78 replies to this topic

[Noodlesoup]

i use xl all the time in everything from lights to heavies, it give me more room for dakka dakka and my survivability depends on my tactics more than whether or not i can afford to lose a torso.

[soarra]

im just hoping to see more atlas and hunchies with xl's .

[Kiiyor]

themoob, on 17 December 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

Like many others, it wasn't price stopping me from using XL engines... it's the squishiness.

There's truth in that statement. I barely noticed XL repair costs, even in an XL385 speed Awesome. What I DID notice was the HORRIFYING cost of Artemis ammo... especially if some mean ******* had caused it all to explode at some point in a match. I run a standard engine 4 x Artemis SRM Awesome, and replacing/rearming ammo counted for around two thirds of my repair bill.

I got around this by adding more overall ammo tonnage, and using the free repair and rearm. I guess the folks at PGI did some data mining and found more people were starting to adopt this. There's no point having expensive ammo if no-one actually pays for it.

I was initially against the idea (not foaming at the mouth OH-DEAR-GOD-I-HAVE-TO-POST-ABOUT-THIS levels of against it) but now I think it's a good call. In a way, I think soon to be old system inadvertently penalized anyone willing to actually roll up their mechanical sleeves for some hardcore mechanical fisticuffs, as their profit margins took a beating in increasing proportion to the damage they received in battle, especially if they didn't score kills.

The only thing i'm worried about now will be the blood in the water feeding frenzies around getting kills. I can see puggers being even less inclined to engage in actual teamwork, and even more inclined towards causing juicy bits and pieces of enemy internal structure to lucratively combust, while clawing and snapping at each other over kills like bloody hyenas.

I'd like to say i'm above that myself, but even now I tend to ferociously chase completely combat ineffective enemies, even if my friends are being pummeled beside me. Now i'll have even greater cash incentives to do it.

"GAH! Kiiyor, that guy is ruined, leave him! This Atlas is pounding me like cheap beef! Help!"

"JUST A BLOODY SECOND MATE, PAPA NEEDS HIS PAYDAY!"

I'm probably overreacting. I guess I should reserve judgement for actually seeing how it plays out, but this is the internet. If you're not overreacting, you're not doing it right.

[Ozric]

When the last patch hit, I was leveling a LLAS X1 with a XL300 engine and a guass cannon in the right torso. Good times. I was basically a firework.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

TruePoindexter, on 17 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Snipers/support/scouts use XL now as much as before... so really what are you saying?

Brawling with XL leaves you squishier than using a standard engine. It wasn't being used in most combat because of this not because of the cost.

why would snipers use xl... My k-2 uses the smallest engine it can and I never get killed cause ppl dont like engaging the sniper... dunno why

Ozric, on 17 December 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

When the last patch hit, I was leveling a LLAS X1 with a XL300 engine and a guass cannon in the right torso. Good times. I was basically a firework.

Ive been using a founders atlas with 3 ERLAGLAS cause I figured Id get more money with no ammo

[Lucian Nostra]

3 pages and no one has hit the all important thing with XL engines. Who runs an XL engine and ever pays the repairs on it?? I have 3 mechs with XLs and I have never repaired the engines. So how is the drop of RnR going to suddenly create an XL engine boom when the repair cost hasn't ever been an issue??

[malibu43]

I, for one, haven't been running an XL due to repair costs. Now, I will.

But this is only in my Dragon, where it kinda makes sense... No way in hell I'm putting one on my HBK.

[Tickdoff Tank]

PANZERBUNNY, on 17 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

...when R&R is removed.

We're going to see the swarms rush to dump an XL in their rides because they won't have to pay the price of dying with them, so get in the habit of sniping those torsos, driving all those new players they "attracted" with this feature removal to the forums to complain about how easy it is to die with and XL engine, forcing the devs to respond, changing the game further, pandering to the masses that will ditch this game when a new COD hits the shops.

You may go about your business.

Most people do not run an XL because of the increased vulnerability it brings to the mech, the increased repair bill is just a side effect.

If people start running the XL due to the reduced cost of repairs (well, removal of the repair cost) they will quickly find that the XL engine is still vulnerable. I like the XL in many mechs, but it is not a good fit for all mechs and the change to R&R does not change that at all.

[Red squirrel]

Mhh.... would be nice so I get even more kills....

But honestly there are builds that benefit from XL and builds that dont.
For me it is only a question of sanity and enough C-Bills to buy a piece of equipment that costs more than most mechs.

XL: light mechs, support mechs that are not supposed to be in the front and mechs with small side torso and large CT hit boxes (the CAT works great with XLs I get killed via side torsos <10%)

std: Assault mechs that want to survive as well as most heavy mechs. Also I dont use XLs on most of my mediums (only cicada and CN9-D) Actually one of my HBK builds has the largest std engine, max armor and still 0only 49.6 tons.

[AEgg]

PANZERBUNNY, on 17 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

Do you not remember the mammoth amount of threads crying about the cost of repairing XLs?

Do people forget so soon?

Also, you get new people who think the natural progression is to grind up to an XL for moar pew pew.

Anyone who has played any length of time may not like the squishy, but without paying for the repair, it becomes more attractive to those without a large bankroll of c-bills.

It's been a few months since you consistently lost cbills for running an XL engine, win or lose. We were still making several million from a win at that time.

When they redid the economy, the cost of an XL engine has become pretty negligible. The only unusually expensive item is missle ammo.

[SVK Puskin]

PANZERBUNNY, on 17 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

...when R&R is removed.

We're going to see the swarms rush to dump an XL in their rides because they won't have to pay the price of dying with them, so get in the habit of sniping those torsos, driving all those new players they "attracted" with this feature removal to the forums to complain about how easy it is to die with and XL engine, forcing the devs to respond, changing the game further, pandering to the masses that will ditch this game when a new COD hits the shops.

You may go about your business.

I do not like XL engines, so go on, shoot my side torsos, no problem.

[Red squirrel]

I for one must say this is - in along time - the first design decission in this game I really appreciate. Since the repair thing achieved nothing but to alienate new players that hav few c-bills and die a lot.
This argument people will use more XL and whatever .... is just rediculous. (see my post above)

I might finally use FF. It is so useless right now and even without repair costs it still is bahh 14 slots for what 0.77 tons on that Commando?? WTF!?
So yes in case I got 15-17 empty slots I will now fit FF in there and get 1 addtional heat sink.

Kiiyor, on 17 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm probably overreacting. I guess I should reserve judgement for actually seeing how it plays out, but this is the internet. If you're not overreacting, you're not doing it right.

[Leetskeet]

Hey, guess what. Anyone that had a clue wasn't repairing items or ammo anyway. 30-40k for the structure and armor.

lol @ people paying repair bills

[LaserAngel]

AEgg, on 17 December 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

It's been a few months since you consistently lost cbills for running an XL engine, win or lose. We were still making several million from a win at that time.

When they redid the economy, the cost of an XL engine has become pretty negligible. The only unusually expensive item is missle ammo.

I found myself losing C-Bills on my Awesome 9M's XL 385 on a match loss. Total repairs would come to 109K along with rearm. Everybody was living on welfare or you could just manually repair your components except the XL engine. It gives you what, one more hit if you repair it?

My metal babies are so cheap that repairing the XL 200/210 engine on them isn't noticeable.

Edited by LaserAngel, 17 December 2012 - 04:20 PM.

[Inappropriate1191]

I'm glad the RnR costs are gone. I always felt that XL engines should've never costed a dime more in repair because the fact that you double your chances of getting killed by fitting one was more than enough of a balance. Like LaserAngel said, I never repaired my XL engines, because of the armor on my torsos was gone, I was likely dead anyways.

[FunkyFritter]

1. Everyone rushes out and installs an XL engine
2. People exploit side torso vulnerability
3. People realize that XL engines have a significant drawback and start being selective with them

Now everyone's a better player and people pick their engine based on strategic implications rather than how much grinding they're willing to put up with. Sounds like a win-win scenario to me.

[Kousagi]

XL's cost a lot to repair? Wonder what game you are playing. Only thing most people take in to concentration about XL's is if their side torsos get blown off a lot.

[soarra]

FF armor and missiles were the only expensive repair since OB.

[bensphynx]

It seems odd to me that people are choosing not to use XLs. I've been using them almost exclusively, and never repairing them. So ironically, this patch will make my mechs more durable, rather than less, as it will keep repairing my engines for me.

[CDLord HHGD]

PANZERBUNNY, on 17 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

...when R&R is removed.

We're going to see the swarms rush to dump an XL in their rides because they won't have to pay the price of dying with them, so get in the habit of sniping those torsos, driving all those new players they "attracted" with this feature removal to the forums to complain about how easy it is to die with and XL engine, forcing the devs to respond, changing the game further, pandering to the masses that will ditch this game when a new COD hits the shops.

You may go about your business.

You don't already?