142 replies to this topic

[Sifright]

MadcatX, on 18 December 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

If that is the case, then the clans are going to win.

the way the clanners fight even todays modern military would kick the **** out of them

[MadcatX]

Sifright, on 18 December 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

the way the clanners fight even todays modern military would kick the **** out of them

lol, very true.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

This is what PGI has done to all people who have been following the growth of this game since 09' and before.

[ollo]

Rifter, on 18 December 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

I agree, mostly about the win/loss payouts. Its absoluty stupid that you are not rewarded for winning. If both teams tear each other apart and its a 8 kills v 7 kills game the payouts are going to be almost identical.

...as is the performance? What was the problem again?

I think they should not completely abandon win awards, but as i said in closed beta: they should award playing, not winning. Awarding winning means that those already good at what they do (even if it's only pugstomping or baserushing) get even more on top, while the unfortunate (bad/new players, pugs without proper teamplay) make even less - with R&R they'd first lose money by playing, after that they'd lose interest and be gone.

Let's see how this will work out with the current iteration of rewards, then complain, then check again with the next iteration. overall i'm quite happy they (for now) abandoned the R&R which had mostly the wrong effects on gameplay. I wouldn't have minded if they got expenses for tech levels closer together and overall cut max expenses to ~30k, but this was the old system and we just have to wait what will be the effects with the new system.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 December 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

I don't see how it was not working as intended as they stopped using it right after the depression of Sept '12. WAR IS EXPENSIVE. Having no check will not make teh game better, just easier. I never played Battletech cause it was easy. As a Unit commander some of the toughest decissions to make is do I repair the Cataphract, HunchBack & partly fix the Jenner or just The Atlas??? Being responsable for whether I am ready for the next mission is part of MechWarrior. The actual game (remember the Clans?) WIll be a full scale war vs a Superior advesary. It will be expensive, It will be brutal, and because of that challenge is will be fun. Casual Players need Solaris (aka the Games world). Let that world have respawn, and death match, power up pellets and Bonsai Bubbles. Solaris is for the faint of heart, the casual players. The Clans are for the players who can acccept they are not going to win everytime... or for that mater most the time. It is for those of us who want to actually play the Clan Invasion as intended. Players who want to fight an enemy that rolled the best the IS had to offer for two years. That is the game I signed up for.

SO Meta game will hopefully seperated the Wheat from the Chaff by giving us The Game World for Casual players and the Clan Invasions who want to simulate the Universe as it was written.

This is very cute, but until they implement mystical community warfare, it's of zero relevance. As far as I'm concerned, your roleplaying is just as effective now as it was with negative income.

You're playing it out in your head, anyway.

[Sifright]

MadcatX, on 18 December 2012 - 03:47 AM, said:

lol, very true.

I've heard people say MBT guns would do like 0.5 armour damage to mech.

The problem is even if that were true given that battalions of modern tanks make kills in excess of 3.5 miles those mechs are getting torn to shreds.

Edited by Sifright, 18 December 2012 - 03:55 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Jade Kitsune, on 18 December 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

This is what PGI has done to all people who have been following the growth of this game since 09' and before.

They improved the situation?

[Xeven]

Vassago Rain, on 18 December 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

There's a difference between a pretend economy for no reason between matches, that punishes you for not using welfare ammo, or reading the forums so much you know you never want to repair items, and having no ammo in the matches.

About heat, it's a binary system. I never overheat, and most people don't. It's useless. You need to stop shooting for a second every ten seconds, and then you go can resume normal operation.

I used wellfare ammo. You would have to be pretty stupid not too. I had some round were ammo cost whre 50k plus. Pretty stupid to throw away 50 k lol.

[Jetfire]

RnR was not working. It didn't help Immersion as anyone running premium time could outright ignore the costs of RnR and anyone not doing so used the free RnR 75% in their builds to game the system.

CW is where RnR needs to go back in and likely it will as a little sub note no one will really pay any attention too as the RnR costs will be covered by the contract but you will only be allowed a certain tonnage and battle value for any given contract. RnR in PUG matchs doesn't really add anything to the experience. I am sorry it was such an important thing to you, but it just doesn't change the game up much except to make the economy more sensible. PGI has been making slow steady progress and this isn't the first time RnR has been removed. Heat and Ammo aren't going anywhere so tone down the hyperbole and drink some chamomile tea.

[MustrumRidcully]

Jade Kitsune, on 18 December 2012 - 03:16 AM, said:

Believe me, I want a full out heat system, and it's been "in the works" for some time... it's always been intended to happen.
Way PGI's been handling things however...

As for me and Vass making out... maybe... maybe. LOL

I believe if the game was in an excellent state in terms of balance, map design and so on, most of us would had a lot less conflicts over it. The getting there part is so difficult.

[MustrumRidcully]

And regarding economy - I believe the economy may have a place in Community Warfare, but at the current level, I don't think it was working.

Management of finances and resources should happen on the level of the mercenary company or the military leaders. It would allow deciding during battle "Is this fight actually worth sending 8 5 Million C-Bills mechs? And how high can the cost of the engagement be to still count as a net gain?"

[Joseph Mallan]

For about 2 1/2 years yes they are supposed to win 98% of every battle.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 18 December 2012 - 03:53 AM, said:

This is very cute, but until they implement mystical community warfare, it's of zero relevance.

Yeah... I know. Sad isn't it. That is what I signed up for MechWarrior for the Playstation (which I still have the disk for).

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 December 2012 - 04:10 AM.

[Codejack]

Jade Kitsune, on 18 December 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Let's have Mechwarrior 4 all over again ok!

We couldn't get the lucky.

[Dagger6T6]

making a Commando explode into bits is going to be the equivalent of hitting a jackpot on a slot machine... I can't wait to see the cbills and xp just spill out all over the place

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Your post sounds a lot like me when I go on a furious rant about something that's been bottling up for some time now.

You know what my dad always told me?, Son, you're right. Everything you said is true, but your timing is terrible.

edit: Point being you're not handling the situation properly, your having a knee-jerk reaction like a hormone enraged teenie bopper. (Knee-jerk reactions filled with dramatical amounts of emotion = you fired)

Edited by M4NTiC0R3X, 18 December 2012 - 07:40 AM.

[deputydog]

Hopefully objectives in community warfare will be the reason to want to win instead of a win bonus from that mission.
Hopefully RnR costs get put into merc/house contracts and tracked when an objective is achieved and a payout to those that participated is awarded.
Hopefully the game continues to evolve and we see some salvage/RnR on a grand scale involving community warefare or merc contracts etc.

The game keeps changing and yes its beta, although its live as well. Im here for the long haul and we just have to have patience when things get removed and redone. It happened with colissions, repairs in the past, matchmakng etc..

[FerretGR]

Jade Kitsune, on 18 December 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

<snip slippery slope fallacy>

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Xeven, on 18 December 2012 - 03:54 AM, said:

I used wellfare ammo. You would have to be pretty stupid not too. I had some round were ammo cost whre 50k plus. Pretty stupid to throw away 50 k lol.

And this, in a nutshell, is why R&R needs to go.

[Kommisar]

I think the OP has a solid point.

There is a huge, unfilled market for a Combat game that does not encourage combat. I suspect that there are thousands of players out there that want to spend their money and time to trick out giant combat robots and then rarely use them. That want to keep a nice, top-notch mech build they love in the garage to show off in screen shots from time to time while they pilot their trial mech.

Okay, I know. I'm being mean and sarcastic.

But here is the simple truth.

Gamers love action.
Gamers play to shoot, kill and destroy their opponents.
If an element of your game takes away from their enjoyment of the above two, then you should remove it.

Please, stop with your overly dramatic straw-man style arguements. You know, like "Fine! Just remove heat and aiming!!! Just making easy-button Battlefield Heroes style !!!" Or whatever. It just reminds me to much of dealing with my 5 year old after I told him that taking a bath tonight is not optional. This does not dumb down the in game play. It just removes the extreme penalty for players like me that like to get into prolonged fire fights.

And the truth of it is, lots of players were moving on to other games because they were getting bored. Bored with the same maps. Bored with the same game mode. But, more than anything, bored with match after match where the two sides just went right by each other to cap without getting into a real fight because getting into a firefight was a dumb idea.

A game where getting into combat is the sub-optimal outcome will not succeed. I'm not exactly sure why this is so hard for so many guys to figure out.

[Vernius Ix]

Sifright, on 18 December 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

u mad bro

He's def mad bro