1017 replies to this topic

[TheUnderking]

ECM is blatantly overpowered. I bought two ecm Mechs myself. I never play my Dragon anymore. My Cicada 3m is far better. It's faster, does more damage and is invulnerable to missiles in addition to making everyone beside me invulnerable to LRM/SSRM. It even weighs the same as a single ton of ammo + AMS

[Ashnod]

PGI, ECM is fine, please don't nerf it because of the few whiners, fix net code and the other aiming issues in the game first and than lets are how everything plays out before needing it, thanks - specially with the up coming energy weapon heat nerf

[StalaggtIKE]

Ashnod, on 02 January 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

PGI, ECM is fine, please don't nerf it because of the few whiners, fix net code and the other aiming issues in the game first and than lets are how everything plays out before needing it, thanks - specially with the up coming energy weapon heat nerf

ECM cost the same (in tonnage and critical slots) as AMS + 1 ton ammo, yet do it's job 100% better plus other things. How is that balanced?

[TheUnderking]

I'd argue the ECM is more than 100% better than AMS. AMS seems to kill about 5 missiles/volley. ECM stops infinite missiles. Thats far more than 2x as good.

[Valaska]

Ashnod, on 02 January 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

PGI, ECM is fine, please don't nerf it because of the few whiners, fix net code and the other aiming issues in the game first and than lets are how everything plays out before needing it, thanks - specially with the up coming energy weapon heat nerf

Usually you would be right about "few" but this isn't a few, the majority of people think its pretty ****** as is... The reason they think this you ask? Because ECM as it is, is pretty ****** and imbalanced, something needs to be done to tone it the hell back. And like StalaggtIKE said, it renders AMS completely useless, at best it should be a module slot, and even then toned down quite a bit OR need to be repurchased each time it gets destroyed if you want to keep it as it is now.

[Abivard]

all 12 of you is not a majority, your math doesn't add up, and how long will this post last before your mod buddy yanks it?

[Willie Sauerland]

FTW:

My ideas on how to fix ECM. Again, ECM is not overpowered but it is incorrectly implemented. This will fix things or upset everybody.

http://mwomercs.com/...gestion-thread/

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 02 January 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

Abivard, on 02 January 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

all 12 of you is not a majority, your math doesn't add up, and how long will this post last before your mod buddy yanks it?

Actually, given some of the bad statistics I've seen in this thread, I think they could prove 12 people is a majority.

[Tolkien]

Willie Sauerland, on 02 January 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Actually, given some of the bad statistics I've seen in this thread, I think they could prove 12 people is a majority.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1598770

Here's a post asking how such an OP item made it into the game - it has 213 likes and was by a factor of 8x the most popular question asked.

[Abivard]

oh, got another 5 kills in my Lrm boat against ecm eqqiped team, your right ecm nerfed lrms, I should get all 8,

To me getting 2+ kills in a match means I am doing very good, funny how I do good in these builds the vocal minority claims can not be played.

Saw one of you guys in game, funny how you disconnected your raven ecm mech just before it was destroyed by missiles

K/D ratio is your god, not mine.,

[Willie Sauerland]

Tolkien, on 02 January 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1598770

Here's a post asking how such an OP item made it into the game - it has 213 likes and was by a factor of 8x the most popular question asked.

I am aware of your post and thought it should be answered as well because several of the points are so interestingly wrong. Perhaps, that is the reason why it was also ignored.

Abivard, on 02 January 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

oh, got another 5 kills in my Lrm boat against ecm eqqiped team, your right ecm nerfed lrms, I should get all 8,

To me getting 2+ kills in a match means I am doing very good, funny how I do good in these builds the vocal minority claims can not be played.

Saw one of you guys in game, funny how you disconnected your raven ecm mech just before it was destroyed by missiles

K/D ratio is your god, not mine.,

You just made me LOL.

[Pan Damonium]

I havent been playing very long. ECM has been in the game from the beginning for me, so it is the norm - not some abomination that changes everything about the game. So this is my take on it, and I'm not saying everyone needs to agree or they are bad...

*LRMs continue to be the weapon I do the most damage with, and I'm a newb...so clearly there are no problems there.
*SSRMs I am able to use with great effectiveness, and I'm a newb...again, no problem there.
*Plenty of the 'victories' I have behind me involved my team possessing no ECM, while the enemy DID have it...so it seems to me, player skill trumps ECM every single time.

Again, ECM has been there from the beginning for me. If they dumb it down, the game will get much easier. When the game gets easier, my play will get sloppier. Sure, ECM the way it is requires some thought on a pilot's part to work around...and so we are clear, thought is that weird stuff that happens up in your head, you cant just make it happen by hitting your alpha-strike key - it will require some effort.

I don't care if they remove it, make it weaker, or make it even more powerful. I really don't.

For what it's worth, I have no mechs that can use ECM. I have yet to use it myself.

Edited by Pan Damonium, 02 January 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[Stone Wall]

ECM is fine. I love that this isn't MissleWarrior Online anymore. But my Streakcat still wrecks people.

[Hekalite]

For those who feel that ECM is currently balanced, I'm curious what equipment you would consider running on an ECM capable mech instead of ECM? Is there anything that you could include in a mech design for 1.5 tons and 2 crits which would have a similar effect on your team's effectiveness? Hint: the answer is no. That is the very definition of unbalanced. I think what would be interesting to see is server stats on how many ECM capable mechs are fielded without ECM. I suspect the number is very small.

It's not a question of if you can counter it, or beat ECM heavy teams. That is irrelevant because superior skill and tactics will always be an effective counter to an unbalanced game mechanic.

I really don't care what ECM can and cannot do once they are done tweaking it. I just feel that if you do choose to put in on your mech, you should have to sacrifice a significant amount of weapons, armor, speed or some combination thereof proportional to the benefit you gain for having ECM.

[USMC Iceman]

Is ECM code for the sky is falling? I'm confused.

[Pan Damonium]

Hekalite, on 02 January 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

It's not a question of if you can counter it, or beat ECM heavy teams. That is irrelevant because superior skill and tactics will always be an effective counter to an unbalanced game mechanic.

...this is EXACTLY what it is a question of. When it is simply NOT difficult to work around, it ceases to be unbalanced. Especially because it is rare to find it lacking - both teams generally have 1 or more mechs with it equipped. They literally can cancel each other out. So there is no other equipment that can do the same thing? There is also no other equipment so easily countered by the same piece of gear.

Also: The LRM is similarly unique, and comes with more variation than the ECM. Every weapon type can say the same...more or less. That the ECM has unique properties does not make it unbalanced.

Edited by Pan Damonium, 02 January 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[LynxFury]

Pan Damonium, on 02 January 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

Also: The LRM is similarly unique, and comes with more variation than the ECM. Every weapon type can say the same...more or less. That the ECM has unique properties does not make it unbalanced.

A sad comparison considering all those other pieces of equipment cost huge tonnage and critical slots...the LRMs in particular.

[Codejack]

ECM is simply out of proportion, in two distinct ways:

It does too much: Decreasing detection range and increasing lock time I could buy, but not 200m detection range and definitely not preventing locks entirely. Interfering with IFF is way out of line. If BAP allowed lock on inside the bubble, that would be a reasonable compromise.

This leads to the second problem, which is that it further benefits premade teams (who, frankly, already have enough of an advantage) by allowing them to rely on weapons that they know they can deny to the enemy. This drives away casual players and people not otherwise familiar with the franchise.

Worse yet, it undermines faith in either the ability or willingness of PGI to properly balance the game, but if they're not going to, I want somebody else to step up and do so and I will save my money until that happens.

Lead, follow, or get the **** out of the way!

[Kousagi]

Thing is, the ECM itself is not all that powerful. Where people confuse things is, that the ECM supports/denys the powerful weapons. SSRM's and LRM's are OP in their own right. The ECM Allows the ECM holder and his team to use these weapon systems and deny them to their target.

Like if ECM stopped MG's and Flamers from doing anything, No one would care, but since it stops the two more powerful and easy to use weapons in the game, people are up in arms about it.

I'd Only support a ECM nerf, If Streaks had their damage dropped to 2 per missile, target the arms and legs as well not just the torso sections, lowered the rock/smoke effects and made it so each time you wanted to fire it had to lock, so you lock, fire, it loses lock, you relock and so on. LRM's would need their damage dropped to 1 per missile as well, to fall in line with all the other weapons.

[Pan Damonium]

I'm sorry, I am really not trying to pick on you, but...

Hekalite, on 02 January 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

For those who feel that ECM is currently balanced, I'm curious what equipment you would consider running on an ECM capable mech instead of ECM? Is there anything that you could include in a mech design for 1.5 tons and 2 crits which would have a similar effect on your team's effectiveness? Hint: the answer is no. That is the very definition of unbalanced. I think what would be interesting to see is server stats on how many ECM capable mechs are fielded without ECM. I suspect the number is very small.

When an individual does not need ECM on an ECM mech, said individual probably plays a Catapult! Or a Stalker! Or a Hunchback! That is what you replace your ECM with, another mech. A lot of players are still playing non-ECM mechs. The very definition of unbalanced? That would be when every player, or even half of all players, play ECM mechs. This doesn't happen because ECM gets redundant after you have a couple mechs with it. Frivolous argument.

Easily observed evidence that the majority of players don't feel ECM to be the end-all-be-all is that people, more often than not, will drop in non-ECM mechs. I have yet to be in a single match with more than 3 ECM equipped mechs. With human nature being what it is - we will try to take advantage of any opportunity we have to be more powerful than other players in a competitive setting - everyone, or most of us, would be in ECM mechs if it mattered as drastically as people imagine.

LynxFury, on 02 January 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

A sad comparison considering all those other pieces of equipment cost huge tonnage and critical slots...the LRMs in particular.

You're right. Not the best comparison.