1017 replies to this topic

[Lucian Arkright]

To preface this, overall I like what ECM has done, and when PUGing, ECM seems to have become much less of an issue then it was. Possibly due to all the Stalkers

I think my main issues with ECM is the 20M window, which is far too small to be useful. Making the detection range 300 or 400 metres provides a Window that can actually be used.

I also think that due to the abilities of Optical Recognition, that even if the Radar and other more general EM detection systems are being jammed, Targeting should be possible even within the ECM Bubble (but cannot transmit target lock to Lance Mates due to Scrambling of the Comms). I do think it should be able to scramble the Guidance systems of SSRMS (Dumb Fire Only).

Also, Don't see why BAP shouldn't increase the detection Range if not within the Bubble, it should be seeking to actively (as it's y'know, and Active Probe) sort the wheat from the chaff. Only within the Bubble does the Jamming provide enough noise to mask the detection signals, over-ridding the BAP. Outside of the Bubble, the BAP Should be able to cleanup the signal to provide a boost over the reduced detection range.

While I don't understand the physics of how a TAG Laser gets disrupted by ECM, I am willing to accept that is 'in LORE™', and NARC beacons (useless waste of tonnage) need to be looked at in their own right, so not touching them here.

Edited by Lucian Arkright, 31 December 2012 - 05:02 AM.

[Sky walker]

Nawiedzony, on 31 December 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

"i dont like nothing from above" - i quote my post from other topic in that case

Similar idea was implemented in MWLL - worked more then well at the time I plaid it and noone whined about ECM being "must have" for every team in amount of 3 at least

[Olibob]

I just want to add that I think ECM is very over-powered. Whenever I join a game, I look round, and if we have no ecm mechs, then I KNOW we'll lose. It makes LRMs very difficult to use.

[Elder Thorn]

i'll answer directly in the quote:

MaxllmuS, on 30 December 2012 - 06:21 PM, said:

I think all agree ECM OP right now. And what if not? In this tread we can make ECM much better.
I post here old ECM stats and add some thing i think make it realy good but not usless.
Bold font for changes.





When a Mech is hidden by a friendly ECM:

• Enemy Mechs will have to come within 1/2 the normal distance (400 m instead of 800 m, by default) for hidden Mechs to show up on their battlegrid and HUD.The Beagle Active Probe used in extending this range by 25% to 500m.

No, max 300m

• It takes twice as long to achieve a missile lock against a hidden Mech.
  
• Narc beacons will stick to hidden Mechs, but provide their normal bonuses only half time (10sec) in ECM’s range.

I don't think 10 sec will really help, i'd be ok with it, i'd even be ok with it lasting longer

• Artemis IV does not provide any bonuses against hidden Mechs.

When your Mech is disrupted by an enemy ECM:

• You will not know where your teammates are, and they won’t know where you are, unless you have direct line of sight to each other.
  
• You cannot share any targeting data with the rest of your team, and vice versa.
  
• Your Beagle Active Probe ceases to function.
  
• It takes triple time to lock target,and twice if target under TAG or NARC effect.

NO! No weapons lock for lock on weapons, thats why i would use GECM at all, dirty streakers shall learn to aim

• Your TAG laser work normal because its optic not electronic weapon system

I wouldn't mind TAG to work normal, i think it does anyway, but you won't relay targeting information so it doesn't really matter

• Your battlegrid and targeting information will flicker.

Counter mode stay same.




Also i want changes in NARC make it weight from 3t to 1.5t like simple SSRM (its just a launcher missle do all the trick) and ammo increase from 6 to 10.
Ammo increase: yes, weight reduction: i don't think so. NARC should be buffed in effectiveness instead

Edited by Elder Thorn, 31 December 2012 - 05:36 AM.

[Raven-kell]

Why not just map B.A.P. able to see ecm at 400 meters?

[Tolkien]

Olibob, on 31 December 2012 - 05:30 AM, said:

I just want to add that I think ECM is very over-powered. Whenever I join a game, I look round, and if we have no ecm mechs, then I KNOW we'll lose. It makes LRMs very difficult to use.

I was curious how much this impression was true, so I decided to keep a running tally of my games and see if the perception that ECM is having a strong effect on the battle was true. The sample size is still a bit too small to be certain of the results, and it also depends on me with the help of a friend counting how many ECMs are on each team over the match.

Our side always has 1 ECM since I piloted a trollmando 2D for the duration of the tests.

The hypothesis is that the team with more ECMs will tend to win more often.

Out of curiosity I also counted TAG systems on each team to get a gage of how smart of an idea taking LRMs into a PUG match is. This was done this last thursday so this is with the upgraded TAG having been out for several days:.

• Us: ECM 2, TAG 0, Them: ECM:3, TAG 1, Outcome: We Lost Matched Expectation: Yes
  
• Us: ECM 1, TAG 0, Them: ECM:3, TAG 0, Outcome: We Won Matched Expectation: No
  
• Us: ECM 1, TAG 0, Them: ECM:1, TAG 2, Outcome: We Won Matched Expectation: Inconclusive(1ECM each)
  
• Us: ECM 1, TAG 0, Them: ECM:0, TAG 0, Outcome: We Lost Matched Expectation: No
  
• Us: ECM 2, TAG 0, Them: ECM:0, TAG 0, Outcome: We Won Matched Expectation: Yes
  
• Us: ECM 1, TAG 0, Them: ECM:3, TAG 0, Outcome: We Lost Matched Expectation: Yes
  
• Us: ECM 2, TAG 0, Them: ECM:1, TAG 0, Outcome: We Won Matched Expectation: Yes
  
• Us: ECM 2, TAG 0, Them: ECM:0, TAG 0, Outcome: We Won Matched Expectation: Yes
  
• Us: ECM 1, TAG 0, Them: ECM:2, TAG 1, Outcome: We Lost Matched Expectation: Inconclusive(2ECM each)
  
• Us: ECM 2, TAG 0, Them: ECM:0, TAG 0, Outcome: We Won Matched Expectation: Yes
  
• Us: ECM 1, TAG 0, Them: ECM:2, TAG 0, Outcome: We Lost Matched Expectation: No
  
• Us: ECM 3, TAG 0, Them: ECM:3, TAG 0, Outcome: We Lost Matched Expectation: Inconclusive(3ECM each)
  
• Us: ECM 3, TAG 0, Them: ECM:1, TAG 0, Outcome: We Won Matched Expectation: Yes

Evaluation: 3 matches had equal numbers of ECM and are marked inconclusive, leaving 10 matches. Of these 3 matches went against the hypothesis while 7 were for it. This is a small sample set but using the methods for binary outcomes on page 10 of this document (dealing with binary outcomes in a finite population) http://classes.soe.u...nter03/h5m3.pdf I calculate the 1 sigma uncertainty at 1.45 matches.

This means that the outcomes could be wrong by up to 1.38 sigmas before the hypothesis would be wrong.

Assuming a normal distribution etc. this gives erf(1.38/sqrt(2))= 0.832.

I believe this means that even with this small sample set I can state that ECM is a match decider with 83.2% certainty.

I will keep track of more of my matches to tighten these bounds but so far I can state with (83.2%) confidence that the team with more ECMs will tend to win the match, all other factors being equal.

Also, some interesting notes on TAG: we had exactly zero that me or my friend noticed TAG on our team in those 13 games. On the enemy team there were exactly 3 matches with any tag systems deployed. In short, you're a fool to drop with guided missiles in a PUG game unless you are a streak/ECM boat or if you know for a fact you have TAG on a friend or yourself.

Edited by Tolkien, 31 December 2012 - 06:56 AM.

[Crazy Leroy]

The most powerful feature of ECM is not it's ability to disrupt missiles, though that is powerful. It's most powerful feature is it's sensor scrambling ability. The ability to not see or target enemy mechs under an ECM bubble until they are in what is effectively short range (or firing range for practically every weapon) has changed the tactics of the game irreversibly as long as ECM works this way. (Yes I know you can visually see them or use heat vision, but you can't hit 'R' to target them and get a callsign designator to tell your team, nor can you see where, or if they're damaged.) Even if it did NOTHING else except the sensor jamming in it's current state, it would still be "required" for competitive teams for this reason.

I am of the opinion that ECM, as long as it's radar jamming ability remains unchanged, should not affect missile lock at all, and both TAG and BAP should be more effective against it. And even if what I said were true, teams would STILL use ECM mechs in abundance, and it would STILL need to be nerfed because the sensor scrambling ability is too good. ECM should either counter sensors, or missiles, not both, and since there's already a system for countering missiles (AMS) ECM shouldn't do that.

ECM should be something that is a nuisance to fight against with a minor impact on a battle (kind of like BAP is now) it should not be an absolute requirement.

In tabletop ECM is mainly used to counter C3 (which isn't in this game) and Artemis, and artemis is not a make or break thing. It can also run in ECCM mode to counter enemy ECM which MWO got right. It really doesn't do anything else, and it shouldn't here either.

[StalaggtIKE]

I love how people that rely on ECM for missile shield tells people to adapt.



I never used a LRM/SSRM boat, never had problems with it (after PGI fixed the missile clipping issue). Plus my kdr has gone up since ECM patch. I just hate that the current implementation of ECM takes the mechwarrior out of MWO. I should be punished for running out in the open, not rewarded because I can out shoot you with my A/C10s, or base rush without you ever seeing me.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 31 December 2012 - 06:47 AM.

[AlexWildeagle]

Vechs, on 30 December 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

To be more constructive, let me list the things I like about ECM:

+ Counters LRM in most situations
+ Counters SSRM in most situations
+ Let's you sneak around and requires enemies to spot your actual mech, and not a red HUD element

Okay, so those things I like, and if that's all ECM did, I think it'd be pretty balanced. I'd still take it without hesitation on every mech... but... baby steps.

Now the things I really don't like about ECM:

- Disables minimap for players, causes a severe breakdown of orientation and teamwork
- Gives friendly mechs the same null signature / cloak

Okay so these two things really make ECM overpowered. It's not the missile lock countering that makes ECM too powerful.

It's how it completely disrupts... well, everything else.

I would suggest the following changes:

1) While inside an ECM bubble, you still see friendly player HUD elements, and still see their blue arrows on your minimap

2) An ECM mech has the cloak / null signature for himself, but does not give that to friendlies

3) An ECM mech has the missile lock counter for himself, and gives that aspect of ECM to nearby friendlies

4) A single ECM in counter mode can counter any amount of nearby enemy ECM. So you don't have to stack your entire team around the damn thing.

Would ECM still be amazing for 1.5 tons with these changes? Hell yes.

Would I still mindlessly put it on any mech I could? Yep.

Would it be as broken as it currently is? Nope!

Pretty much this.

As I said before, missiles need to be rebalanced to be in line with direct fire weapons.
To the person who said LRMs weren't bad before, I'd say you used them and were never on the recieving end of them. I sat through many a match just watching from cover as solid streams of missiles just went back and forth. If you dared to break cover you were usually dead before you could get to the next piece of cover you were running for.

As to ECM being over-powered. It is OP'd as compared to TT. But then missiles are also OP'd as compared to TT.
As to in game itself, no ECM is not overpowered. Maybe if more people carried it I might consider saying it was but I play more matches without ECM then I do with it.
As to ECM not taking strategy.... you are on crack. If you're lone-wolfing it, you are correct....that does not take strategy. But within the confines of team play it does take a lot of strategy.

As a heavy I usually don't have ECM available even when it's in group. The lights go flying by and the atlas moves to slow, sometimes I'll wait for the atlas to show up and be his support. Then I have it, but usually just don't have the patience or the atlas wanders off while i'm fighting

[StalaggtIKE]

AlexWildeagle, on 31 December 2012 - 07:00 AM, said:

To the person who said LRMs weren't bad before, I'd say you used them and were never on the recieving end of them.

Or maybe..., bare with me, they just adapted. You know like using cover, ams, or shooting back. I agree LRM took very little skill to use, however adding something that takes less skill isn't a fix. ECM is just a band-aid. Instead require LRM to need direct LOS for lock. The recent Artemis fix was a good move by PGI. Make ECM only an EM killer, not a stealth tool.

Quote

As to ECM not taking strategy....

Anything can be strategic if you are willing to put forth the effort. The inclusion of ECM did not miraculously create strategy within MWO. Dumbing down gaming mechanics however does kill strategic innovation. A tool that neutralize as many tools, with little downside does that. There is no reason to not always carry ECM other than the fact that you are unable to on every chassis.

Quote

Maybe if more people carried it I might consider saying it was but I play more matches without ECM then I do with it.

Would this mean you don't have much experience with it, thus lacking the ability to formulate an informed opinion? Besides if you're playing so many games without ECM, then you should be still experiencing this "frozen in terror from LRM" scenario you described above.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 31 December 2012 - 07:29 AM.

[Taiji]

LynxFury, on 30 December 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

I'm personally playing more Planetside 2 than anything else. Its combined arms, has just as much if not even more incentives for teamwork, better maps that run at 60fps etc. If not for my 50 year old reflexes having trouble keeping up with the young'ins I'd be having more fun. MWO, and mech driving is much more suitable for my age and appeals to my lifelong(well it seems that way) love of battle tech (not just mechs), but the ECM driven tactics and stripping out the long and mid game I loved so much has me side lined until the sensor/EW model gets rebalanced.

Pfff not true at all about the performance. PS2 has seriously awful framerate problems - when it's a busy area, regardless of system, everyone is getting hammered down to sub 30fps crapness. And it has a render distance issue that makes inf appear at around 50m if there are enough of them. And if you're in a tank when that happens then you will not get to see or hear the enemy or the ordinance, you just get hit over and over with nothing to do except charge or run. In my opinion PS2 is as much of a pain to play as MWO, since both games seriously needed fixes to sort out their problems (MWO needs consistent hit detection, and Planetside2 need to sort out their framerate issues and thereby stop reducing the render distance so ridiculously).

[steelblueskies]

hey cool effort there tolkien.

had considered similar lines and was stymied at the means to definitively ensure/deny the presence of tag/narc across BOTH teams instead of just the enemy.

because i believe it is a worthwhile pursuit, and at least gives a real and valid objective task, could you possibly shoot me a message if you can think of a way i might be able to help?

[Gremlich Johns]

SixStringSamurai, on 30 December 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.

Methinks only a nuke can emit that kind and range of power. Me-also-thinks MW:O/Canon ECM is total fantasy considering it's implemented capabilities and the "limitations" of Physics. ECM is why I now play not much. If ECM allows you to play the way you want to, then it works, if ECM prevents the majority from playing the way the game should be played, then it is fail. One ECM mech should not project a cloak over its teammates, they are not running it and are subject to its effects as is the ECM mech. If you are using it, you are just as radar "blind" as your opponents unless you are using a radar that operates outside of the affected frequencies.

electromagnetic spectrum

radar jamming and deception

radar frequencies: Low-frequency radar uses frequencies lower than 1 GHz, as opposed to the usual radar bands, which range from 2 GHz and up,and the maximum is 40 GHz.

Radio frequency (RF) is a rate of oscillation in the range of about 3 kHz to 300 GHz, which corresponds to the frequency of radio waves, and the alternating currents which carry radio signals. Radar is included in this, however, voice comms are from the Hz ELF range up to THF (3,000 GHz) The battlefield would use VHF to UHF, good for out to 50km for the former (30-300 MHz) and 30km (300 MHz - 3 GHz), provided there is no attentuation in the atmosphere. (NARCS work in this range)

visible:Electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength between 380 nm and 760 nm (400-790 terahertz) is detected by the human eye and perceived as visible light.

Laser: I know of no way to jam a laser. Absorbent material aside, if a laser hits you, it either reflects or bores through. Oh, a sensor could be tripped, if equipped, setting off countermeasures like chaff or flares. Too bad MW/BT had no such thing. AMS and LMS do not count, apparently they depend on radar to set off, which beggars the question, why does the ECM suite have no effect on that system?

Infrared: The infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum covers the range from roughly 300 GHz (1 mm) to 400 THz (750 nm).

[Eric Berg]

What I've seen lately is a group dropping with lots of ECM and a couple mechs with LRMs and totally wiping out the team that has no ECM or just one or two mechs equipped with it or both sides with lots of ECM and everybody running around shooting at the mechs that are moving across the map towards your/your teams location. Last mechs standing you ask? Lights with ecm, atlas DDC's and Stalkers with LRMs. Change the way you play you say, I did I bought the DDC stuck ecm on it and 3 streaks.

[StalaggtIKE]

Eric Berg, on 31 December 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

What I've seen lately is a group dropping with lots of ECM and a couple mechs with LRMs and totally wiping out the team that has no ECM or just one or two mechs equipped with it or both sides with lots of ECM and everybody running around shooting at the mechs that are moving across the map towards your/your teams location. Last mechs standing you ask? Lights with ecm, atlas DDC's and Stalkers with LRMs. Change the way you play you say, I did I bought the DDC stuck ecm on it and 3 streaks.

This is what I have been seeing. As I said before ECM is just a band-aid. It did nothing for the "problems" but added another layer.

In a pug game with one team with ECM and the other without, it is as if one side is allowed to play by a different set of rules.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 31 December 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[steelblueskies]

Taiji, on 31 December 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

Pfff not true at all about the performance. PS2 has seriously awful framerate problems - when it's a busy area, regardless of system, everyone is getting hammered down to sub 30fps crapness. And it has a render distance issue that makes inf appear at around 50m if there are enough of them. And if you're in a tank when that happens then you will not get to see or hear the enemy or the ordinance, you just get hit over and over with nothing to do except charge or run. In my opinion PS2 is as much of a pain to play as MWO, since both games seriously needed fixes to sort out their problems (MWO needs consistent hit detection, and Planetside2 need to sort out their framerate issues and thereby stop reducing the render distance so ridiculously).

as an aside, i have tried at behest of clan/guild mates, ps2. for my rig i was experiencing highly variable framerates usually in the low to useless range without extensive tweaking at reduced resolutions with mw:o. i have not experienced sub 30's at native 1920x1080 with the default medium settings with ps2. also an aside, but that being said, i do not find planetside 2 enjoyable.

performance is a variable thing.

Gremlich Johns, on 31 December 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

Methinks only a nuke can emit that kind and range of power. Me-also-thinks MW:O/Canon ECM is total fantasy considering it's implemented capabilities and the "limitations" of Physics. ECM is why I now play not much. If ECM allows you to play the way you want to, then it works, if ECM prevents the majority from playing the way the game should be played, then it is fail. One ECM mech should not project a cloak over its teammates, they are not running it and are subject to its effects as is the ECM mech. If you are using it, you are just as radar "blind" as your opponents unless you are using a radar that operates outside of the affected frequencies.

electromagnetic spectrum

radar jamming and deception

radar frequencies: Low-frequency radar uses frequencies lower than 1 GHz, as opposed to the usual radar bands, which range from 2 GHz and up,and the maximum is 40 GHz.

Radio frequency (RF) is a rate of oscillation in the range of about 3 kHz to 300 GHz, which corresponds to the frequency of radio waves, and the alternating currents which carry radio signals. Radar is included in this, however, voice comms are from the Hz ELF range up to THF (3,000 GHz) The battlefield would use VHF to UHF, good for out to 50km for the former (30-300 MHz) and 30km (300 MHz - 3 GHz), provided there is no attentuation in the atmosphere. (NARCS work in this range)

visible:Electromagnetic radiation with a wavelength between 380 nm and 760 nm (400-790 terahertz) is detected by the human eye and perceived as visible light.

Laser: I know of no way to jam a laser. Absorbent material aside, if a laser hits you, it either reflects or bores through. Oh, a sensor could be tripped, if equipped, setting off countermeasures like chaff or flares. Too bad MW/BT had no such thing. AMS and LMS do not count, apparently they depend on radar to set off, which beggars the question, why does the ECM suite have no effect on that system?

Infrared: The infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum covers the range from roughly 300 GHz (1 mm) to 400 THz (750 nm).

actually mate, tt does provide chaff systems.

for larger vessels like dropships there are screen launchers. check Classic Battletech TechManual (FPR35103p).
according to Classic Battletech Tactical Operations The Advanced Planetary Conquest Rules (CAT35003)
the lyran alliance will develop chaff pods usable like ams deploying flares and chaff and particulates that provide effects similar to an ecm, in 3066/3069

"R&dStart date:3066 (Lyran Alliance)
prototype design and production:3069 (Lyran Alliance)
Developed as a temporary “active defense” against guided missiles and
targeting systems, chaff pods release a mixture of metallic confetti and
particles in a cloud around the unit that confounds electronic sensors and
targeting gear. Though similar in effect to a dedicated anti-missile system
with additional ECM benefits, their one-shot nature and requisite manual-release controls can limit the pods’ effectiveness in battle."

so many people fail to realize how many problems and solutions are actually buried throughout a few hundred sourcebooks, much less condensed across just five. strategic operations, total warfare, master rules, tactical operations and the tech manual i indicated above.

hells there's even the blue shield, basically an anti ppc force field system for chrissake in the timelines future. if one can dream it up, it probably has an analogue somewhere in the timeline and books.

Edited by steelblueskies, 31 December 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Eric Berg, on 31 December 2012 - 07:52 AM, said:

I did I bought the DDC stuck ecm on it and 3 streaks.

I guess PGI's plan worked, it IS properly implemented....

[MaxllmuS]

HAWKEN drove me to drugs,prostitutes and strong drink ;-(
Better i comeback to MWO.
ECM much easier to fix than liver or cure veneral diseases (((

Edited by MaxllmuS, 31 December 2012 - 08:08 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Ashnod, on 30 December 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

Really.. You any tell friend or for because of ECM? I don't think I've ever had that issue.. Most of the time it's bloody obvious and once you get close where allies don't show on radar you can target them.. Oh and the guys shooting you are usually the baddies as well, the only people that deserve to complain at all about ECM are streak and LRM users, specially since Guardian ECM isn't supposed to affect those systems at all.

The man has a point.

Quote

Beagle Active Probe



Beagle Active Probe are excellent reconnaissance tools. Their main use is to reveal hidden units before they can initiate a surprise attack. They cannot detect infantry or mines, or penetrate ECM suites, however. All Recon 'Mechs should carry a Beagle Active Probe. It is also a good idea to mount a Beagle Probe on Combat and Assault 'Mechs in case they lead an advance into enemy territory.

C3 Computer

The C3 Computer allows a lance of 4 'Mechs to fight as one, using the range modifiers of the 'Mech closest to the target. C3 lances are deadly in almost any situation. The C3 slave system is light enough to be carried by any 'Mech with little modification. The master system, however, is quite heavy and should be placed in a larger Combat, Support, or Assault 'Mech. The variation possible within a C3 lance is unlimited, but there are a few general concepts that should be considered.

• Speed: The C3 works better with at least two fast 'Mechs that can close or retreat at will in the C3 lance.
  
• Weaponry: A mix of weaponry is best. Some 'Mechs need to be effective at close range, others need to be able to inflict damage from afar. Versatility is highly desirable.
  
• Armor: Because C3 equipment is so valuable, good armor is essential, especially for the command 'Mech; if it is destroyed, the whole C3 network is lost.

Guardian ECM Suite

The Guardian ECM Suite nullifies any Artimis IV, Beagle, NARC, or C3 system used within or passing through its 6 hex area of effect. It is an extremely valuable defensive system and should be carried on all Recon 'Mechs. It is also suitable for all other 'Mech types as it protects them from Artimis and NARC directed missiles and detection by Beagle Probes. It provides no protection, however, against Bloodhound or Clan Watchdog probes or Clan targeting computers.

Target Acquisition Gear

Target Acquisition Gear (TAG) allows a 'Mech to "mark" an enemy for a devastatingly accurate attack by friendly Arrow IV missile artillery. The TAG is lightweight and has good range. It is an excellent system for any 'Mech to carry because it allows a 'Mech to direct artillery fire where it is needed most. Something that is otherwise very difficult to do.

Angel ECM Suite

The Angel ECM Suite weighs as much as the Guardian but also counters Streak missiles, Bloodhound and Watchdog probes, and Clan targeting computers. If your group uses Level III rules, use the Angel ECM Suite in place of the Guardian on all of your designs.

Bloodhound Active Probe

The Bloodhound Active Probe has a longer range and greater detection capabilities than the Beagle. It can even defeat the Guardian ECM suite. The Bloodhound weighs much more than the Beagle, however, and may be too heavy to mount on some light 'Mechs. Therefore, the Bloodhound should only be used on 'Mechs designed with a strong emphasis on reconnaissance. Use the Beagle Probe on other 'Mechs that won't be doing as much recon duty.

Mech Lab - Patrick's Battletech Archive

Guradian ECM is NOT supposed to prevent Streaks from locking on.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 31 December 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Atheose]

SPencil, on 30 December 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

ECM did indeed change the game. For better or worse that's more a matter of opinion.

I use SRMs and lasers almost exclusively, and haven't really noticed that big of a difference. What I've noticed is that people tend to stick close and group up around ECM, MW:O is a game of teamwork, and ECM made not working as a team much deadlier. Of course when working as a team, regardless of ECM, will help bring you through battles.

ECM isn't the problem: it's the people who use it. I think improvements could be made but for now it's good.

And just an FYI, Hawken is much more of a "traditional" modern-shooter. I tried it, and it put me in mind of Call-of-Duty with robots. IMO, it's disappointing.

Can I have your hunchbacks? What engines do they got?

I never use LRMs or Streaks (I like SRMs and lasers), but ECM has made gameplay unenjoyable for me too. As soon as you engage enemies your map is blank, and all strategy/teamwork falls apart. It would be different if I had a lot of friends who play the game and we could communicate on comms easier, but I usually just PUG.

Oh well, hopefully it will get a big 'ol nerf soon.