]

Kaijin, on 22 December 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

Not like you speak for all regular users or anything though, right?

Yeah fair enough.

[Kraven Kor]

Tahuti, on 17 December 2012 - 03:11 PM, said:

I realize that removing RnR is a move to get more players into MWO and that's good. PGI needs money to develop the our beloved holy grail. Good move! The changes must go on.

On the other hand: WE NEED HARDCORE! TAKE ME TO THE MERCS! DO THE COMMUNITY WARFARE!

Economy doesn't mean: Get more C-Bills, it means MANAGMENT.

The elite mechwarriors need a CHALLENGE! Take us to the REAL frontline!

This please, to an extent.

[Sarevos]

Kraven Kor, on 22 December 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

This please, to an extent.

challenge in a pvp game tends to be the "opposition". RnR makes sense in CW only because we will earn weekly salary based on performance as well as mission rewards

[Kraven Kor]

Nahuris, on 22 December 2012 - 02:15 AM, said:

Yes, RnR fit the universe....except that if you read the Mercenary's Handbook, you find that repair and reloads were factored into 90% of contracts for Mercenary players..... meaning that they didn't worry about it, and House mechs were 100% covered...

There are differences in an online game from the tabletop --- it doesn't take us weeks on a ship to get to a mission... We aren't paying for food or transport.... we don't lose our pilot if we are headcapped .... and we don't get the usual 2.8 million c-bills per lance, per contract (standard rates for a c-d rated merc unit -- a rates could get up to 4 million a contract) plus "reasonable" ammo (sometimes a percentage) plus a percentage of repair covered in our contracts.... for that matter, we don't negotiate contracts at all....

Back in the original Mechwarrior game (which I have active on this system, via dosbox), you can get an average of 800,000 to 1 million c-bills per mech per battle out of their negotiation system. However, here, that would ruin the economy.....

No RnR does more to stop suicide farmers and AFK farmers than any amount of complaining about it on the forums ever did. And I'd rather have games that didn't start with 2 - 3 disconnects in each mission.

Nahuris

And I am hoping we see something that captures the "spirit" of those rules come Community Warfare. House Units have no repair bill, but way less income. Mercs have repair bills and ammo costs, with some contracts paying higher or covering more, others less, to provide some risk / reward management to the merc units. Almost makes me sad I decided to join a House Unit, to be honest, but I pretty much knew I was going House Marik from the start.

A man can dream.

Sarevos, on 22 December 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

challenge in a pvp game tends to be the "opposition". RnR makes sense in CW only because we will earn weekly salary based on performance as well as mission rewards

Can't it be both? Then the 'really good' units will be both defeating the opposition - other players - and the metagame - their finances.

And I am saying this just for CW; I'm OK with no RnR for the current game dynamics with no 'metagame.'

[Adridos]

Thirdstar, on 21 December 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

Are we really necroing this thread?

Well, the discussion is still to be had and it's better than spamming more threads about teh same topic, stating the same thing over and over again.

[LarkinOmega]

GM Reppu, on 22 December 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'm a fan of some negative reinforcement in video games personally. Losing exp upon death in FFXI was one of my favourite things. "If you're dumb and aggro the wrong thing, you die and suffer horribly for it" - of course I can't say it wasn't frustrating when it was just an accident involving RNG. That's just my own feelings on the matter though!
In regards to R&R, personally I didn't see the point of it existing. I left auto-repair and auto-rearm on all the time, and pretty much ignored it. I never paid close attention to my earnings either, and I'm sure I've had some harsh repair bills. I do my best to not get blown for my own satisfaction - If I end a match with 4 kills 3 assists and a bunch of other stuff, and I'm still alive, I feel good about it.
If I survive a pitched brawl with my armor being yellow everywhere as opposed to my CT alone being stripped of armor, I feel good about it.
If I lose a match, but by the time I was destroyed I expended all my ammo and perhaps lost an arm, I feel good about it, because dammit, I gave it everything I had.

.. yes I'm weird.

Not weird. This should be the modus operandi of everyone.

[Oppresor]

Agent of Change, on 17 December 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

Along with the removal of RnR they also entirely removed any reward for actually going after the "stated mission" in assault. Congrats everybody you now have freaking TDM instead of assault, polish up your most broken mechs and throw tactics out the window you get paid for blowing **** up and only blowing **** up.

I share your vision ManDaisy and it makes me slightly sad.

Yes RnR is one area that I have tried to discuss in the suggestions forum, see: http://mwomercs.com/...n-field-repair/ I ran it as a poll and the results were quite interesting; overall based on those that voted (Thanks Guys and Galls) the no's won, however a significant amount of MechWarriors want to see repair introduced, especially if the developers extend the mission time to say, 30 minutes or longer. The other factor is map size; many wanted this to be increased to support longer missions and more objectives.

Take a look at the Poll and let me know what you think. Alternatively, just vote; the more votes we get the better the picture for the developers and the more chance we have of fleshing out the final product.

Another area that is related and has recently been discussed in at least two threads on the Suggestion Forum is Coolent resupply in the field. The angle that this one is comming from seems to be related to Assault Mechs that are using alpha strike as their default method of engagement. The re-introduction of coolent flush would be very valuable when used with this tactic and therefore the need for coolent re-supply go's hand in hand.

[Mavairo]

Honestly OP, people playing like Doofus's has nothing to do with R&R.

[Landeraxe]

Kousagi, on 17 December 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

Everyone freaking out about the removal of RnR does not seem to get what PGI is doing. Yes, they removed the button for it, but at the same time lowered rewards that you get. So in short, its like Forcing you to pay the current RnR costs on mechs.

Sure, if you forget that those good enough to keep their mech undamaged are "paying" the taxes on the self-demolitionists, then your line of reasoning makes sense.Why get paid less for running a flawless combat?

Kousagi, on 17 December 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

Only thing I see with this standardization of rewards and removal of RnR is that low cost mech set ups will earn Less cbills now and high cost setups will earn the same amount, maybe a bit more then before.

I preferred it before, when you got paid more for doing what your job was (scouting, destroying, or capping) rather than making destruction the only goal of playing. Why should a lightly-armed scout or cunning base capturer get paid less than some behemoth that got totally destroyed but did a lot of damage first?

Kousagi, on 17 December 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

So in short, this is a econ nerf, not a buff.

No, it is a game nerf (as in be an assault brawler and don't care about paying your bills because there aren't any), and it isn't a buff either (on that account you are correct); its a debuff for top performers.