92 replies to this topic

[SlXSlXSlX]

I like this game, so I'd like to see it thrive. PGI, kudos thus far. Issues however, must be addressed pronto.

1. Premade teams are driving away droves of would be customers. My suggestion, look at the world of tanks model. Successful integration of premade teams and randoms is all about ratios.

WOT team 15
Mech team 8

WOT platoon max size 3
Mech max size 4

% of team on premade in wot 20%
Mech % is 50%

20% is the appropriate team premade impact level which public players will accept. That means drop to 2 man teams max, or expand 8v8 to 20v20 to get that magical 20%.

Also note their MM system takes your performance stats, tier, and equipment quality into account. If a premade has 3 awesome players, MM will find 3 randoms who are equally awesome (yes they exist).

It works their, and should here. What do you have to lose. The current model is terrible, it couldn't be worse.

Alot of gamers want zero to do with teaming up in que, teamspeak, vent, etc. etc. Myself I may move to team effort once ive field tested everything into the ground I want to try.

Premmies win rates are off teh charts 80% and up. Saw a number of posts saying "we lost one all night." For that to occur someone had to lose all night. You think that guys coming back tomorrow? Your ratios are very very far off, and the stats prove it.

Sidenote: Big shadow mech warrior casts in depth and history, you will/are pulling in half gamers, rpg guys, 4 x'ers.... many non-pvp experienced gamers (uber noobs)

You have a small fringe group of mech die hards, middle age dice throwers with little to do other than fill your forums and heads with "everything is fine" dribble. Think of them as similiar to the Tea Party, willing to flush everything away for everyone in the interest of maintaining the status quo, their daily 80% + win rate when they team up with their dice throwing pals. They will argue to the death to keep as many exploits as they can, where they can, when they can.

2. LRMS- Equally a game killer. Cover is sparse and lacking, and missles seem to avoid it regardless. Anyone boo hooing about ecm has a missle boat in their garage they want to exploit because my god they are so freaking op.

I put 40 on an atlas today.. first time ever using dirty lrms.. and wow 400 dmg game 500 dmg game 600 dmg game, all without leaving the spawn for the most part.. If anyone made it to me, they were so hurt 4 smal lasers could one shot them. It was mind numbingly easy. I took 1300 missles, hardly even moved my mech let alone micro it, and it was cake. Thats the play style they have become accustomed to, and wish to continue perpetuating.

On the other hand I go pure ballistic/laser get out there and try taking pop shots, flanking, etc.. my effort exerted is 10x greater.. returns post game/ ie dmg... usually less than half as good. Recall I mentioned the gamer crowd as a mix of die hard gamers and your uber noobs, well some uber noobs just wont accept hiding from missles. They want to play/fight/FIGHT!!!!!! and if they cant in this game without having lrm rain erase them in 10-60 seconds, theyll move on to another game.

Now your hard core, they will say good go play hawken, our game is tactical. In reality their using the best mechs, grouped the most experienced players, use the op lrm system, and exploit a game enviroment that pits them against a largely unskilled group of casual gamers who are at best luke-warm to their new experience.

Your losing would be customers left and right, most will never even see your forums. They will just move on. You will never hear their voice, or opinion, but I guarantee you, these two points were in the front of their minds the last time they ever signed off.

Who are you catering to, the guys that have played this constantly for the past number of months that team up on and exploit any new player who picks this game up, or everyone else. Maybe you are just making the game for the counders, if so I sure hope they enjoy it after everyone else has left.

In the end your community could have been much larger than it is, than it will be, and the damage continues every day. Do not ruin your game to placate to a extreme fringe group.

3. Finally, drop the TT constraints. In WoT they took all kinds of real world stats and warped them for balance. Forget the TT numbers, whatever they are. Mech Warrior is your game now PGI, not 1980 battletech's. You have to break the TT rules to balance the game. Dor everyone one person that posts stay true blah blah, there are 4 casual playing patrons who would say "I want a balanced game, or im leaving. I care not for the rules of some board game, I never played."

So in sum:

If premmie vs pub, use a skill based MM with premmie influence at 20%...

Nerf LRMS or buff lasers and double buff ballistics. No one wants world of missle spam except the few vocal forum posters who play primarily op setups. Make all weapons equally effective and viable.

and throw the TT numbers out the window.

You can do this... Good luck!

[Taizan]

SlXSlXSlX, on 20 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

1. Premade teams are driving away droves of would be customers. My suggestion, look at the world of tanks model. Successful integration of premade teams and randoms is all about ratios.

20% is the appropriate team premade impact level which public players will accept. That means drop to 2 man teams max, or expand 8v8 to 20v20 to get that magical 20%.

The "group of 4" thing is probably based on the typical lance size in BT, normally a full group size would be 12, not 8, but the maps we currently are playing on barely are large enough for 8 players.

SlXSlXSlX, on 20 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

2. LRMS- Equally a game killer. Cover is sparse and lacking, and missles seem to avoid it regardless. Anyone boo hooing about ecm has a missle boat in their garage they want to exploit because my god they are so freaking op.

Lol .. cover is sparse? Please tell me on which map you think cover is sparse. LRMs (actually Artemis) got an indirect nerf just with the latest patch. Then there is ECM that needs active countering or TAG to even be able to get a lock. Also AMS umbrella ftw. set up 2-3 AMS wielding mechs together and LRMs are a laugh.

SlXSlXSlX, on 20 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

3. Finally, drop the TT constraints. In WoT they took all kinds of real world stats and warped them for balance. Forget the TT numbers, whatever they are. Mech Warrior is your game now PGI, not 1980 battletech's. You have to break the TT rules to balance the game. Dor everyone one person that posts stay true blah blah, there are 4 casual playing patrons who would say "I want a balanced game, or im leaving. I care not for the rules of some board game, I never played."

We don't know how much of this is influenced by the BT/MW license. They are breaking with TT canon often enough as is (See Guardian ECM & DHS).

[The Cheese]

The OP bears the number of the beast. Believe not his words, for they are false. Shun him, but do not fear him.

Edited by The Cheese, 20 December 2012 - 02:03 AM.

[Zylo]

SlXSlXSlX, on 20 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

I like this game, so I'd like to see it thrive. PGI, kudos thus far. Issues however, must be addressed pronto.

1. Premade teams are driving away droves of would be customers. My suggestion, look at the world of tanks model. Successful integration of premade teams and randoms is all about ratios.

WOT team 15
Mech team 8

WOT platoon max size 3
Mech max size 4

% of team on premade in wot 20%
Mech % is 50%

20% is the appropriate team premade impact level which public players will accept. That means drop to 2 man teams max, or expand 8v8 to 20v20 to get that magical 20%.

The problem isn't the ratio.

The problem is the matchmaker currently allowing 2x groups of 4 to drop at the same time and end up on the same team vs 8 random players.

In WoT terms that would be like allowing a tank company group (I think that's what the team of 15 was called, it's been a while) to drop against 15 random players.

Edited by Zylo, 20 December 2012 - 02:06 AM.

[One Medic Army]

People forgot how to counter LRMs without ECM since ECM has been introduced.
It's so amazingly easy:
Stay by cover (there's tons of cover everywhere except caustic). Move behind cover when LRMs are incoming.
Snipe the LRM boats.
Don't think you can stand out in the open just cause you're an atlas (even D-DCs with ECM get eaten since the TAG range buff).
Get close to the LRM boats and beat the **** out of them with light and fast medium mechs.
Use AMS and stay grouped.

And yes, I do play an LRM mech, only since Tuesday: 4x LRM15 Stalker. It's insane, and people just make it waaaaay too easy to TAG and Frag them.

[Omigir]

its amusing to see some one come in with a biased opinion and accuse those that he thinks directly appose his opinion of being biased.

Heat, damage, health, armor, Double heat sinks, Fero fibrous armor, every mech introduced and other items have been all changed to fit the need of the first person shooter. Do some research before you start accusing PGI of adhering to TT rules. They have tweaked just about everything.

As far as the groups go, this match making system is temporary. Again, do some research, read the devblogs starting at dev blog 0 and have a peek at what the game is intended to be heading toward. As said above, 8 man is not the intended group size in the long run. They want 12 (3 Lances)

oh, and before you start really going off about how the game right now only caters to the privileged few. Take a moment and look at how the privileged few often work. Coordinated, as a team. Sure, some drop as two teams of 4, but most drop as a team of 3 and 4 because for what ever reason, they are one man short of an 8 man. And they want to play together as a team. It happens all the time.

Again and again, the problem isn't premades being op, its pugs screwing themselves in the long run. I have seen a team of 4. Just 4, roll a team of 8 because the pugs shoot each other, dont focus fire. and wonder off on their own.

those kind of people wouldn't have liked mechwarrior in any of its iterations before (save for maybe MechAssault) and short of making this game exactly like every other shooter instead of a Simulator, those people will not stay anyway.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Gentlemen, you are just making my case. No no, dont address the whole post, just pick out the parts you feel you can easily counter.

[Joseph Mallan]

Six that would be because they have a limit to the amount of text allowed in a Post! I didn't see a single complaint in your post that hasn't been beaten to death, refuted raised again and beaten to death again. Thank you for venting though.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Only things I have seen so far are your assertions that.. yes you do play op lrm boats, u have no explaination for how i expent 1/10th the effort and score 2-3x better when lrm boating without even trying, nor the win % of these teams of droppers. You are a handful of fanboys, who like your exploitable game full of daily fresh meat. You will dine till the last morsel has been picked, and the communities is full of nothing but the founding vultures.

Ill address the few and sparse counter-points after work, or maybe during a break if I get lucky.

Have a wonderful day of scaring away new players.

[Apoc1138]

SlXSlXSlX, on 20 December 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

Only things I have seen so far are your assertions that.. yes you do play op lrm boats, u have no explaination for how i expent 1/10th the effort and score 2-3x better when lrm boating without even trying, nor the win % of these teams of droppers. You are a handful of fanboys, who like your exploitable game full of daily fresh meat. You will dine till the last morsel has been picked, and the communities is full of nothing but the founding vultures.

Ill address the few and sparse counter-points after work, or maybe during a break if I get lucky.

Have a wonderful day of scaring away new players.

because you aren't very good at the game?
I play an atlas and routinely get over 1000 damage, no LRM's involved... if you have to rely on LRM's to get 400-600 then I struggle to understand how, people in light mechs using only medium lasers get 400 damage per round... if you are only getting 400 in an atlas then I really struggle to know what you are doing (other than maybe blindly walking in to a big group of enemy and getting mown down without firing)

I can't remember the last time I received serious damage from LRM's either... learn to take cover

good news for you is that phase 3 matchmaking includes a scoring system that matches you against players of similar skill level, which may well improve your enjoyment of the game

I tend to play 8-mans so no I won't have been stomping you in the regular queue either (or if I have it's because I'm playing PUG while I wait for an 8man).

Edited by Apoc1138, 20 December 2012 - 07:24 AM.

[Taizan]

SlXSlXSlX, on 20 December 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

Only things I have seen so far are your assertions that.. yes you do play op lrm boats, u have no explaination for how i expent 1/10th the effort and score 2-3x better when lrm boating without even trying, nor the win % of these teams of droppers. You are a handful of fanboys, who like your exploitable game full of daily fresh meat. You will dine till the last morsel has been picked, and the communities is full of nothing but the founding vultures.

Ill address the few and sparse counter-points after work, or maybe during a break if I get lucky.

Have a wonderful day of scaring away new players.

No need to really, because the basis of every discussion is that both sides are willing to listen to the opponents arguments. In your case this does not seem to be given.

[Joseph Mallan]

SlXSlXSlX, on 20 December 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

Only things I have seen so far are your assertions that.. yes you do play op lrm boats, u have no explaination for how i expent 1/10th the effort and score 2-3x better when lrm boating without even trying, nor the win % of these teams of droppers. You are a handful of fanboys, who like your exploitable game full of daily fresh meat. You will dine till the last morsel has been picked, and the communities is full of nothing but the founding vultures.

Ill address the few and sparse counter-points after work, or maybe during a break if I get lucky.

Have a wonderful day of scaring away new players.

See you haven't dropped against me then sir, cause I don't have LRMs on my Mechs with exception of 2 LRM10s on one Stalker. My besr ride pairs ERPPC w/Gauss and SRMs. ANd I would have to see your earnings to know whether or not you are infact out scoring me or my allies.

As you are a new player you don't seem so scared to me

You sir... Need a nap!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 20 December 2012 - 07:49 AM.

[Omni Tek]

is it just me or does SIXSIXSIX reek of alt account?

[SlXSlXSlX]

Seems like alt? Have you seenmy stats, im sure they say... true blue new to teh mechfrachise. Now wot, theres a game where i have a multi account presence. That said lets see what teh fanboys have come up with....

Responses to the argument that 4 man teams having 80+ % win rates? I am bad at mechs and I need to copy what they are doing to win. So I need to: use an LRM boat, have an ecm mech or 3, find 3 buddies, and coordinate a time to drop together on a voice comm server.

My response: Too much effort. I don't want to. I want to run solo. I have made too many online firends as it is from prior games and tbh I dont need a single more. If I wanted to fight coordinated team versus new players, I would check that option in the que or something... but no, no choice available.

Many share that sentiment and while you hard cores may not care if they stay, PGI's more prudent investors should.

Can anyone make an argument that justifies 4 man teams, comprising 50% of a teams roster, consistently winning 80 to 90 to 100 % of tehir matches? I have yet to see one.

Lrms are cancer, and cover is lacking statement. Response was, that is only on caustic.

The snow map with water on one side and a cave on another, Ill use that example. My options are 4... 1. go water past that last rock and its open terrain till I am right up on the enemy, does not end well but I do it anyways. Option 2, same thing via mid, ther is some cover but, the sloping of the hills combined w an lrm in the water corner plus one on the enemy cap leave a small slice of true "safe space." So I'll end up pinned down. Option 3: Go cave. Flank em. Sounds real sweet but I have literally walked thru that cave to press tab as I exit to find, well my shole team is already dead. That option really erks me. Option 4, stay w the pack and dig in. Remember the whole, I am with pugs you are with coordinated exp'd pals part? We'll even if i turtle, my mates start solo suiciding or simply have terrible loadouts and you se them... blatantly failing. You know your screwed regardless, and your left with the conclusion, I might as well have just rushed water and gotten out of this god forsaken situation. My conclusion: until the mm is fixed to a point where I feel I can compete, I'll be rushing water there, getting credits for mechs, I hope to enjoy once the mm is replaced/upgraded.

"And yes, I do play an LRM mech, only since Tuesday: 4x LRM15 Stalker. It's insane, and people just make it waaaaay too easy to TAG and Frag them."

Thats because a large portion of those people are completely new to this game, and you repeatedly make their new mwo experience, well, terrible. So they quit. The next week its new noobs, again clueless, and you drive them away. the week after the same, etc. etc.

Finally the TT rules must be abandoned assertion.. I apologize as to my uber noobiness but I didnt even understand taht response Taiz. What I am saying here is, you want balanced mechs weapons etc... that much is clear. I think you can see that as it stands, trying to stick to those rules is really causing more problems than it's benefit justifies. Remeber this is a video game, not a digital remake of some board game the large majority of your ideal community wold like have never played. Myself included.

Stop catering to the overly vocal minority who are exploiting the very "problems" they are defending.

As to the first responder (Taiz), the guy that was apparently awake at 3 am ready to post in true fanboy fashion almost immediately after I posted.. do you live on these forums?!

Note: Sad thing is, prob 98% of the people who actually read this are the problem, will not be compelled by logic, and will flame me to high heaven for wanting to mess up their "easy ride." PGI read this POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have played "mechs" for 2 weeks now, and two days. I do like it. But, I am only putting up with these issues because I believe you will figure it out and remedy them. If not (PGI), please say so clearly, so I can start looking for a new title.

[w0rm]

SlXSlXSlX, on 20 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

So in sum:

If premmie vs pub, use a skill based MM with premmie influence at 20%...

Nerf LRMS or buff lasers and double buff ballistics. No one wants world of missle spam except the few vocal forum posters who play primarily op setups. Make all weapons equally effective and viable.

and throw the TT numbers out the window.

You can do this... Good luck!

No thanks. No one wants NoobWarrior Online.

[Broceratops]

they're adding ELO matchmaking, hopefully towards the end of january, which will sort of a lot of this pugstomping business

[SlXSlXSlX]

Noobwarrior online? My suggestions amount to a balance between the skill level of each team, and a balance between the three weapon types.

Funny thing is you are perpetuating that which you do not want. You say you don't want noob warrior online but........

Hardcore community has given up facing eachother in 8v8 and has resigned to 4 man drop on new players... (noobs)

New players coming in laerning get reamed repeatedly (noobs) then move to another title.

Next week new noobs join the community and the cycle repeats.

Your keeping it noob versus noob. Go play versus your own skill level and quit driving players away from this game. The unprecedented amount of influence this testing community has over the devs is... well, unprecedented.

You were the closed beta testers. If anyone is to blame beyond the devs for the broken state of the game, its you. But you don't offer constructive feedback on what needs fixed.. because your busy exploiting what needs fixed.

That said.. im off work and finsihed with dinner. See you on the field, for now.

[Relic1701]

Omni Tek, on 20 December 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

is it just me or does SIXSIXSIX reek of alt account?

Member since 09:08 today...first post 09:50 today....a possibility

[SlXSlXSlX]

Absolutely nothing constructive is coming form this.. you don't have valid arguments or points, you flame a little, but beyond that, you lack content in your arguments. Member since today? On this forum maybe, in this game as I asid a little over 2 weeks. Do you guys evern read entire posts or jsut the first sentence. Anyways its your gravy boat yor sinking founders. Have at it. You'd rather attempt to discredit an opposing view than actually counter argue, thats fine. If I had no valid argument I might take the same route.

I can't believe the stalwart resistance this beta testing sub group has to good balancing changes. Theres alot to change, lets be honest. In fact most of it. For starters PGI, with anything less than solid netcode, what were you thinking taking the game pseudo-live. Whoever made that called needs canned. Same goes for your internal testers. From a result oriented perspective, they are the worst balance testers EVER.

And you dice rollers.. my god ive known you 12 hours and already I can't stand you. I have yet to see an intelligent argument put forth from the lot of you.

Just got done banking 3x more than normal bc im using cheap *** lrm boat spam.. its both lucrative and yawn all at once. Making more money than I could busting my *** on the front line, without even walking more than 20 meters from the spawn.. Fun Fun Fun. (Sarcasm)

[Deadoon]

Omni Tek, on 20 December 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

is it just me or does SIXSIXSIX reek of alt account?

Relic1701, on 20 December 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

Member since 09:08 today...first post 09:50 today....a possibility

http://mwomercs.com/...2676-topgun505/
Member since october 31, founders program ended on the 14th.
No, forum join date is meaningless.