1017 replies to this topic

[Valaska]

Mordin Ashe, on 01 January 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

Tried Hawken and I must say, the game has more serious issues that MWO some two months ago. Still not playing much MWO either, with ECM it is ridiculously shallow. Good thing we have steam sales.

Terraria sucks =/. But yeah Planetside 2 and Steam Sales are riding me out through this ECM patch, of course my computer completely screwing the hell up kind of kept me away too lol.

[ICEFANG13]

I love how someone can think the opinion of how TAG with your own LRMs makes them amazing has any effect on the opinion that ECM has broken the game and made tactics shallow.

These are not facts, I agree with the OP, I have no desire whatsoever to even look at Hawken's website, but I do have a lot of desire, and to just tell the truth, I think of playing, and I decide I'd rather not. In my opinion, ECM has ruined the game, and I miss playing MWO when it was always fun.

Sure I get in a game, and I never bring an ECM mech unless my silly teammates want to 8 man (god that is terrible, that makes me want to quit even faster), but I have less fun, and when 4-8 ECM mechs (in 4 mans) rotfstomp our team/pugs (and shortly after us), I mean, why play?

I dunno, but personally, I feel very strongly that something that runs in the open should be LRMed to death, or softened, and LRMs should be used to gain ground in the same way, ECM huddle and run over is so puke. I also personally feel that LRMs are a little too powerful (without ECM), and while I want herp derp Atlas to explode when he derps across the map, I don't want to leave cover and have to run back because the LRMs that cloud out the sky kill me before you can say, LRMonline.

I really want ECM in the game, I want everything that adds a layer of depth and thought and complex tactics, ECM does not do that (you can say tactics, this is opinion, but ECM, in comparison to everything else in game, is insanely OP, I mean I love to ask this, but unlike EVERYTHING else, what are the disadvantages of ECM? Why not bring it). I miss MWO before ECM, it had more tactics in my opinion, and I hope PGI fixes it to be good, but not perfect, like everything else.

[Schlaung]

ICEFANG13, on 01 January 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

I love how someone can think the opinion of how TAG with your own LRMs makes them amazing has any effect on the opinion that ECM has broken the game and made tactics shallow.

It's relevant because the OP stated that ECM grants immunity to guided missiles. This is simply false.

Edited by Schlaung, 01 January 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

Uh no its not, other than an Atlas and your own TAG, ECM and speed do make you immune to guided missiles, lights with ECM on are immune to LRMs and SSRMs, and if you have someone that is running straight at you in a light, he deserves it.

Actually, you are true, if there is a light mech that is staying in that huge buffer zone of 180-200, then you can hit him.

[Schlaung]

ICEFANG13, on 01 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Uh no its not, other than an Atlas and your own TAG, ECM and speed do make you immune to guided missiles, lights with ECM on are immune to LRMs and SSRMs, and if you have someone that is running straight at you in a light, he deserves it.

Actually, you are true, if there is a light mech that is staying in that huge buffer zone of 180-200, then you can hit him.

You mean you might have to make a loadout specifically set up to counter mechs with ECM? Tragic.

[StalaggtIKE]

Schlaung, on 01 January 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

You mean you might have to make a loadout specifically set up to counter mechs with ECM? Tragic.

And you don't see the problem of building a loadout specifically to counter a 1.5 ton piece of equipment, only usable by 4 out of 44 mechs? Astonishing.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 01 January 2013 - 09:24 AM.

[Willie Sauerland]

ICEFANG13, on 01 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Uh no its not, other than an Atlas and your own TAG, ECM and speed do make you immune to guided missiles, lights with ECM on are immune to LRMs and SSRMs, and if you have someone that is running straight at you in a light, he deserves it.

Actually, you are true, if there is a light mech that is staying in that huge buffer zone of 180-200, then you can hit him.

Uh. False. Don't use SSRMs personally as they are easy mode and not working like they actually should. However, when I was running LRM boats, I was making well over 500 damage a game with ECM at full strength (before this recent nerf). Interestingly, you do not need a lock to fire LRMs effectively nor do you need TAG. I even did it with an A1 running LRMs (incapable of equiping a TAG).

The fact you cannot figure it out is not my issue. The fact so many are whining and complaining is laughable since it seems people are either unwilling or incapable of adapting. And no, adapting is good no matter how much the vocal few complain. If you can't adapt, then perhaps a strategic/tactical team-based FPS is not for you.

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 01 January 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Rumrunner2]

I really hate ECM like its implemented atm. ECM should do same things like in BT rulebook (countermeasure to Artemis, Narc, Beagle), but no add-ons and for sure no stealthfunction.

Even in random matches i saw very often full premade teams with 4 Atlas d-DC. They did not went in random to level this mechs, they were only there to push there statistics with easy kills. Poor souls....but its annoying.
I think some guys like ECM for exactly this effect, easy kill to push statistics.
And whats to point for having over 50 Mechs/chassis, if mostly the 4 ECM Mechs were used? Boring.

I really hope PGI will ECM set back to BT rules very soon, otherwise me and alot of other guys will stop playing after payed premium time ends.

[Schlaung]

StalaggtIKE, on 01 January 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

And you don't see the problem of building a loadout specifically to counter a 1.5 ton piece of equipment, only usable by 4 out of 44 mechs? Astonishing.

Countered with a 1 ton piece of equipment usable on any mech with an energy hardpoint? No, I don't see a problem there.

[ICEFANG13]

TAG does not counter ECM on any light mech, and it doesn't even do a good job of countering it on slower mechs. It uses up an energy hardpoint, and it doesn't even let you lock on right away, it still takes around 4 seconds to lock on, and then you have to lock missiles. Just because you can get kills on herp derps that wonder towards you, doesn't mean its working well.

500 damage is probably the point where I start to think, "this might be right", but then you said you can dumb fire LRMs, that is honestly pretty stupid to say.

I don't use SSRM except on light mechs, but its not easy mode, it has disadvantages, unlike ECM, would you kindly name some of ECMs disadvantages? Because I can name quite a few for SSRMs, and LRMs.

Also, ECM wasn't nerfed, where do people get that weird idea from? It doesn't randomly choose one to counter 9or counters multiples), and instead counters one? That's a buff. Derp, making counter ECM weaker was a nerf to ECM, and not a buff...

Edited by ICEFANG13, 01 January 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[Tacophagist]

ICEFANG13, on 01 January 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

TAG does not counter ECM on any light mech, and it doesn't even do a good job of countering it on slower mechs. It uses up an energy hardpoint, and it doesn't even let you lock on right away, it still takes around 4 seconds to lock on, and then you have to lock missiles. Just because you can get kills on herp derps that wonder towards you, doesn't mean its working well.

500 damage is probably the point where I start to think, "this might be right", but then you said you can dumb fire LRMs, that is honestly pretty stupid to say.

I don't use SSRM except on light mechs, but its not easy mode, it has disadvantages, unlike ECM, would you kindly name some of ECMs disadvantages? Because I can name quite a few for SSRMs, and LRMs.

Also, ECM wasn't nerfed, where do people get that weird idea from? It doesn't randomly choose one to counter 9or counters multiples), and instead counters one? That's a buff. Derp, making counter ECM weaker was a nerf to ECM, and not a buff...

What game are you playing? TAG does an amazing job countering ECM lights, particularly those dumb enough to run out in the open thinking they are safe. Have you considered, I dunno, aiming, leading and following your target?

You CAN dumbfire LRMs. To great effect, even, if you're good enough. I'm not, personally, but I've got a buddy that has no issues doing this in his A1.

Edited by Tacophagist, 01 January 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Willie Sauerland]

ICEFANG13, on 01 January 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

500 damage is probably the point where I start to think, "this might be right", but then you said you can dumb fire LRMs, that is honestly pretty stupid to say.

Like I said, the fact you can't figure it out is not my problem. However, LRMs are more than capable of being "dumb fired" accurately.

And since you can't figure it out, I would submit for consideration that your terminology should be changed to "intelligent fired".

[ICEFANG13]

I don't even use TAG or LRMs, because I know the best way to fight ECM is to not use LRMs or SSRMs, excellent design.

[StalaggtIKE]

Schlaung, on 01 January 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Countered with a 1 ton piece of equipment usable on any mech with an energy hardpoint? No, I don't see a problem there.

I hope you're just being facetious or ignorant. TAG requires the substitute of an offensive weapon, such as mlaser. It must stay on target the entire time and still has a 3-5 second delay before full lock can be acquired. Oh, TAG only affect on unit at a time. Where as ECM is passive, affecting multiple enemies, while providing missile shield for multiple allies. Your argument is invalid.

Willie Sauerland, on 01 January 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

ECM at full strength (before this recent nerf).

Reread the patch notes. It did not receive a nerf. It was fixed so that ECCM would only counter nearest enemy's ECM. This was buff to ECM.

Tacophagist, on 01 January 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

TAG does an amazing job countering ECM lights, particularly those dumb enough to run out in the open thinking they are safe.

You're simply playing against bads, if lights are getting TAGged and people are getting hit by dumb fire LRM on regular basis. I guess you're pug stomping with friends.

[Willie Sauerland]

StalaggtIKE, on 01 January 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Reread the patch notes. It did not receive a nerf. It was fixed so that ECCM would only counter nearest enemy's ECM. This was buff to ECM.

Reread the patch notes. It was nerfed in the sense it was no longer stackable. As such, it wasn't a buff at all.

[StalaggtIKE]

ICEFANG13, on 01 January 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

I don't even use TAG or LRMs, because I know the best way to fight ECM is to not use LRMs or SSRMs, excellent design.

Exactly. Just use a RVN-3L. It's foolish to drop a laser to carry TAG and LRM, unless you just like being a detriment to your team.

[ICEFANG13]

No way, apparently its working as intended.

Pro-ECM, what is a disadvantage to ECM? Why would I not want to bring it on my mech? I can tell you a reason for everything else.

[Schlaung]

StalaggtIKE, on 01 January 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

I hope you're just being facetious or ignorant. TAG requires the substitute of an offensive weapon, such as mlaser. It must stay on target the entire time and still has a 3-5 second delay before full lock can be acquired. Oh, TAG only affect on unit at a time. Where as ECM is passive, affecting multiple enemies, while providing missile shield for multiple allies. Your argument is invalid.


Reread the patch notes. It did not receive a nerf. It was fixed so that ECCM would only counter nearest enemy's ECM. This was buff to ECM.



You're simply playing against bads, if lights are getting TAGged and people are getting hit by dumb fire LRM on regular basis. I guess you're pug stomping with friends.

There's so much stupid condensed here that I'm not even going to bother, have a fantastic day, I'm gonna go soak my balls in some tofu and lemon juice.

[Willie Sauerland]

ICEFANG13, on 01 January 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

I don't even use TAG or LRMs, because I know the best way to fight ECM is to not use LRMs or SSRMs, excellent design.

I guess haters are gonna hate and whiners are gonna whine.

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 01 January 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[SPencil]

Get drunk for a few days and that one thread explodes. Still here Itwally? I thought you left for Hawken. Shame about the HBKs not having any XLs, but to be honest I'd have sold the engines anyways and dropped some 260's up in that b****. I'd only run XL engines in a HBK rocking LRMs, but I haven't done that since...

...ECM dropped.

See, I understand the arguments for and against ECM in it's current incarnation. Much earlier in the thread I said it was fine for now, and I still believe so. It's by no means balanced or perfect right now, and it's implementation will need to change in the next few months as more features drop.

The idea I'm trying to get across here is: ECM in it's current state—considering the current state of MW:O itself—is fine. However, that doesn't mean that ECM won't be forced to change as MW:O develops and evolves.

Because the game is still in development I'm more willing to let some of the less then subtle balance issues slide. Plus, it's important to recognize that the game will evolve as development progresses. It's safe to assume that the MW:O we play today will not be the same as the MW:O we play next month, or in 3 months, or in a year. The differences might be subtle, but I guarantee the balance will have been shifted.

We are in an awesome position that we can indirectly influence the game's development. Having said that, you'll be much more effective at doing so when you stop simply complaining about it.

With this out of the way, I'm gonna get smashed and pilot some big stompy robots and not give a single [REDACTED] about ECM.

Edited by SPencil, 01 January 2013 - 09:56 AM.