43 replies to this topic

[Farix]

I think the poll should be fairly strait forward. Just to see where the forum community stands on the issue of Base cap rewards. I find it odd that one objective of Assault Mode is heavily rewarded while the other objective receives nothing but contempt from other players who are on a killing spree or don't want to defend their base.

Edited by Farix, 20 December 2012 - 04:38 AM.

[Elder Thorn]

capture and capture assis should be the same, aswell as Kill and Assist should be the same or both should be based on amount of damage done or time put into capping

[Farix]

I agree that the Kill/Kill assist bonuses should be the same or releativly close. However, making the cap/cap assist the same isn't a good idea. Capture bonus is for the whole team while the assist bonus is to those players who participated in capturing the base.

[MustrumRidcully]

I think a fixed number is the wrong approach. Instead, make winning a bonus percentage to the total team rewards.

So if each team member made, say 80,000 C-Bills from a match, that'S a total of 640,000 C-Bills. Have each team member earn a 1 % bonus this value, so an extra 6,400. If, however, you won the match, increase this to a 2 % bonus. That's another 6,400 C-Bills.

This encourages to still cap, and it rewards the team if everyone played well. If an action of mine isn't rated by the system (like, say, soaking the damage for an ally after my main gun has been destroyed, so he can score more kills, assists and damage), I am still rewarded because part of his winnings are also mine, and if it carried us to victory, even more so.

The interesting aspect of this is - 1 % of nothing is still nothing. SO if you don't play and just cap rush or just suicide or go AFK, you gain nothing. You, and the entire team, must fight, and this will give the greatest bonus - but if you can fight and also take the base, you're doing even better.

The worst "Min/max" negative effect that could happen here is that everyone runs away fromt he last mech and tries to cap rush now. But that's not as terrible as having people do that from the start.


A variation of this could be a percentage bonus on the salvage only - winning always grants you salvage, but winning via capturing grants everyone more.

And just to clarify - I want this to be a team bonus - it shouldn't just go to one player, it should be shared across the team.

[Csitri]

I think it's fine the way it is. So do half the people voting.

[Zirand]

I like the direction they went. Rewards being performance based it removes the quick cap incentive. Now the victory reward is you get the salvage.

I had a game recently where we just did a tunnel rush to cap, we won, but only got 25k c-bills because we didn't encounter the opposing team. I rather like that it discourages that kind of play.

[Wuffel]

I am not sure if there should be a reward for capture win paid to the whole winning team.

What I would suggest, however, is the reintroduction of a reward for capture assists. The amount paid to each player should not be fixed. Imho, this encouraged running into cap zone, capping for a second and running back into the battle in order to farm xp and C-Bills by shooting someone instead of staying for the cap. To me, this undermins the whole concept of the Assault Mode.

I would suggest the following solution: The C-Bill seward for Cap Assist should be calculated by the actual time spent capping by the player (or by the relative contribution of the player to the capture). This way, people who are not able to farm money by slugging it out would benefit from actually accomplishing the intended objective.

[Farix]

Pandina, on 20 December 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

I think it's fine the way it is. So do half the people voting.

But why is it "fine". If something is listed as the objective, then there should be a reward of the objective is achieved. Why have the objective at all if there is no reward? If we don't get rewarded for capturing the base, then there shouldn't be any reward for killing the opposing team.

[Farix]

Zirand, on 20 December 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

I like the direction they went. Rewards being performance based it removes the quick cap incentive. Now the victory reward is you get the salvage.

I had a game recently where we just did a tunnel rush to cap, we won, but only got 25k c-bills because we didn't encounter the opposing team. I rather like that it discourages that kind of play.

Capping is a performance based result just as much as killing/damaging another mech. Why should it be the only action that doesn't get a reward? Might as well not reward spotting, killing, or damaging other mechs.

[Alfred VonGunn]

Your poll is odd.. If you vote no why would you vote for an amount.. But unless you pick and amount you can't vote at all

[ATao]

No.

Base cap is there only to serve as a tie breaker when for example some surviving light is running away and hiding. Cap base strategies should not be rewarded. They are viable enough anyways.

[WardenWolf]

Cannot vote as poll is missing "not applicable" options for questions 2 & 3. I think the lack of a cap bonus on Assault mode is fine - ideal, in fact. However, I do think there should be cap bonuses for the new Conquest mode. Had a game where one of our guys never fired a shot, but capped a couple of bases and re-capped one the enemy had taken... yet he ended up with the lowest rewards for the match.

[Stingz]

Farix, on 20 December 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

But why is it "fine". If something is listed as the objective, then there should be a reward of the objective is achieved. Why have the objective at all if there is no reward? If we don't get rewarded for capturing the base, then there shouldn't be any reward for killing the opposing team.

It's a secondary objective, a Plan B for light mechs and mostly wrecked teams.

[Farix]

Nope, capturing the enemy's base is the primary objective. That is why it is listed first in the victory conditions—just like obtaining a certain amount of recourse points is the primary objective of Conquest mode. So there should be a reward when it is achieved.

Edited by Farix, 21 December 2012 - 03:47 AM.

[Xenosphobatic]

If capturing the base wasn't a way to win, they should've called it deathmatch instead of assault.

[CrayTrashfire]

Xenosphobatic, on 23 December 2012 - 08:55 AM, said:

If capturing the base wasn't a way to win, they should've called it deathmatch instead of assault.

I agree but it made it more of an assault match than a turtle match. Assault game type has gotten infinitely better imo since taking out base cap

[Willie Sauerland]

Alexander Malthus, on 20 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

No.

Base cap is there only to serve as a tie breaker when for example some surviving light is running away and hiding. Cap base strategies should not be rewarded. They are viable enough anyways.

Sounds to me like "They are capping so they aren't having fun right!"...

I apologize for this sounding like "learn to play" but there are two winning conditions stated to win the game: Capture or kill the opposing team. If you set up to only do one of the conditions, then you should expect to lose. Capping isn't just a tie-breaker, it is a strategic/tactical device as well.

Since it is a condition for the win, it should be rewarded. For those wanting a Team Death Match, petition PGIGP for such a game mode...

[Vechs]

Capturing a base is there to end the round if someone is powered down and hiding in some corner somewhere.

The main goal of Assault is to assault the enemy mechs and destroy them.

Base cap = last resort if someone is hiding from you

I love assault now, I hated the stupid base-rush gameplay. Now we actually get to have a Battlemech fight.

Willie Sauerland, on 24 December 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

Sounds to me like "They are capping so they aren't having fun right!"...

I apologize for this sounding like "learn to play" but there are two winning conditions stated to win the game: Capture or kill the opposing team. If you set up to only do one of the conditions, then you should expect to lose. Capping isn't just a tie-breaker, it is a strategic/tactical device as well.

Since it is a condition for the win, it should be rewarded. For those wanting a Team Death Match, petition PGIGP for such a game mode...

But the point is that PGI intentionally made capping not give rewards. They've obviously learned to use CBill rewards to encourage the kind of gameplay they want to see, and what they are encouraging is mech battles, not cap rushing.

[Farix]

Vechs, on 24 December 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

Capturing a base is there to end the round if someone is powered down and hiding in some corner somewhere.

The main goal of Assault is to assault the enemy mechs and destroy them.

Base cap = last resort if someone is hiding from you

I love assault now, I hated the stupid base-rush gameplay. Now we actually get to have a Battlemech fight.

Nope. Assault is a form of capture the flag. The goal of the game is to capture the other team's base before they capture yours. When one team is completely wiped out, the capture defaults to the team that is left standing.

Vechs, on 24 December 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

But the point is that PGI intentionally made capping not give rewards. They've obviously learned to use CBill rewards to encourage the kind of gameplay they want to see, and what they are encouraging is mech battles, not cap rushing.

PGI did not state why they removed the capture rewards beyond that they overhauled the rewards to make it easier for new players to get started in their own mechs and to stifle AFK/Suicide farming which put one team at a tactical disadvantage at the start of the match. Base capping was not part of either problem.

Edited by Farix, 24 December 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

Vechs, on 24 December 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

But the point is that PGI intentionally made capping not give rewards. They've obviously learned to use CBill rewards to encourage the kind of gameplay they want to see, and what they are encouraging is mech battles, not cap rushing.

Not quite.

Quote

Too help balance out the economy with RNR removed, we have rebalanced the existing C-Bill reward system to reflect the average NET rewards. NET rewards would be the average CB earned by players after repairing and rearming their mechs in the current version of MWO.

In addition we have continued to refine the rewards system to increase active participation. Players will now earn more CB for engaging the enemy and contributing to the success of their team. Even in a losing situation, players can earn significant rewards. We have also removed or reduced passive rewards to a bare minimum.

-->SOURCE<--

In other words, they nerfed it to stop the full-on base rush which both teams did (often without even firing a shot). They did it to encourage more combat, NOT to stop the cap completely. And since the cap is a winning strategy, it should be rewarded (though certainly not like before and within reason).