82 replies to this topic

[Adridos]

HellJumper, on 22 May 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

oh so this means that the com star was building a secret force with very high tech Mechs??and they took down the clanners??

one more thing, why are the clanners potrayed as bad guys??

They weren't building it. They had that force (called ComGuard) since the fall of Star League, because they knew very well what would happen if one of the successor states (or houses) gained upper hand. That's why are those 4 wars called Succession Wars, as the houses wanted to seize control of Earth and form a new Star League that they'd rule. They kept it secret and then unleashed it on Clans when the time came.

And Clans are the bad guys because they fight Davions. Everyone fighting Davions is imediately portryed as the bad guy in both books and games.

[Spooky]

I always considered the Inner Sphere the (albeit distant) 'bad guys', since I was introduced to the BattleTech Universe through MechWarrior 2...

Edited by Spooky, 22 May 2012 - 01:51 AM.

[Gigaton]

Ramrod, on 21 May 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

No. The Federated Commonwealth was formed in 3055. I don't think you're being nitpicky enough.

On the other hand, AFFC (or Armed Forces of Federated Commonwealth) were already created in aftermath of War of 3039. It is currently in progress of reorganizing it's forces, so it's not fully integrated yet. I suspect that MWO will ignore this particular piece of lore.

Adridos, on 22 May 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

And Clans are the bad guys because they fight Davions. Everyone fighting Davions is imediately portryed as the bad guy in both books and games.

Yup! If you aren't Davion's ***** in BTU, you are evil.

Edited by Gigaton, 22 May 2012 - 03:25 AM.

[LeerayJenkins]

The Clans are not good or evil or bad guys or good guys, same is for the Inner Sphere. Its all about people and society, great Book Trilogies from M. Stackpole worth to read, pretty okayish written imho! Just reading facts from internet-webpages is not the same. You can do this for WH40k but not Battletech. (imho)

edit:



MfG,
Ray

Edited by RayWolf, 22 May 2012 - 03:42 AM.

[Adridos]

RayWolf, on 22 May 2012 - 03:37 AM, said:

The Clans are not good or evil or bad guys or good guys, same is for the Inner Sphere. Its all about people and society, great Book Trilogies from M. Stackpole worth to read, pretty okayish written imho!

You contradict yourself. You say everone has +/- and then you mention Stackpole which is the crowned leader of people doing exactly what we agreed on with Gigaton.

[Ursus_Spiritus]

The Clans are "human" in their origin. The Warrior Caste has been genetically engineered to be the "cream of the crop" from the DNA of previous Clan Warriors that prove themselves in combat and honorable actions.

There is far more detail to that, which can be found in reading about the Clans.

A general over view of the Clans way of life -

The Clans were founded off an idealology.

Kerensky as mentioned previously saw the squabbling of the Houses and other politics at play and made the choice to find those devoted to him and his cause and acquire as many ships and materials, personnal as he could, and when the fighting started ti engulph the InnerSphere. They left known/charted space and headed to the unknown (there are rumors they he had scouting parties that were charting space beyond the Innersphere.)

Kerensky's armadda experienced their own division on at least two occasions before finding the "Cluster worlds" which would become the home of the Clans.
Not to say that Kerensky and his fleet would not see their own internal strife but not nearly as bad as the IS saw over the same timeline.

Eventually the Eugenics program started and they cultivated what would become the class system. Warriors, bandit, Scientist and a few others.

With the exception if the Warrior Class, the other classes can go about life as we know it today, with "freebirth", everday normalities. Albeit under Warrior caste rule in which if one wants to pursue politics, and rank in the society that is usually restricted to the warrior caste.

Warriors can fail out of training and relagated to a lower caste. Warrior cadets are killed in training as well.
Though HIGHLY grown upon, Warrior caste does interact with the lesser classe and 'free born" kids have come from those relationships.

On the opposite end of the spectrum. A free birth can if allowed and proves worth join the warrior caste but it is a difficult and dangerous process.

As there are right wing and left wing politics and beliefs in our society there are the Warden and Crusaders of the Clans awith varying degrees.

What makes the Clans unique is that for the most part the Warrior caste is "test tube" babies and they have what are called Sibkos. Think of it as your "brothers and sisters" that you are vat born, raised, educated, fight with, train with and yes even sleep with (They are born sterile usually) though pregnancies and birthings do happen. In that regard the writers controlled the evolution of the Clan Warrior caste and it's science but also allow for the will of mother nature to play into the stories of characters.

There are many rights and codes that teh Warrior Class can invoke and how they live their daily lives. Ideally honor in all actions and thoughts but as we all know, being human, even if genetically altered we are prone to error, misjudgment and action based on emotion, rather then logic.

The Clans aim to weed out the weak and promote the strong, however the weak are needed for the strong to thrive.

Much like the Marine corp has approximately 200K compared to Army/Navy and Airforce, then the civilian pop. The Clan warrior caste actually makes up a small % of the Clan populace, however they weild much power in politics and government.

The vision of Kerensky was to leave the IS. Cultivate a more ideal sociey then return when the houses had whittled tehmselves down, and then take control of terra.

So in that regard as far as the IS is concerned they are the Enemy. As far as the Clans are concerned they are "coming home" to take over.

The difference within the Clans themselves is as I mentioned the Wardens and the Crusaders one feels teh Clans can incorporate with the IS and improve the way of life and actually return home, vs the other side wishes to take over the IS and force Clan way of life on the IS.

Due to the drastic difference in way of life between the Clans and IS there is a divide that when one steps back and looks and takes in teh whole picture, really we aren't that different. Yet as mankind has done for thousands of years. We are constantly fighting wtih ourselves and that is clearly shown in the conflicts with in the houses, and the IS vs the Clans because each side thinks it's way of life is more ideal. As is the case with our world today.

Okay so that turned into WAY more then I wanted to write........but I tried for a very general description of WHY and WHO the Clans are.

[Kreisel]

Honestly at this point, if your a player who knows nothing about the Clans, your almost doing yourself a favor by NOT finding out about them yet. Everything about the Clans is supposed to be a mystery and surprised when they arrived in the Inner sphere. If you start playing MWO knowing nothing or very little about them, your experience will be more true to what the IS pilots went through than it will be for the rest of us you pretty much already have a general idea of what happens in the story for the rest of our lifetime.

If they keep with the 1 for 1 pace I'll be 37 by the time the current Era ends and we go into the Fedcom Civil war (i.e setting of MW4 mercs ), I'd be 44 by the time the jihad hits, 59 by the time it finishes. O_o if by some insane means this game is still around then I might still be alive at 93 to see us go into the horror that is the Dark Age, hopefully I will instead be rolling in my grave.)

Edited by Kreisel, 22 May 2012 - 04:31 AM.

[nub nub]

This is the current state of the IS and periphery:


And if your interested in the nit-picky details:


Start the redaction timer...

[Kanil]

Kreisel, on 22 May 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

(if by some insane means this game is still around then I might still be alive at 93 to see us go into the horror that is the Dark Age, hopefully I will instead be rolling in my grave.)

That seems like a great slogan for MW:O and it's timescale. You'll literally die before MW:DA happens!

[Zakatak]

Ramien, on 22 May 2012 - 01:06 AM, said:

They were conceived in 3000, and showed up in the IS in 3005, according to sarna.

That was the Wolf's Dragoons, not Clan Wolf. The Dragoons were basically a "scout" for the clans, under the veil of a mercenary corp.

Clan Wolf first showed up in August, 3049 on The Rock. They destroyed a pirate base outside the Inner Sphere, and also the Kell Hounds sent to clean up the pirates. Phelan Kell was taken as bondsman.

Edited by Zakatak, 22 May 2012 - 05:28 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Uh it was Wolf's Dragoons the guys was asking about. Both Ramien & I answered.

[whiskey tango foxtrot]

Welcome back nub nub....

Like the post.

[Skylarr]

Ramrod, on 21 May 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

No. The Federated Commonwealth was formed in 3055. I don't think you're being nitpicky enough.

Federated Commonwealth

Formation

In 3020, Archon Katrina Steiner of the Lyran Commonwealth issued a "Peace Proposal" to all of the Great Houses of the Inner Sphere; only First Prince Hanse Davion of the Federated Suns responded, and the two states began a long-running dialogue. In 3020 the two Successor States signed the FedCom Accords, a treaty which formalized military, scientific and economic exchange between the two states. However, included in the document was a secret provision, promising the marriage of Prince Hanse and Archon-Designate Melissa Steiner, which would unite the two in a vast political entity, the Federated Commonwealth. This provision would become known to the other States in 3027 during the Silver Eagle Incident.

However, the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth did not share a common border, complicating their eventual union. At the behest of Prince Hanse, to rectify this problem the two realms began increasing their military readiness and began training together for an eventual campaign of conquest, launching Operation Galahad. On 20 August, 3028, at the marriage ceremony of First Prince Hanse and Archon-Designate Melissa, with all the leaders of the Great Houses in attendance, Hanse made his fateful announcement: "Wife, in honor of our marriage, in addition to this morsel... I give you the Capellan Confederation!"

With the launch of the Fourth Succession War, the combined forces of the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth began a massive campaign aimed largely at the Capellan Confederation and the Draconis Combine. The war would end two years later on 10 January 3030 with roughly a third of the Capellan Confederation conquered, along with some 53 Combine and 13 Free Worlds League planets. The conquered worlds would be incorporated into the Federated Commonwealth as the Sarna March and form a corridor between the two halves of the new super-state.

On 12 April 3030, Melissia gave birth to Victor Steiner-Davion, the future ruler of the Federated Commonwealth. While practically born in the aftermath of the Fourth Succession War, the Federated Commonwealth would only technically come into existence once Hanse and Melissa stepped down and allowed their son to assume his rightful position. Efforts were increased to further unify the two States politically and militarily in expectation of his ascension. Both the AFFS and LCAF increased work on combining their command structure, ranking system and battle doctrines into a single unified organization

Government

In truth, for most of its existence FedCom was a joint venture between Hanse Davion and Melissa Steiner-Davion. With their deaths, the head of the Federated Commonwealth would formally be conferred onto the Archon-Prince, though this position was only ever filled by Victor Steiner-Davion for a couple of years from 3055 to 3057. Below him in the hierarchy would be the First Prince and Archon of the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth, respectively, who would take over governing duties during his absence.
Military

Main article: Armed Forces of the Federated Commonwealth
The Armed Forces of the Federated Commonwealth was the combined military of the AFFS and LCAF. By early 3041 AFFC High Command formally accepted control of the two organizations, and by 3042 the last vestiges of both militaries was discarded. By 3050 the AFFC was the largest military organization in the Inner Sphere, with a BattleMech strength of 256 regiments and 1 battalion.

They never merged economically. They had open trade borders. Their two militarizes merged under one command structure in 3041.

The accession of Archon-Prince Victor Steiner Davion in 3055 formally brought the nation into being, though in practice it had existed since before the Clan Invasion. Katherine Steiner-Davion seceded the Lyran half of the nation in 3057, creating the Lyran Alliance, which would lead to the FedCom Civil War in 3062. Victor abdicated the throne in 3067 and his successor, Prince-Regent Yvonne Steiner-Davion, renamed the rump Commonwealth "Federated Suns".

Edited by Skylarr, 22 May 2012 - 07:09 AM.

[Skylarr]

Com Guards

The Com Guards, formerly referred to as the ComStar Guards and Militia, is the military arm of ComStar. Kept hidden by the supposedly politically neutral organization until after the Fourth Succession War, the Guards are a force on par with the militaries of the Successor States. Originally serving as garrison troops for ComStar's HPG compounds, they have shifted towards a role as defenders of the Inner Sphere, most famously their victory against the Clans in the Battle of Tukayyid. The Guards suffered heavy losses combating the Word of Blake during their fanatical bretherns Jihad and publicly disbanded after that conflict.

Origins and History

The Com Guards were founded in the wake of the collapse of the Star League by Jerome Blake, who created them as a source of order for the Inner Sphere should the Successor States attempt to attack Terra or any HPG stations across the Sphere. The Com Guards were kept hidden by Blake and his successors far from the prying eyes of the Successor State militaries, and, due to this, escaped much of the technological downgrades that said militaries suffered over the course of four Succession Wars. As of 3049, Wolfnet estimated the Com Guards' BattleMech strength alone to represent the equivalent of more than fifty Regiments.

*Removed Quote. Did not mean to offend. Just to show you were correct.

Edited by Skylarr, 22 May 2012 - 07:04 AM.

[Skylarr]

Drakewolff Kerensky, on 22 May 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

i have a ? what year did wolf dragoon come in to play

Wolf's Dragoons

They were initially of Clan origins, but have since integrated both Clan and Inner Sphere traditions and personnel and established themselves as a power in the Inner Sphere.

History

Inception

Following a suggestion by Khan Nadia Winson of Clan Ghost Bear in the year 3000, Clan politicking created a unit that was to be sent back to the Inner Sphere on a long-term mission to reconnoiter it, posing as a mercenary unit, to prepare for the planned conquest by the Clans. The mission was placed under the command of the freeborn brothers Jaime Wolf and Joshua Wolf, who named the unit Wolf's Dragoons.
The unit’s personnel was largely recruited from freeborn volunteers, mostly from Clan Wolf, and only a relatively few trueborn Clan warriors. Clan Wolf also provided special training for the fledgling unit to mask their origins.

They were equipped with what the Clans erroneously believed to be an average lineup of outdated BattleMechs, supposed to make them appear wholly inconspicuous: Five regiments of ’Mechs, including designs that were either essentially extinct in the Inner Sphere (such as the Flea, Falcon, and Hoplite) or had never before been seen there (such as the Imp and the Annihilator), complemented with likewise extraordinary support units, Dropships, and Jumpships. The Dragoons also had Hephaestus Station, a (mobile) space station with a BattleMech assembly line for the Dragoons' exclusive ARC-2W subvariant of the Archer.

Before entering the Inner Sphere proper, the Dragoons created a supply cache in an unknown location where they left behind some of their more advanced equipment, including six WarShips.

Noteworthy sub-units of Wolf's Dragoons include their elite Black Widow Company, their powerful Zeta Battalion of assault 'Mechs, and the special forces of the Seventh Kommando.

En-route to the Inner Sphere, Jaime Wolf decided to create a secondary mission of finding and examining lost Star League caches. This would eventually lead to the formation of the ostensibly independent mercenary group Snord's Irregulars.

When the Dragoons first turned up in the Inner Sphere on April 11, 3005, with their heavily escorted convoy of spaceships carrying no less than five regiments of pristine BattleMechs, their initial appearance caused a panic for the Federated Suns planet of Delos IV with which they made first contact.

Although their material wealth was generally attributed to the chance find of a lost Star League cache, this could not explain their unusually high level of professionalism and training, nor their sometimes peculiar tactics.

Recon Mission

For their long-term reconnaissance mission, Wolf’s Dragoons chose to work for each of the five large Successor States in turn to study them. Although their equipment clearly marked them as special, it also made them a force to be reckoned with and they had little trouble in finding employers.

Edited by Skylarr, 22 May 2012 - 06:21 AM.

[Adridos]

Nub nub, when are you going to implement "del" command to delete Paul's profile?

And why did you qute me Skylarr?

[Gigaton]

Adridos, on 22 May 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

And why did you qute me Skylarr?

Spite.

[PANZERBUNNY]

HellJumper, on 22 May 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

oh so this means that the com star was building a secret force with very high tech Mechs??and they took down the clanners??

one more thing, why are the clanners potrayed as bad guys??

Clanners are protrayed as antagonists due to them invading the IS and taking a huge chunk out of the pie.

At first it wasn't clear who they were and where they came from, but it was eventually discovered that Kerensky's children had returned with a vengeance to bring peace to the IS through domination and honour.(Which is suspended on a whim in some occassions.)

The Clans, divided between Wardens and Crusader doctrines fought for the priviledge to either invade the IS or postpone it. The Wardens wanted to postpone it and give the IS more time to save humanity and change their ways, but the more radical clan elements saw that the time was now.

The Dragoons were sort of a scouting element that hid within the Merc ranks and it wasn't even known for a long while that they were clanners, who eventually took root in their new home.

^^^^
From what I remember in the books I have.

Eventually the IS fought a trial on Tukayyid I believe to halt the clan invasion, defeating jade Falcon etc.

Then Victor Steiner, I believe formed a coalition some time after or before the clans were defeated, bringing together many units of the great houses to take the fight to the clans. They annihilated clan Smoke Jaguar. Surviving elements were absorbed by other clans who took the opporunity to increase their holdings.

Some very indepth awesome lore in BTECH for sure.

The gaming books make great reading material as 80% of the book releasse are fluff when it comes to HIstoricals, Jihad Hotspots, Updates etc.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 22 May 2012 - 06:41 AM.

[Threat Doc]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'm still going to answer.

HellJumper, on 21 May 2012 - 11:08 PM, said:

Second a question...where did the clanners came from???

The Clans' invasion corridor was from 'north' on just about every map ever produced in the appropriate time-frame for BattleTech. Their center of invasion was on the 'western' side of the Free Rasalhague Republic at the top of the map.

Ramrod, on 21 May 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

No. The Federated Commonwealth was formed in 3055. I don't think you're being nitpicky enough.

3056, officially, according to Shattered Sphere, and broke up two years later after Victor returned from Operation Serpent, to kill the Smoke Jaguars through a Trial of Annihilation, and Katherine (whom I refer to as the Second Usurper) took the throne from her younger sister, Yvonne, who was acting Regent at that time.

Ramien, on 22 May 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

The Clans had better tech because they didn't spend all their free time blowing their tech base to smithereens, by the way.

This is also incorrect. There was plenty of combat going on, within the first 150 years after the first Exodus. If you do the math, realistically, the pre-cursor to the Clans many of you know and love would still be cleaning up the rubble and attempting to get the next generation of scientists up to speed. They should not have anywhere close to the amount of war materials they have in the stories, and shouldn't touch the Inner Sphere until about the time Dark Age starts.

Drakewolff Kerensky, on 22 May 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

i have a ? what year did wolf dragoon come in to play

3006, they arrived at Delos IV, from nowhere.

Gigaton, on 22 May 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

On the other hand, AFFC (or Armed Forces of Federated Commonwealth) were already created in aftermath of War of 3039.

This was not made truly official until 3048, eight years before the Federated Commonwealth came into being.

Quote

It is currently in progress of reorganizing it's forces, so it's not fully integrated yet. I suspect that MWO will ignore this particular piece of lore.

I don't think it will be a matter of ignoring the lore, so much as it's minutiae, unnecessary, and it won't have an effect on the game.

Quote

Yup! If you aren't Davion's ***** in BTU, you are evil.

I'm a mercenary with Davion roots; does this mean I'm evil, as well? Or, were you just trying to be smart?

[SquareSphere]

To me the GREAT FAILING of the Davion's was letting the St. Ives Compact be taken by Sun Tzu. For all their goodie goodie talk they couldn't even keep their promises in their own back yard.

They got HANDLED polictically by both Sun Tzu and Katrina Stiener.