139 replies to this topic

[Jonathan Paine]

While people debate whether the Stalker or the Atlas is the tougher assault, few argue that an Awesome is as tough as either of them (given pilots of EQUAL skill).

Why not reclassify the Awesome as a Heavy? Next time you drop into a match and see three Awesomes on your side, you could hope that they are matched up by lets say.... Dragons.

Thoughts?

[One Medic Army]

If you're going to say that then Dragons should be in the Medium queue.
They have the worst hardpoints (flame aside) of any heavy mechs, are 60tons, and faster than the current 50tonners.

[Wraith05]

Because weight class is based on tonnage, not viabilty. And the awesome is a great mech for its intended role: Fire support.

Assault mechs do not mean run headfirst into the enemy. Assault mechs also have second line mechs like the awesome which were never meant to take a full brute force attack like an atlas can.

Edited by Wraith05, 02 February 2013 - 11:31 PM.

[Volthorne]

Wraith05, on 02 February 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Because weight class is based on tonnage, not viabilty. And the awesome is a great mech for its intended role: Fire support.

Assault mechs do not mean run headfirst into the enemy. Assault mechs also have second line mechs like the awesome which were never meant to take a full brute force attack like an atlas can.

Quote for f***ing truth. Tired of people complaining that "My Awesome is too slow!" or "This Awesome is ****** because it can't survive as long as an Atlas!".

Quit using it for stupid **** and you'll see a performance increase of tenfold.

Edited by Volthorne, 02 February 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[Dikaiosyne26]

Honestly, I've suggested that Awesomes sometimes drop against Heavies, Dragons sometimes against Mediums, and Cicadas sometimes against Lights.

MWO has a Wrestling Problem, in which it's so much better to be at the top of a weight class, than at the bottom of the next one.

[Kobold]

Wraith05, on 02 February 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

second line mechs like the awesome which were never meant to take a full brute force attack

No.

Quote

Technicron Manufacturing began production of the Awesome in 2665 to replace the STR-2C Striker. What they produced not only replaced the aging Striker, it became one of the more feared BattleMechs of all time. The Awesome is built around its impressive all energy based arsenal and heavy armor making it a highly independent and powerful assault 'Mech. Rugged and reliable, the Awesome is traditionally used in a vanguard role when penetrating enemy defenses.

The Awesome was not a second line mech in lore or TT. It is however punished in MWO because it is wide and easily target-able. Further, this is combined with the fact that long range weapons take a hit in a system where there is no random rolling to determine whether you hit, and ROF/heat system that favors smaller, faster firing weapons.

[Suprentus]

Because Mechs that weigh 80-100 tons are classified as Assault Mechs.

Edited by Suprentus, 03 February 2013 - 01:19 AM.

[Kotsuno]

Kobold, on 03 February 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

It is however punished in MWO because it is wide and easily target-able. Further, this is combined with the fact that long range weapons take a hit in a system where there is no random rolling to determine whether you hit, and ROF/heat system that favors smaller, faster firing weapons.

Can't we say then that in MWO it's role has evolved beyond TT into a second line / heavy skirmisher? In my own experience piloting them and from my encounters against them on the field, the worst Awesomes are those which try to emulate either hunchbacks or atlas/stalkers in terms of loadout and play style (unsuprisingly many 'Awesomes are not awesome!' threads cite the failure of these emulations). I find success in an Awesome is akin to a synthesis of play style that is taken from both catapults and dragons: skirmishing / assisting / constant movement and awareness of positioning / awareness of how to shoot what you are shooting at.

I for one don't think its a bad chasis and after figuring out how to play it, it has never felt like an underpowered assault to me.

[Livebait]

I run both Dragons & AWS. The Dragon has a much greater survivability, runs faster but packs less punch. AWS has less survivability, runs slower but packs a great punch. You need to adjust to max damage during a fight. If you do you will get mega damage points in an AWS compared to a Dragon.

[Seijin Dinger]

Wraith05, on 02 February 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Because weight class is based on tonnage, not viabilty. And the awesome is a great mech for its intended role: Fire support.

Assault mechs do not mean run headfirst into the enemy. Assault mechs also have second line mechs like the awesome which were never meant to take a full brute force attack like an atlas can.

well said

[Profiteer]

Wraith05, on 02 February 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Because weight class is based on tonnage, not viabilty. And the awesome is a great mech for its intended role: Fire support.

Assault mechs do not mean run headfirst into the enemy. Assault mechs also have second line mechs like the awesome which were never meant to take a full brute force attack like an atlas can.

Most games quickly devolve into close range brawls; so while the awesome can snipe for a while, it's soon going to come face to face with the enemy and that big soft belly is going to get opened up.

Besides, I would argue the stalker is a better sniper anyway - more tonnage, 10 hard-points, top mounted weapons for hull down, and better armor.

Awesomes are for flavor - nothing else.

[One Medic Army]

Profiteer, on 03 February 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

Most games quickly devolve into close range brawls; so while the awesome can snipe for a while, it's soon going to come face to face with the enemy and that big soft belly is going to get opened up.

Besides, I would argue the stalker is a better sniper anyway - more tonnage, 10 hard-points, top mounted weapons for hull down, and better armor.

Awesomes are for flavor - nothing else.

Don't forget the Stalker has a better front-on profile for sniper duels.

[Nahuris]

Dikaiosyne26, on 03 February 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

Honestly, I've suggested that Awesomes sometimes drop against Heavies, Dragons sometimes against Mediums, and Cicadas sometimes against Lights.

MWO has a Wrestling Problem, in which it's so much better to be at the top of a weight class, than at the bottom of the next one.

That's always been a problem with Battletech as a whole --- the 55 ton weight is much better than the 60 ton weight class......

That being said, I am actually liking my Dragon....

Nahuris

[Gammanoob]

Gammadin, MC, commander of the Zulu Lance, also dope on the mic, does extremely well in a Trial one.

Certainly brawling with Atlai or Stalkers point blank range is a bad idea, but the Awesome is not that bad.

Without a doubt it should stay an "Assualt mech" though potentially it would work better if a BV or Tonnage system was added.

It's one of those mechs that suffers from the matchmaker being class based as opposed to Tonnage or BV. Like the Commando, it's a good mech for it's tonnage, but since it is dropped with other Light mechs who have no reason to go lighter it suffers.

Edited by Gammanoob, 03 February 2013 - 02:18 AM.

[Tahribator]

I spent most of my day yesterday trying to find an acceptable build for my Awesome 8Q. I love trying to get underdogs to work but Awesome is such a trainwreck I gave up eventually. I tried every combination from standart LL/ML builds to cheesy "one shot wonder" 6 PPCs to all small pulse lazers.

I don't think the problem is its armor. If you play a bit conservative and use your arms for shielding, you can manage.

The problem with Awesomes is energy weapons and heat. Larger energy weapons in this game cost so much heat that you can't keep fighting with them properly. In a few alphas with 3 LL's even with 21 DHS, you're going to overheat over and over again, while you get pounded by AC's with reliable DPS and SRM6's with their instakill damages. PPC/ERPPC's do laughable damage for their heat cost and only viable in "one shot wonders" like Stalkerboats. Larger energy weapons just don't compare at the moment to ballistics/missile weapons.

What baffles me in Awesome is it's a mech that needs the DHS most, yet can't mount enough of them with decent weapons because of slot limitation. So you end up with up to 10 tons free even with the biggest engine in some builds. How is that fair an 80 ton Awesome having the same number of critical slots as a Raven?

Another thing is the design of this mech. It's clearly designed to be a "lighter" Atlas, to lead other mechs to fight. To aim flawlessly in close range with its articulated arms and high torso traverse speed. Yet, in MWO it's imprisoned in a "support" role which it's design is not fit for. The weapon points are all mounted at waist level which makes it a terrible sniper because you literally have to show your whole body to get a decent shot. Which Stalkers and Catapults with their high mounted weapons do much much better. It's screaming to be a "breakthrough mech" yet it's a mess all over the place.

To make Awesomes viable, I think these measures should be implemented:

• Give Awesomes more DHS slots, just like engines having extra DHS slots. It's a big mech, so all that surface area should be good for something. Give 2 extra heatsink slots for each left and right torso.

• Lower the heat of large energy weapons while increasing their tonnage. This should make them more viable for heavies while preventing abuse by meds/lights.

• Allow Awesomes to mount bigger engines. As I've said, Awesome is designed to be a lighter Atlas but you can't have less armor and same speed. Without a tradeoff it's just obsolete.

• Do something about the Stalker. It's a very small mech for it's tonnage, it's proportions are definitely off. Make a bit bigger so it has more surface area for damage. Currently it has all the advantages of a Catapult while it's size being similiar even smaller.

If nothing is done, even the upcoming heat changes to large energy weapons are not enough then Awesome will just be irrelevant and obsolete in MWO. Well, except for those "all in" cheese variants with SRM's.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Well a Dragon can't go toe to toe in a brawl with a Cataphract, so does it become a medium mech? Does a Cicada become a light mech because it can't brawl with a Hunchback? An Awesome at 80 tons is right at the border of assault/heavy with a bare 5 ton margin. This does mean that heavies can compete with it, especially 70 and 75 tonners (like the upcoming Orion.) But it still can carry more armor than the heavies (though not as much as the Atlas or Stalker) and puts it in the same boat as other mechs that are at the low end of their weight class, like the Dragon or Cicada. Wouldn't changing it to be a heavy mech just mean that someone in a Dragon or Jagermech (when it gets here) will be facing an Awesome? Still a disparity in firepower and armor. They could change the matchmaking system so that mechs within 5 to 10 tons are interchangeable, so an Awesome that is on one side could be faced by another Awesome, Orion, or Cataphract, as you are correct that Atlas and Stalker chassis' carry more boom.

[MustrumRidcully]

If you put it in as Heavy, people would say that a Awesome is much more powerful than a Dragon and that's imbalanced. Then you put the Dragon in the Medium Bracket, and people will complain the Cicada should be a Light because otherwise it's imbalanced. Then you put the Cicada in the Light bracket and people will copmlain the Spider and Flea have no place alongside the Cicada... And now you're out of mech classes.

The problem is not whether it's called Assault or Heavy, the problem is that the match-maker is currently matching Awesomes with Atlai or Stalkers, and that just doesn't work. The mechs individual strength must be considered better - a mech by mech tonnage balancing system would be better than a mech by mech class balancing system.

[Vassago Rain]

MustrumRidcully, on 03 February 2013 - 02:29 AM, said:

If you put it in as Heavy, people would say that a Awesome is much more powerful than a Dragon and that's imbalanced. Then you put the Dragon in the Medium Bracket, and people will complain the Cicada should be a Light because otherwise it's imbalanced. Then you put the Cicada in the Light bracket and people will copmlain the Spider and Flea have no place alongside the Cicada... And now you're out of mech classes.

The problem is not whether it's called Assault or Heavy, the problem is that the match-maker is currently matching Awesomes with Atlai or Stalkers, and that just doesn't work. The mechs individual strength must be considered better - a mech by mech tonnage balancing system would be better than a mech by mech class balancing system.

The problem is the mechs they picked, not the classes themselves.

[Wrenchfarm]

As always, I'll rep for the Awesomes. I love my 9M (3xPPC) and 8Q (4xLLAS, 3xMLAS, all the heatsinks). Had a good time in the 8R as well (4xSRM6, 2xLLAS).

I think most pilots just build them wrong. If you're running less than max engine you're doing it wrong (well, as long as your XL350 and up for the 9M).

I also suspect most pilots never adjust their armour values, which contributes to their glass reputation. For some reason the Awesome comes with an odd 60/40 split front to back. I bump my front CT up to 75 or 80.

I suspect they will become more popular after the PPC buffs. Going to be sad to go from the only PPC 9M running around to one of the crowd, but ces le vie.

[G is for Gamma]

I think it makes sense. Replace the Awesome with a Heavy mech, the Dragon with a medium, the Cicada with a light mech, and and the Commando with a four door family sedan.

Bad Ideas are bad.