45 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Pgi, I implore you to put a "weight class" restriction on 8mans that limit's a team's compisition to 2 lights, 2 mediums, 2 heavy's and 2 assaults.


This gives everyone a chance to pilot something they want to pilot, good units will have a mix of all weightclass pilots, and it doesn't hurt teams that do this anyway despite the enemy team having 5 atlai and 3 ravens or something.


Seriously since the 8man patch, I've refused to play 8man's because of the state of the game in the 8man que. You want to talk gaming the system, people are going to do it hardcore if there's no limitations in place.

Hell the old closed beta "match weightclasses against eachother" method worked fine... why did you just go "screw it, 8 mans can fight with whatever no holds barred!"

We don't need that, frankly there NEED to be hard limit's on what we can bring to the field, or we'll see stupid team compisition that breaks lore. 2-2-2-2 is lore friendly, AND give's units plenty of options.

[Sifright]

Jade Kitsune, on 20 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Pgi, I implore you to put a "weight class" restriction on 8mans that limit's a team's compisition to 2 lights, 2 mediums, 2 heavy's and 2 assaults.


This gives everyone a chance to pilot something they want to pilot, good units will have a mix of all weightclass pilots, and it doesn't hurt teams that do this anyway despite the enemy team having 5 atlai and 3 ravens or something.


Seriously since the 8man patch, I've refused to play 8man's because of the state of the game in the 8man que. You want to talk gaming the system, people are going to do it hardcore if there's no limitations in place.

Hell the old closed beta "match weightclasses against eachother" method worked fine... why did you just go "screw it, 8 mans can fight with whatever no holds barred!"

We don't need that, frankly there NEED to be hard limit's on what we can bring to the field, or we'll see stupid team compisition that breaks lore. 2-2-2-2 is lore friendly, AND give's units plenty of options.

better way to handle this.

550 tonne limit.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Sifright, on 20 December 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

better way to handle this.

550 tonne limit.

no, no tonnage limits, tonnage limits make it so that people can game the system by bringing a fully armored, under gunned Atlas.

No tonnage is out the window as it's a crappy balancing mechanic.

I prepose the 2-2-2-2 system for a reason, it's a lore friendly "mixed" lance... it allows players to field "any" of the mechs without a problem... and gives decent options all around.

Until some form of BV is implimented in Phase 3 in regards to ELO matchmaking and the like... this is the best we're going to get.

[FiveDigits]

Jade Kitsune, on 20 December 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

no, no tonnage limits, tonnage limits make it so that people can game the system by bringing a fully armored, under gunned Atlas. [...]

An Atlas is a 100 tom mech and should count as such even if it only weighs 80 odd tons.
Anyways, I'd be more afraid of 4 RVN-3L, 2 COM-2D, 2 JR7-D teams when a tonnage limit were added.

[Vassago Rain]

I don't want to play a team made up of ****** mechs, or tell my guys what they can and can't bring.
Not everybody even owns all classes, and the mediums are outright terrible right now.

A tonnage limit, sure. Limited classes, and to a silly 2 of all of them? No, thanks.

If you can't hack it in 8 manz, you need to get better at the actual game, instead of dreaming about roleplaying scenarios. It's not a complicated or difficult game.

[CaptainCrunch]

Sifright, on 20 December 2012 - 07:31 AM, said:

better way to handle this.

550 tonne limit.

+1 this is the better way to handle it.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Vassago Rain, on 20 December 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

I don't want to play a team made up of ****** mechs, or tell my guys what they can and can't bring.
Not everybody even owns all classes, and the mediums are outright terrible right now.

A tonnage limit, sure. Limited classes, and to a silly 2 of all of them? No, thanks.

If you can't hack it in 8 manz, you need to get better at the actual game, instead of dreaming about roleplaying scenarios. It's not a complicated or difficult game.

It's a blance issue Vass.

Can't see why you can't see that.

Ok you have guys that don't have all the weight classes, cool, what do they have? Compose your team around what your team has, there has to be atleast 2 players of every weightclass in Kong, I'm sure of it.

Leagues run tonnage limits sure, but I've seen how horribly wrong those can go...

And yes an atlas is a 100 ton mech [classified] however if I'm running it at 85, guess what, that mech counts as 85 tons. That's how tonnage limits work, it doesn't factor the "what the tonnage could be" it factors what the tonnage IS.

At the very least, return the old system that it matches you against a team running mechs of the same weight classes as what you're running... that was atleast fair.

[Erik Jast]

True or false, if ECM wasn't introduced, do you 8-man groups believe that 8v8 would be in a much better state than it is in now?

[Redshift2k5]

We don't need tonnage limit or weight class limit.

What we need is an aggregate score that places your team versus a similar team.

If your team runs 500 tons, then you fight a team 450-550 tons. If your team is 800 tons, you fight a team of 750-800 tons, etc.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 20 December 2012 - 07:58 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Redshift2k5, on 20 December 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

We don't need tonnage limit or weight class limit.

What we need is an aggregate score that places your team versus a similar team.

If your team runs 500 tons, then you fight a team 450-550 tons. If your team is 800 tons, you fight a team of 750-800 tons, etc.

Doesn't work, and won't work. The game doesn't even have enough players to support the current 8 manz. Seriously, we don't have enough for random matchmaking, that doesn't even care about the mechs or tonnage brought.

MWO is also supposed to be designed around this thing where all the mechs are viable, and compete with each other, because of things they can/can't do. Except mediums. No one knows what to ever do with mediums.

[QuantumButler]

Redshift2k5, on 20 December 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

We don't need tonnage limit or weight class limit.

What we need is an aggregate score that places your team versus a similar team.

If your team runs 500 tons, then you fight a team 450-550 tons. If your team is 800 tons, you fight a team of 750-800 tons, etc.

Yes, let's introduce a system that limits possible matchups even further, since it doesn't already sometimes take up to 5-10 mins to find a match in 8mans.

The playerbase isn't big enough to support this kind of thing, today for like 5 hours straight we've been playing the same 2 or 3 teams in 8mans over and over again.

[Throat Punch]

Use Battle Value like TT does.

[Khobai]

2-2-2-2 is stupid. It makes 8-mans incredibly boring to face the same mirror composition on the other team. Theres no need to to scout the enemy to find out their makeup or rethink your tactics based on the enemy composition.

Battle Value would be way better.

Edited by Khobai, 20 December 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[DeathofSelf]

Vassago Rain, on 20 December 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Doesn't work, and won't work. The game doesn't even have enough players to support the current 8 manz. Seriously, we don't have enough for random matchmaking, that doesn't even care about the mechs or tonnage brought.

MWO is also supposed to be designed around this thing where all the mechs are viable, and compete with each other, because of things they can/can't do. Except mediums. No one knows what to ever do with mediums.

I know what to do with mediums, and if I ever get to meet you on the battle field, I will show you

Edited by DeathofSelf, 20 December 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Vorl]

Jade Kitsune, on 20 December 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

And yes an atlas is a 100 ton mech [classified] however if I'm running it at 85, guess what, that mech counts as 85 tons. That's how tonnage limits work, it doesn't factor the "what the tonnage could be" it factors what the tonnage IS.

This is actually easy to fix. All Mechs are considered their max tonnage, no matter how you bring them in. An atlas is always 100 tons, even if you want to be silly and try to run one at 85 tons.

Khobai, on 20 December 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

2-2-2-2 is stupid. It makes 8-mans incredibly boring to face the same mirror composition on the other team. Theres no need to to scout the enemy to find out their makeup or rethink your tactics based on the enemy composition.

Battle Value would be way better.

The point of scouting is a lot more than just finding their make-up. It's finding where they are, and what their load outs are. Then targeting for support if you have any/harassing.

[WhiteCatInsurgency]

Max tonnage as has already been said. Problem solved.

A mech is assumed to be its max tonnage. Though I'd put the max allowed at 450 .. perhaps 475.

[Palmtree]

Tonnage limit would be better than a hard class limit, as it allows more flexibility in the metagame and team compositions. At this point I would rather have a player-made game system so that tournaments and team play is possible.

[RumRunner151]

I dunno, I only run 8-mans 2 nights a week and when we run its mostly 3-0-2-3 or 2-1-2-3. Sometimes we even run 2-2-2-2. The composition does not seem to affect our win rate, so I don't see why a change is needed.

[Nginear]

2-2-2-2 is not a good idea.

Restricts player choices (for 1), forces non-ideal team makeup (for 2), places another unnecessary pregame check to an already buggy launch cycle (for 3), and will ultimately result in Pre-mades recruiting for a weight class like Guilds did in WoW.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd like to not see the forums filled with "xxxx xxx xxxxx recruiting Mediums, must have SSRMs, PST"

IF a restriction is actually needed for the 8-man que, then I'd toss my vote for the 450-550 weight restriction (based on Chassis max weight (NOT drop weight)). Some quick math on my side would have me hoping for ~500 tons, though I freely admit that number would need some better intel before it is made a hard rule.

In short, original poster is raging. Can we lock this thread now?

[Ragnaphael]

Khobai, on 20 December 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

2-2-2-2 is stupid. It makes 8-mans incredibly boring to face the same mirror composition on the other team.

This 'mirror composition' effect is what I currently experience in the 8-mans where yesterday roughly 1 in every 3 games was simple 5 Atlasses with 3 Ravens... I don't even have to list the model types because everybody will know what types were being used.