79 replies to this topic

[Sp4wNers]

Oh my... Thanks for your answer. So... Stalker is my another mech muahahah ]:->

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

DerelictTomcat, on 17 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

If I crash out there is still no loss due to nolonger having to reload or repair. I have no issue with making little money for crashing as long as there is no loss for damage. You lose nothing!

Now with removing the base cap bonus why even have a base cap (or are they removing this) and why not just call it what it is... Team Death Match.

Also:

By match 25 players can earn a minimum of 8.6 Million CB.

What does this mean for existing players?

Anyone over 26 matches will receive a onetime bonus of 7,981,686 CB.

Why not 8.6 Mil to be fair? I cannot fathom the logic behind this.

See you all on the battlefield.

Dr B00t, on 17 December 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

you aren't being punished for a d/c....u just aren't being rewarded as much...either way you did nothing for free c-bills

Someone didn't read the post I quoted, I wasn't stating anything about the current system, OR planned changes, I was talking about a change someone wanted. Reading, is FUN-damental.

Edited by Ehrithane, 18 December 2012 - 03:23 AM.

[EnigmaNL]

I was bored so I made this spreadsheet where you can calculate what sort of rewards you can expect. Salvage is not included because I don't know how that's calculated.

https://docs.google....eFJTR21pcVNvNGM

You need to download the Excel file and then you can put in your own values.

[Elder Thorn]

hey Mods, lock this thread, we are not allowed to post feedback about this patch yet!

http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__100

Quote

Please provide your feedback about this patch in the appropriate forums once it is actually live.
Thank you!

[EnigmaNL]

Elder Thorn, on 18 December 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

hey Mods, lock this thread, we are not allowed to post feedback about this patch yet!

http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__100

This isn't feedback, this is speculation. There is no rule against that.

[Dracol]

Removing r&r and replacing it with the statistical average of player base I believe is a good move. Now, y'all be able to field any mech you're able to purchase.

Now the game will be who has the best skill in the mech they choose to field and not who has the best accounting skills to field what they want to.

The meat and potatoes of this game is what happens on the bettlefield and hopefully this will make it enjoyable for more people.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Elder Thorn, on 18 December 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

hey Mods, lock this thread, we are not allowed to post feedback about this patch yet!

http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__100

Good lord, backseat moderate much? How many threads are you going to post this in..... Not sure what moderator hurt you but you need to just let it go...

If the mods deem this thread should be locked, I'm sure one of them will do so without needing your seal of approval.

[PanicFire]

We will have to wait and see how the new rewards w/o RnR goes. In the end it may be not far from what you'd get after repairs with the old rewards system.

This goes live today correct? Lets see some posts with before/after numbers.

[Sp4wNers]

Elder Thorn, on 18 December 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

hey Mods, lock this thread, we are not allowed to post feedback about this patch yet!

http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__100

I think you should call the police also.

[PanicFire]

Elder Thorn, on 18 December 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

hey Mods, lock this thread, we are not allowed to post feedback about this patch yet!

http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__100

Really? Seems a bit overkill to call for a lock.

[Elder Thorn]

Ehrithane, on 18 December 2012 - 05:38 AM, said:

Good lord, backseat moderate much? How many threads are you going to post this in..... Not sure what moderator hurt you but you need to just let it go...

If the mods deem this thread should be locked, I'm sure one of them will do so without needing your seal of approval.

oh it's jsut a heads up for the mods, because it seems as if they overlooked so many threads but hey... i guess it's only because there was to much negative thoughts in that locked thread.

I am unhappy with the course of moderation in these forums for a while now, but i always though "hey it's ok, its THEIR forums, not mine" but seriously? People seem to care about this game and are getting frustrated more and more with every patch. Yes, maybe not everyone, but many. I had other mods moving threads to crowded areas to shut them up instead of locking them, some just lock them away.
It's as if they don't want anyone to read the negative stuff, i am not even one of those, who are COMPLETLY against removing RnR, in general i'd say, lets wait a few days and see, but this moderation action was just arrogant, stupid and a slap in our faces, so i spit back with all i can, not that i seriously expect a reaction by the mods...

Be honest: This thread here is about exactly the same content and it doesn't get locked, because the general opinion here is more positive.

Edit:
So in fact, this is not a 'seal of approval' it's a seal of DISapproval

Edited by Elder Thorn, 18 December 2012 - 06:39 AM.

[PanicFire]

Elder Thorn, on 18 December 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

oh it's jsut a heads up for the mods, because it seems as if they overlooked so many threads but hey... i guess it's only because there was to much negative thoughts in that locked thread.

I am unhappy with the course of moderation in these forums for a while now, but i always though "hey it's ok, its THEIR forums, not mine" but seriously? People seem to care about this game and are getting frustrated more and more with every patch. Yes, maybe not everyone, but many. I had other mods moving threads to crowded areas to shut them up instead of locking them, some just lock them away.
It's as if they don't want anyone to read the negative stuff, i am not even one of those, who are COMPLETLY against removing RnR, in general i'd say, lets wait a few days and see, but this moderation action was just arrogant, stupid and a slap in our faces, so i spit back with all i can, not that i seriously expect a reaction by the mods...

Be honest: This thread here is about exactly the same content and it doesn't get locked, because the general opinion here is more positive.

Edit:
So in fact, this is not a 'seal of approval' it's a seal of DISapproval

So let me get this straight, you are calling for this to be locked out of spite for other threads that was locked? Did I read that right?

[EnigmaNL]

Elder Thorn, on 18 December 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

Long nonsensical post...

Basically, you are a wannabe mod and you disagree with their way of moderating. G T F O

Nothing on these forums require your seal of approval .


Ontopic, I'm eagerly awaiting the new patch. I'm hoping it will turn out better than I expected but we will see.

The free 8mil will be nice as well, maybe I can buy a Stalker

Edited by EnigmaNL, 18 December 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[Elder Thorn]

PanicFire, on 18 December 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

So let me get this straight, you are calling for this to be locked out of spite for other threads that was locked? Did I read that right?

nope, you got that wrong, i am calling for NOT locking threads like this.

EnigmaNL, on 18 December 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Basically, you are a wannabe mod and you disagree with their way of moderating. G T F O

Nothing on these forums require your seal of approval .

You think i am a wannabe mod? yeeeaaah sure, if i where, i would tell people what language to use and what not, but i don't.
You are the wannabe mod here, as you try to tell me what i am allowed to do and what not, i just express that i disagree with a mod, sure you can argue about the way i am doing this, i 100% understand, that not everyone will see this as the right way and this is ok, but in the end... what you say to me, goes also for you. Noone cares if you are ok with what i do, we will need a mod to decide that for us i guess and even if he decides to shut me up, i know that my compaints did not go unnoticed, which is what i wanted

Edited by Elder Thorn, 18 December 2012 - 07:32 AM.

[PanicFire]

Elder Thorn, on 18 December 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

nope, you got that wrong, i am calling for NOT locking threads like this.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Elizander]

EnigmaNL, on 18 December 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

Basically, you are a wannabe mod and you disagree with their way of moderating. G T F O

Nothing on these forums require your seal of approval .


Ontopic, I'm eagerly awaiting the new patch. I'm hoping it will turn out better than I expected but we will see.

The free 8mil will be nice as well, maybe I can buy a Stalker

PanicFire, on 18 December 2012 - 07:21 AM, said:

So let me get this straight, you are calling for this to be locked out of spite for other threads that was locked? Did I read that right?

Sp4wNers, on 18 December 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

I think you should call the police also.

It's okay guys. Just let it slide. Patch will be coming here soon anyway and it's not worth arguing over this. Let him stay with his opinion and leave it at that. There's no real need to argue with everyone who has a negative opinion in these forums.

We'll patch in a few hours so we should be able to get more details. See you soon after the patch.

[Elder Thorn]

Elizander, on 18 December 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

It's okay guys. Just let it slide. Patch will be coming here soon anyway and it's not worth arguing over this. Let him stay with his opinion and leave it at that. There's no real need to argue with everyone who has a negative opinion in these forums.

We'll patch in a few hours so we should be able to get more details. See you soon after the patch.

i'm not even THAT negative about the patch at all. I don't think that the removal of RnR will lower the number of afk farmers at all, but i don't know if i am right with this, i absolutly COULD be wrong.
In the end i think, as long as you earn only 1k c-bills per match, no matter how good or bad you do, there will be afk farmers. If you do nothing in a match, you should earn nothing or even LOSE money, for example to repairs.

Just to say something on the topic...

Edited by Elder Thorn, 18 December 2012 - 07:41 AM.

[DLS]

Too tired/lazy to re-read the Economic notes but my limited understanding is that now you will NEVER lose money. ZERO RISK. NADA. ZILCH! First this statement. "LIFE! Is a big risk. Every second we breath is a gift" ... What I mean is this no matter what you do there is the chance at loss/injury. Drive a car? You might be involved in an accident. Get out of bed? You might slip and fall. Don't get out of bed? No exercise = heart attack etc. I am going to use Ultima Online as my example but any of the big MMOs should work I do believe. In UO (I am sure others can give better examples but tbh Idc). UO is @ 15 years old now and it STILL has paying customers. In UO if you leave town with your best armor/weapons/etc and you die there is the chance you will lose EVERYTHING you were carrying. Some people say well that makes the game too much like work. It may be "work" but it is work that us gamers actually enjoy. We find people with common interests and we make our teams fit our goals so that we minimize that risk. Our single goal is TO HAVE FUN! I think a large portion of us ENJOY working the numbers to figure out what works best for us. We understand there is (well WAS) a risk. We weren't complaining that we were losing (I suck as a pilot and I rarely actually LOST money) what we were upset at was some of the inequities in costs. LRM vs Ballistics vs 75% free RnR. I have a LOT of free time at work and have thus read a lot of the forums and tbh I can not remember too many people (if any) saying get rid of RnR. Tweak the numbers yes but get rid of it? IF we didn't want some risk (OMGawd we have to work to have the shineys!) you know what ... we would go play Counter Strike (or todays equivalent). MWO not be Pay to win but this is a step in that direction. I paid the $60 for a founders package and while money is tight for me I was going to make it work to give you atleast $5 per month once the game "went live" BUT there is now no risk/cost. I will be able to buy/sell mechs at leisure w/o the need for more bays. Its the only way I will lose CBills. So why should I invest my time/money? This hasn't nerfed afk'ers. This has simply made it where they KNOW they will make a minimum of 25k per match.

*** JUST FOR YOU PGI!!! Again go look at the big MMOs!!! WoW, UO, Everquest, EVE etc etc etc ... THERE IS A CHANCE AT LOSS. The RISK is our adrenaline rush. It is for lack of a better term our Crack Addiction! **

... Ok I do have an STO account and I do not think there is any risk involved in it but guess what ... I havent logged in to STO but twice since I started MWO. In roughly 90 days of MWO in maybe half a dozen days have I not managed get at least a single match.

TL:DR - PGI I have been having a blast (ignoring the occasional CTD etc) since I joined closed beta in Sept and rarely have I "complained" but IMO getting rid of RnR costs may be the single biggest mistake you all have made so far. Do you all even skim through the forums? Do you listen to our concerns?!

[PanicFire]

DLS, on 18 December 2012 - 07:41 AM, said:

Too tired/lazy to re-read the Economic notes but my limited understanding is that now you will NEVER lose money. ZERO RISK. NADA. ZILCH! First this statement. "LIFE! Is a big risk. Every second we breath is a gift" ... What I mean is this no matter what you do there is the chance at loss/injury. Drive a car? You might be involved in an accident. Get out of bed? You might slip and fall. Don't get out of bed? No exercise = heart attack etc. I am going to use Ultima Online as my example but any of the big MMOs should work I do believe. In UO (I am sure others can give better examples but tbh Idc). UO is @ 15 years old now and it STILL has paying customers. In UO if you leave town with your best armor/weapons/etc and you die there is the chance you will lose EVERYTHING you were carrying. Some people say well that makes the game too much like work. It may be "work" but it is work that us gamers actually enjoy. We find people with common interests and we make our teams fit our goals so that we minimize that risk. Our single goal is TO HAVE FUN! I think a large portion of us ENJOY working the numbers to figure out what works best for us. We understand there is (well WAS) a risk. We weren't complaining that we were losing (I suck as a pilot and I rarely actually LOST money) what we were upset at was some of the inequities in costs. LRM vs Ballistics vs 75% free RnR. I have a LOT of free time at work and have thus read a lot of the forums and tbh I can not remember too many people (if any) saying get rid of RnR. Tweak the numbers yes but get rid of it? IF we didn't want some risk (OMGawd we have to work to have the shineys!) you know what ... we would go play Counter Strike (or todays equivalent). MWO not be Pay to win but this is a step in that direction. I paid the $60 for a founders package and while money is tight for me I was going to make it work to give you atleast $5 per month once the game "went live" BUT there is now no risk/cost. I will be able to buy/sell mechs at leisure w/o the need for more bays. Its the only way I will lose CBills. So why should I invest my time/money? This hasn't nerfed afk'ers. This has simply made it where they KNOW they will make a minimum of 25k per match.

*** JUST FOR YOU PGI!!! Again go look at the big MMOs!!! WoW, UO, Everquest, EVE etc etc etc ... THERE IS A CHANCE AT LOSS. The RISK is our adrenaline rush. It is for lack of a better term our Crack Addiction! **

... Ok I do have an STO account and I do not think there is any risk involved in it but guess what ... I havent logged in to STO but twice since I started MWO. In roughly 90 days of MWO in maybe half a dozen days have I not managed get at least a single match.

TL:DR - PGI I have been having a blast (ignoring the occasional CTD etc) since I joined closed beta in Sept and rarely have I "complained" but IMO getting rid of RnR costs may be the single biggest mistake you all have made so far. Do you all even skim through the forums? Do you listen to our concerns?!

Here is a key part of the Reward changes that may make it not as bad as you expect. Again we will see.

Quote

Too help balance out the economy with RNR removed, we have rebalanced the existing C-Bill reward system to reflect the average NET rewards. NET rewards would be the average CB earned by players after repairing and rearming their mechs in the current version of MWO.

[DLS]

Quote

To help balance out the economy with RNR removed, we have rebalanced the existing C-Bill reward system to reflect the average NET rewards. NET rewards would be the average CB earned by players after repairing and rearming their mechs in the current version of MWO.

"Average NET rewards" ... which still implies they average what everyone has made (+/-) ... Still reads as though there is no risk :/ ... Like you and everyone else has said we shall see how they finish the implementation but I still think the total removal of RnR (aka risk) is a mistake. Most of the time when I was playing UO or MWO I have made money (CBills) but there has been that rare occasion where I did lose money. People bash the "Real world economics" that are applied to MMOs and I admit there is a problem with insane amounts of gold farming/inflation but IMO PGI had the system just about right they just needed to tweak the rewards numbers a bit higher. I would have loved to have seen a progression of being able to swap equipment with fellow merc corp mates.

I do however like the idea of rewarding new players with the sliding scale to help them in to their own mechs. BUT 8 Million over 25 matches seems a bit excessive. 8M + (25k * 25 matches) = 8.6M. 25 matches, at least for me, is just one extended sitting period. That means new people can be piloting an ATLAS RS in a day! Just seems like the economics of that are a bit skewed. Perhaps 8M over 100 matches would have been a bit better? That is 1-2 weeks of gaming for the casual+/weekend gamer.