82 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Stone Profit, on 17 December 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

Do you have evidence that he specifically is a "Whining Founder"? Or is this more of your usual baseless vitriol? I swear, you and Vassagogel are competing mighty hard for title of "King Troll". Heaven forbid someone disagree with you. What happened in your poor sad existence made you so... Hateful?

I'm from Holland. Where the **** you from?

[Mech Merc]

I love X3.

The solution makes the game feel like an arcade game. For me the thrill is fighting for survival and victory because defeat means a bruised pride and a hefty repair bill.

[Tor6]

Having people afraid to die just made it more likely that they'd bug out or try futily to flee and let their team down. I want everyone on my team giving it their all and trying to win. If that means I or they have to sacrifice their mech to hold a cap point for a few more seconds or die holding off a push while our guys cap or outmanuever the enemy to kill them, so be it.

It was frustrating playing and seeing a cap in progress (with 3 or so mechs) that you might theoretically have been able to stop and having the game tell you 'yea you could try... but it'll cost you 50k that you could save as profit by just walking away and letting them finish'. Previously the game disincentivized you from trying to be brave and really help the team out if it'd hurt your own income. Now people actually have a reason to go all in and put their mech on the line to help the team out.

Sure there's a few neat things that repair and rearm brought to the table, but in the end economic balancing is a horrible mechanic in a game like this. I want everyone I drop with playing their best every round, not skimping on equipment and ammo and repairs because they feel they can farm better by just throwing 3 large lasers on an atlas and calling it a day. Those playing exclusively in 4 mans probably didnt' have to deal with that much, but I know I ran into a number of folks on my team and the other team over the last months while 4-manning and pugging that obviously had half-complete mechs to farm better. They'd just pulled the missiles/AC off their mechs to save on reloads without even bothering to up the non-missile armament. And that shouldn't happen in this game.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Super Mono, on 17 December 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

Go play something like X3 if you want a game with a harsh economy, with gameplay that actually rewards you for interacting with the economy.

The economy for MWO made no sense as the only way to win it was to not play, either by skipping repairs and rearms as much as possible or not fighting to avoid damage and expending ammo.

Ya the best ways to make money were to run in and die, blow yourself up, or sit AFK. Because all of these paid you in full for the match even if you didn't bring guns to shoot, and also didn't require you to actually pay the repair bill. I can't support an economy that encourages players to AFK or ride into battle with 25% then die, rather than actually fight.

[Kousagi]

OP, You do know that this is going to be more of a econ nerf then a buff right?... Cause RnR is getting removed, but they are also lowering rewards earned, and also making them more performance based, so if anything its forcing people to raise their skill level, not lower it. The Econ change is a good thing.

Though Do Ignore Sifright and vassago. They are starting to make Zverofaust look like a genius.

[Teralitha]

Mech Merc, on 17 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I love X3.

The solution makes the game feel like an arcade game. For me the thrill is fighting for survival and victory because defeat means a bruised pride and a hefty repair bill.

And yet, the repair bill is nullified by the loss reward... almost as if there was no repair bill at all. So your still left with bruised pride. Nothing has changed, you can go on about your daily losing.

[TruePoindexter]

Mech Merc, on 17 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I love X3.

The solution makes the game feel like an arcade game. For me the thrill is fighting for survival and victory because defeat means a bruised pride and a hefty repair bill.

No it doesn't. If you think removing repair and rearm and instead rewarding performance changes the game into an Arcade game or dumbs the game down you're either not paying attention to what the changes are or have ulterior motives.

And that's just it. You aren't actually upset over the change to the economy. You just like delighting in punishing people. The fact that you want to bruise someone with a repair bill gives that away.

[Raidyr]

The beginning of the end was having a F2P title with an absurd amount of grind, and having a Mechwarrior title that doesn't even let you access Mechlab for several hours, in which you have to drive mechs you don't like and are objectively worse than makes you are put up against.

Hopefully these changes see some player growth.

[Kaspirikay]

ExecutorImperious, on 17 December 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

If you want ~CONSEQUENCES~ you should hit your computer with a hammer each time you blow up.

Delete mech everytime it explodes.

[Mech Merc]

Tor6, on 17 December 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

Having people afraid to die just made it more likely that they'd bug out or try futily to flee and let their team down. I want everyone on my team giving it their all and trying to win. If that means I or they have to sacrifice their mech to hold a cap point for a few more seconds or die holding off a push while our guys cap or outmanuever the enemy to kill them, so be it.

It was frustrating playing and seeing a cap in progress (with 3 or so mechs) that you might theoretically have been able to stop and having the game tell you 'yea you could try... but it'll cost you 50k that you could save as profit by just walking away and letting them finish'. Previously the game disincentivized you from trying to be brave and really help the team out if it'd hurt your own income. Now people actually have a reason to go all in and put their mech on the line to help the team out.

Sure there's a few neat things that repair and rearm brought to the table, but in the end economic balancing is a horrible mechanic in a game like this. I want everyone I drop with playing their best every round, not skimping on equipment and ammo and repairs because they feel they can farm better by just throwing 3 large lasers on an atlas and calling it a day. Those playing exclusively in 4 mans probably didnt' have to deal with that much, but I know I ran into a number of folks on my team and the other team over the last months while 4-manning and pugging that obviously had half-complete mechs to farm better. They'd just pulled the missiles/AC off their mechs to save on reloads without even bothering to up the non-missile armament. And that shouldn't happen in this game.

To me this isn't a solution - I'd rather have my entire team form AFK or disconnect and have my mech destroyed in a hail or laser fire than have mech magically repaired at the end of each battle.

[Mongoose Trueborn]

Vassago Rain, on 17 December 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

How will DHB make a profit if they have to fight?

WTF does that even mean?

The top people in the game are going to make all the credits. You, on the other hand, will probably go broke and not be able to afford mechs without premium and MC.

[UXB]

TruePoindexter, on 17 December 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

What....

There's a consequence in dying - not winning. You'll still earn less if you lose.

Really? Look at the announcement again. they've made the rewards for winning/tying and losing exactly the same. Yes, you'll get more salvage, and maybe more activity space bucks, but I bet the difference is much narrower. after, it's 2012, and EVERYONE is a winner!

[One Medic Army]

Vassago Rain, on 17 December 2012 - 05:18 PM, said:

I'm from Holland. Where the **** you from?

I lived in Holland (Delft) for a year, I thought it was a nice place.

[TruePoindexter]

UXB, on 17 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Really? Look at the announcement again. they've made the rewards for winning/tying and losing exactly the same. Yes, you'll get more salvage, and maybe more activity space bucks, but I bet the difference is much narrower. after, it's 2012, and EVERYONE is a winner!

And kill/kill assist bonuses. Because those don't exist after all.

One Medic Army, on 17 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

I lived in Holland (Delft) for a year, I thought it was a nice place.

I visited it. I hated it. Damn trollies kept trying to run me over and no one wanted to accept a credit card. I did find a hilarious zombie Obama poster there though.

[Sifright]

Kousagi, on 17 December 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

OP, You do know that this is going to be more of a econ nerf then a buff right?... Cause RnR is getting removed, but they are also lowering rewards earned, and also making them more performance based, so if anything its forcing people to raise their skill level, not lower it. The Econ change is a good thing.

Though Do Ignore Sifright and vassago. They are starting to make Zverofaust look like a genius.

Cool story bro,

it's a good thing i've not advocated for anything like this at all eh?

I mean it's not like I've not been saying rewards needs to shift towards performance to remove suiciding as a viable money making procedure.

It's not like I haven't banged on about the trial mech grind being too long and harmful to the game.

it's not like PGI hasn't taken this on board and glory be implemented many of the changes I thought and said needed being changed.

but no yea, I must just be a troll after all I don't agree with people that hold objectively terrible opinions because they can't handle the status quo ever changing.

[Super Mono]

Mech Merc, on 17 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I love X3.

The solution makes the game feel like an arcade game. For me the thrill is fighting for survival and victory because defeat means a bruised pride and a hefty repair bill.

The repair bills were only hefty if you were new to the game and didn't know you could get away with not repairing everything. This is why it had to go, experienced players bypass it and it keeps new players down in the ditch longer.

[Sifright]

an economic system cannot be the only thing between a game being 'arcady' and a 'simulation'

Otherwise need for speed underground would be a simulation.... and lets be honest here that would be a horrific thing to say.

[Vassago Rain]

Mongoose Trueborn, on 17 December 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

WTF does that even mean?

The top people in the game are going to make all the credits. You, on the other hand, will probably go broke and not be able to afford mechs without premium and MC.

Let me see.
I have 20+ mechs, and will buy 3 stalkers when they get released. Then I'll max them. Now I get rewarded for my gigantic damages and hard work, while DHB don't get anything from avoiding fights. So...



I guess I get the last laugh again. Or will they show Kong up on 8 manz with their LRM atlases again?

[Ryvucz]

I would also have to argue that rearm and repair made some players completely chicken.

Such as hiding if they thought they were going to lose, not firing knowing the rearm cost would be high.

You already have people doing dumb things, this just makes those that are too scared maybe, perhaps, grow a pair, and be on the opposite of the poll. (From scared to insanely... uh... violent?)

[Moku]

I think with more cbills in everyones pockets it gives more incentive to buy more mechs which means you need to buy slots to collect them. It's all about money.