10 replies to this topic

[Vila deVere]

OK... We have a new night map... yea! So I switch on night vision and what do I get? An abomination! Seriously night vision hasn;t looked like that since the 60's. Here is was a PVS-14... the standard issue night vision device of the U.S. military looks like:



Notice... no raster lines, very little bloom. I use one of these for work occasionally, and you can read a newspaper with them.

And these aren't even cutting edge. The latest and greatest is a combined thermal/image intensifier image (so-called ENVGs):



why does our 31st century night vision look like it's from 1962?

Edited by Vila deVere, 18 December 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[Krivvan]

The night vision is actually pretty dam useful now. I love it frankly. The thermal is better for spotting mechs, especially at a distance but is very blurry, disorientating and hard to target specific components. The night vision gives more detail, is clearer and allows for precise shots.

Bringing current technology into this means nothing when most modern rifles have ranges longer than most of the weapons in the game.

It looks like it's from 1962 because the universe of Battletech is like the 1970s/80s vision of sci fi. It's not exactly supposed to be high tech.

Edited by Krivvan, 18 December 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[Vila deVere]

Krivvan, on 18 December 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

The night vision is actually pretty dam useful now. I love it frankly. The thermal is better for spotting mechs, especially at a distance but is very blurry, disorientating and hard to target specific components. The night vision gives more detail, is clearer and allows for precise shots.

Bringing current technology into this means nothing when most modern rifles have ranges longer than most of the weapons in the game.

It looks like it's from 1962 because the universe of Battletech is like the 1970s/80s vision of sci fi. It's not exactly high tech.

I was using NVG's in the 70's and 80's too. They were better than our 31st century "night vision".... by a LOT.

I agree it is useful (essential even) in River City night. But the quality should be much better.

Edited by Vila deVere, 18 December 2012 - 06:57 PM.

[Krivvan]

Vila deVere, on 18 December 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

I was using NVG's in the 70's and 80's too. They were better than our 31st century "night vision".... by a LOT.

I agree it is useful (essential even) in River City night. But the quality should be much better.

The point, however, is that the universe isn't about having better technology than modern times. All the weapons and equipment in the game are far behind current day tech, except for having mechs (which is a physical impossibility at the sizes and tonnage in the game).

[Jakob Knight]

One thing to note is that the Night mode in MWO is not the same thing as light amp. If it was the same as that, the first laser to fire at you would blind you for the entire game (blowing out your optics).

Instead, think of it as a computer generated image that gathers information from passive/active radar imaging, sonic bounce, laser imaging, and other non-visual sensors and compiles them all into something like a visual picture. This system also works regardless of the ambient light outside, allowing the same performance in a foggy night as in the absolute darkness of a cave.

That's my take on it, at any rate.

[Undead Bane]

Krivvan, on 18 December 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

The point, however, is that the universe isn't about having better technology than modern times. All the weapons and equipment in the game are far behind current day tech, except for having mechs (which is a physical impossibility at the sizes and tonnage in the game).

I would really arguewith you about physical impossibility, but I'm too lazy and you do not know the area you are talking about at all, as far as I can see. They are not impossible, they are (now) considered mostly too useless.

And OP, well, we also have some **** instead of proper mil-dot like reticle. How 'bout that? =)
You can look at it from 2 points:
1. Canon. Electronics are SO degraded in 31st. They pretty much can reproduce only what is left. So, in certain areas, like computers and electronics we are pretty much in 20th century and even beyond sometimes.
2. Gamewise. We do need ***** insrtuments to add competition. Because if everyone has good ones, there will be much less skill involved in playing => less competetive => more boring.

Edited by Undead Bane, 18 December 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[Vila deVere]

Jakob Knight, on 18 December 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

One thing to note is that the Night mode in MWO is not the same thing as light amp. If it was the same as that, the first laser to fire at you would blind you for the entire game (blowing out your optics).

Instead, think of it as a computer generated image that gathers information from passive/active radar imaging, sonic bounce, laser imaging, and other non-visual sensors and compiles them all into something like a visual picture. This system also works regardless of the ambient light outside, allowing the same performance in a foggy night as in the absolute darkness of a cave.

That's my take on it, at any rate.

Jakob Knight, on 18 December 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

One thing to note is that the Night mode in MWO is not the same thing as light amp. If it was the same as that, the first laser to fire at you would blind you for the entire game (blowing out your optics).

Instead, think of it as a computer generated image that gathers information from passive/active radar imaging, sonic bounce, laser imaging, and other non-visual sensors and compiles them all into something like a visual picture. This system also works regardless of the ambient light outside, allowing the same performance in a foggy night as in the absolute darkness of a cave.

That's my take on it, at any rate.

Nope, these days night vision use automatic gain compensators and autogating to prevent damaging the optics and adjusting the image gain. That's why soldiers can use them in firefights.

The green image tells me they very much going for an image intensifier-type effect. The contrast and resolution should be better than it is. That's all I'm saying.

[Krivvan]

Undead Bane, on 18 December 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

I would really arguewith you about physical impossibility, but I'm too lazy and you do not know the area you are talking about at all, as far as I can see. They are not impossible, they are (now) considered mostly too useless.

Well, it's a physical impossibility due to square-cube law. With some of the mechs in Batltetech, them walking on soft sand should involve them just plunging down into the earth. Some huge advance in materials science is also required.

[Tempered]

It is make believe technology in a make believe world. So why not make believe that it actually looks decent. Looks like garbage in my opinion.

[Jakob Knight]

Vila deVere, on 18 December 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Nope, these days night vision use automatic gain compensators and autogating to prevent damaging the optics and adjusting the image gain. That's why soldiers can use them in firefights.

The green image tells me they very much going for an image intensifier-type effect. The contrast and resolution should be better than it is. That's all I'm saying.

I've never heard of a compensator that can react fast enough to stop a high-powered laser (in the mega- to tetra-watt range) from burning out the optics that are sensitive enough to do the job, even if it's a near-miss. Muzzle-flash, tracers, and detonation flash are not as bright or as instantaneous as a laser dazzle, but I'll leave that for the people in the know.

Still, to each their own. Until the devs come out and detail it as either light amp or as a computer composite image from active/passive sensor data, it's up to each person to decide what it is to them. Regardless, this is the system we have to work with.

[Kousagi]

OP, You are slightly missing one detail. Range. The picture you posted of PVS-14 has nothing out of about 100-150 meters. Which is about the range PVS-14's start to lose detail very fast. Anything beyond them ranges start to look like giant blurs. So really, the current night vision we have in game is far beyond that of the PVS-14.

Now vech mounted Night vision, Not too sure about, as I was never a gunner on any vech. Though as far as I know they used thermal for any kinda long range firing. I think the range targets were 200m, 300m, 400m, 600m and 800m. They even had heaters on them to give them thermal signatures.

Edited by Kousagi, 18 December 2012 - 07:25 PM.