345 replies to this topic

[Stonefalcon]

I've found that since the new patch has come in I've been making about 60-70k less than when repairs and rearms were in. PGI says this is about right on the average but it's not.

The figures were using now are pretty much based on having your mech blown up every match. What about those people who took care of their mech, thought things through and came away from most battles with a 0-10k repair bill while making 250-280k?

But like all things meant for good people abused the system, I admit to never rearming my Artemis missile boat and instead just equipping more ammo. I never liked the 75% free re-arm and thought it was rather silly to fork out an extra 180-200k to rearm my mech every match when I can pay one time fees of 60k per tonne and never have to pay that again.

I rather liked the repair and rearm scheme, I know a lot of people did, we took care of our mechs and the mechs took care of us, we fought with thought and it showed in the money we made every match.

But it's obvious that something needed to be done to stop a number of issues, that's fine. With the current auto repair taking place gone are the days of people not repairing their mech and jumping into battle after battle suiciding.

I think repairs automatically occurring is right but I don't think it's fair to cost us 60-70k per match to "force" a repair that might have only been 1 Tonne of armour. I think this could have been better achieved for us to receive the old amount of money but after every match have a window coming up saying how much it cost to repair/rearm your mech and force it out.

From what I have read so far regarding repairs it seems it is out the window never to return, personally i think it's a step backwards.

What do you think?

[Spiketail Drake]

I think the repair costs should have been reduced for tier 2 items/upgrades (XL engines, DHS, FF) by about 25%, but no free repairs. As for rearm, drop the ammo costs by half (only on rearm, not when you buy/fit them) and no free rearm.

But I actually like the current economy. On a loss, i make about 40k in a Stalker 3H, on a win about 90k. Max i got was 110k, but I had a good match that time, 3 kills, 4 assist. I'd say that it was a good trade.

[Esk]

Honestly yes it should, but they need to look at the rates (especially on ammo) personally I didn't find it an issue to afford them without founders or premium yeah some games I'd pay out a lot more then I made, but most I wouldn't, or it would be about the same.
Free rearm was a bad idea though, and was abused as OP points out.

I know people like easy I can have everything modes, but meh, I honestly hoped this was a really late April fools joke when i looked at the patch notes., But anyway..

( So it needs a Yes - at reduced costs option for me to vote)

[The Exiled]

well i always fully repaired and rearmed, so for me this is almost the return of the golden age of cash, clearing 225-250k a game is great with the odd 100k thrown in.

Should the rearm be in, probably but as so many people side stepped it why go to the bother. If you were such a fan perhaps you should not have cheesed it so much, maybe they would have found another way to balance the economy but why bother if so many people are avoiding RnR that removing it is the simplest option for them, certainly not going to get a complaint from me given how much i make without costs removed.

[dusted]

I think the problem with RnR was that it often made the difference between making or losing money. The margin was so slim, that saving 40K by skipping the ammo and armor repair was worth dying quicker in match. If you dropped with a mech with more starting armor (atlas), and loaded more ammo, then you could play with no additional cost to dropping with your heavier mech.

To take this issue to the lore, we are all effectively mercenaries now. We are trying to make money. Why would we take a contract that wouldn't even pay to fix up our mechs? Sure, if times were bad and your corps was poor, maybe you would skimp on ammo or armor, but really? No you wouldn't. Because you wouldn't want to die. You'd ask for money up front to get your mech ready for battle.

Having to pay to repair and rearm your mech makes for a more immersive experience, but where is the game play choices? When would you actually want to not repair or rearm? Especially with the free 75%, there was no time that you would not want to make more money, and if you have to just pay for it later then there is no time that it makes sense to not pay for RnR.

I'd like a window to pop up that tells you how much your RnR was, and if you don't have enough money to run that mech, then you have to run another mech to pay for that one. Suck too hard to make any cbills? Then a) you are not a very good mechwarrior, and you will have to use a trial (loaner?) mech until you can make some money. But, that isn't fun. If you want to attract the masses to your game, everyone has to be a winner, and thus, RnR is out.

[Jonas]

See I think R&R should be in the game. I didn't have a problem with the way it was. If anything I think they just needed to adjust the prices of being R&R after each match or increase the rate of C-bill's made per match.

I don't want to see team mates suffering in a match because they didn't fix this or didn't have enough C-bills to fully rearm. But free R&R I think takes away a bit from the game.

I like to see it return but with lower prices.

Anyway that is my 2 Kroner on the subject.

[xMEPHISTOx]

so much fail in there being no repair/rearm...once more PGI goes in the direction of EZ mode gaming...so fail.

[Barsov]

Please return Repear/Rearm. This is an important gameplay part of the all Mechwarrior games. Dont listen the crowd.

[Undead Bane]

I would like to propose the following: make no R&R for faction mechs. Make mercs pay for R&R though (that I say being a merc myself). But this should only go up when CW is up.
Untill then - no R&R is good. I make 190+K each match in a RS. And I like it. But I really would like it to change with CW there - being a merc should be challenging, after all.

Edited by Undead Bane, 18 December 2012 - 06:36 PM.

[Solis Obscuri]

It should come back, with only 25% free repair/rearm (like in CB), but the mission rewards/performance rewards should be a little higher.

[Blahberry]

Barsov, on 18 December 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Please return Repear/Rearm. This is an important gameplay part of the all Mechwarrior games. Dont listen the crowd.

We have ensurance, so they cover it.

Edited by Blahberry, 18 December 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[BoomDog]

Two reasons why this was a good idea.

1. People can now play the mech they want to play when trying to make cbills.

2. It removes the dramatic disadvantage solo pug players have when trying to make cbills. It didn't matter how good the player is, if he is fighting a 4 man team, odds are that he's going to lose.

[Zolaz]

Not sure why PGI went with a less immersive experience.

[SteelShrike]

Undead Bane, on 18 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

I would like to propose the following: make no R&R for faction mechs. Make mercs pay for R&R though (that I say being a merc myself). But this should only go up when CW is up.
Untill then - no R&R is good. I make 190+K each match in a RS. And I like it. But I really would like it to change with CW there - being a merc should be challenging, after all.

I pretty much feel this way myself. At the moment, the game doesn't really have the elements to support repairing and rearming in a way that actually improves the immersion or gameplay. It's just a hinderance. Once they get to where there's a real persistent universe, potentially with the ability to band together into a merc unit, with a commander to manage it, the ability to pool resources, etc., then it'll make sense, and it'd be quite awesome I imagine. But right now, with 90% of the games being PUGs, and all battles just being skirmishes with no real "immersion" to speak of... it's just getting in the way. I hope it comes back. But now isn't the time for it. They've got a long ways to go still with the in-game combat, adding in the rest of the 'Mechs, and even just tweaking and balancing the weapons and items before they should start worrying about the meta aspect of the game.

Essentially, as MWO stands now, it's purely a deathmatch game like Quake Live, and not an MMO. Once they get to the actual MMO part, then the persistence and economy should make a return, where it will be better suited.

Edited by SteelShrike, 18 December 2012 - 10:11 PM.

[QuantumButler]

No

[GalaxyBluestar]

i'd like it back when the weapons are balanced and the matchmaking's in order, till then we've got more leg room for testing more stuff and giving feedback. bring back the immersive game when it's not holding up developement of the game.

[Vermaxx]

Everyone who is making LESS right now is subsidizing an assault player who is now averaging MORE.

I don't honestly know if we should go back, or what it would look like. Everyone is generally getting paid 'less' than previous win figures so most people will see a slowdown in mech purchases. They've speedbumped everyone who wasn't being 100% honest in an expensive mech. Those people are now getting subsidized.

I don't really know. As my friend said, logic dictates that R/R will come back, considering how much work they did on items having HP and damage and theoretically looking into lesser function for damaged items.

Still, it would be funny if they scrapped all of it and just went with tabletop crit rules, this pay scale, and no repair fees.

[Karyudo ds]

Undead Bane, on 18 December 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

I would like to propose the following: make no R&R for faction mechs. Make mercs pay for R&R though (that I say being a merc myself). But this should only go up when CW is up.
Untill then - no R&R is good. I make 190+K each match in a RS. And I like it. But I really would like it to change with CW there - being a merc should be challenging, after all.

This. I liked RNR but the prices for some of the gear felt so silly when they had game "balancing" (from Battletech) downsides to them built because campaign tracking wasn't a mandatory way to play the game. If they just tweaked a few numbers I would have been happier but it really seems Mercenaries are the ones that would really deal with it more directly.

Plus who doesn't like a hardcore option?

[Deadoon]

I would have no problem is they had kept R+R, but they need to regularize the armor repair and the xl engine repair costs.
The repair costs from 75% armor with standard were easily higher than a xl engine brought down to 25%.

XL engines were expensive yeah, but 5x standard engine repair costs? Expected but excessive considering the vulnerability of using an xl engine.

Karyudo ds, on 18 December 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

This. I liked RNR but the prices for some of the gear felt so silly when they had game "balancing" (from Battletech) downsides to them built because campaign tracking wasn't a mandatory way to play the game. If they just tweaked a few numbers I would have been happier but it really seems Mercenaries are the ones that would really deal with it more directly.

Plus who doesn't like a hardcore option?

There is no issue with having a hardcore option, the average player( the most common kind) however doesn't like hardcore mode being shoved upon them.

Edited by Deadoon, 18 December 2012 - 10:28 PM.

[Khushrenada]

without R&R something is definetively missing!

no one needs to think about how to arm your mech or how to equip your mech any more. they don`t even need to care if they do suicide runs with xl engines anymore...
a big part of the game where you had to think a bit about customization of your mech went down the drain...

while they are at it, go back to the silly hartpoint system of old mechwarrior titles, so people can equip 15+ medium lasers on their assault mechs... fixes the boating problem, so everyone can boat like he wants and no one is at a disadvantage, right?

the R&R had its flaws, but abandoning it cause they failed to find a solution is the wrong way in my opinion. people drop into matches without repairs? ok, let only fully repaired mechs be available for matches, whats the problem with that? really easy fix and i doubt the other problems can`t be solved as well.