36 replies to this topic

[Cotterpin]

I've spent tons of hours in the forums and it helps. Lots of spectating to see what good pilots do. The MWO community is very supportive, sometimes it's hard to believe this is the internet. But after fifty or so matches I don't think I've improved much, if at all.
The game is great and I'm having fun, but I really worry that I'm making it worse for other players by not knowing/executing my role. I like the light mechs but I've tried heavier ones to try to understand their perspective and how I fit in. I think I'm supposed to run ahead and scout but when I do I pull focus and get trashed. I've had some success staying back and doing damage in support but I feel like that's not fair to my team.
So my questions:
1) How frustrating is it to have someone like me on your team?
2) How can I benefit my team the most in a light mech?
3) Should I be running ahead and finding targets?
4) Will I get the hang of this or are some folks just not cut out for it?

All advice appreciated. Thanks to all those in game and out that have already helped and sorry if you've got stuck with me in a match.

[Cato Phoenix]

It takes a good number of games to really get the hang of it.

First of all, the biggest thing you can do to help your team is generally staying near them. Spotting targets is much more involved now than it was in the past with ECM. You could try taking a brawling medium, heavy or something (I played mostly mediums before running lights) and get up there to do some damage.

As far as scouting goes, don't be afraid to run away. Keep moving and don't feel like you need to do damage.

Finally, I suggest joining a teamspeak channel and working with a group- they can give you real-time pointers and goals.

[Dr B00t]

i felt the same way after about 20 matches...depending on your mech and your knowledge of the game-flow i wouldnt be leading any charges into enemy territory...

also i doubt you are as bad as you say...i thought i was awful but when u join a teamspeak team you begin to realize that its usually the fact that you are dealing w/ other people who can handle themselves instead of following some pub match lemmings into a losing situation

your question about light mechs...it depends what you built for your mech...if you are a super fast mech with enhanced sensors then yes you should try to find the enemy but do not engage or get any closer than you have to...other lights are built for killing other lights (i have a commando that i use just to hunt the enemy's scouts)...and still other lights are meant to join the battle after all the enemy are distracted with your larger friends, that way you can zip in and out causing chaos and taking potshots on their backsides

very rarely in a light should you be standing still

another tip...after you die you should specate other mechs on your team to see how they play...especially other lights since thats what you are trying to figure out

Edited by Dr B00t, 20 December 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[Tenri]

1) I'd take a damage dealer over a dead mech anyday.
2) if you run ECM you can scout safer than a non-ecm light. Now if you mount the largest XL + ECM your even more safer at scouting + tagging + dealing damage. *cough cough Raven 3L cough cough*. If your not in a ECM mech mount MPL or ML and hunt down the ecm mechs that come to harass/scout the team.
If you just got a light mech chances are you won't be able to chase other light mechs so just sit back and concentrate your damage on what ever is being fired on to support the team.
3) See 2
4) Only people that are not cut out for this are people who rage quit. Stick to it upgrade your mech with Engine size/upgrades/ etc... and you'll do even better.

Some advice you might or might not know:
- lowering speed will help your turn radius very helpful for getting your torso lasers(if you have any) on target.
-JJ if you have them you can tap spacebar (defualt) and turn to get an even sharper turn radius


Edit: Stupid coloring code.
Edit2.

Edited by Tenri, 20 December 2012 - 03:55 PM.

[knight-of-ni]

I'm pretty sure it took me a lot longer than 50 matches before I felt like I was "getting it". Just keep playing and you will get better.

You didn't state which light mech you are piloting, but generally speaking you can't go wrong with hanging back with the group. Just don't slow down.

Something else you could try is to pair up with another scout. If you see someone run ahead to scout, let them know you will follow. When you make contact with the enemy, report their position and then run back to the group.

If you have any more specific questions, just let us know.

[Kiiyor]

You could always experiment with different play styles. If you like lights, maybe you could kit out a higher alpha med/heavy/assault and play a 'hit and hide' role; hang back around 300m behind the pack, wait for an enemy to engage, smash them, cower, rinse and repeat.

I used to play that, with moderate success. Teaches you patience, which is very important.

Side B of the mechanical vynil is a dps build - something with decent heat efficiency, but high dps weapons, like a couple of ac2's or 5s, or a swathe of medium lasers. Again, wait for the bad guys to engage, then pour on the hurt. If they aren't taking "OMG WTF JUST HIT ME" damage, they'll likely ignore you, to their detriment.

I have written too much. TL;DR - buy a hunchback 4sp.

[Cotterpin]

Thanks. I'm a running a Jenner 7F. I do a lot of spectating and I think I learn more from that than from my own mistakes. Sadly that means I'm spending a lot of time dead. I'll try hanging back more. I guess live support fire is better than a dead scout. I got on teamspeak was too intimidated to look for a group. Does anybody on TS run training groups?

[Flapdrol]

Raven 3L with ECM and streaks, other lights are at a disadvantage.

If I'm the only one with ecm on the team I'll just stick with the main group, if there's a DDC I try to guard the flank so we dont get outcapped. Once the big brawl starts I'll focus on the ecm commando's, then the ecm ravens, then the other lights. It works pretty well.

scouting at the beginning of a match is next to useless, you'll only help the other team stay together and you'll get focussed down.

[knight-of-ni]

Yep, that's normal. As a light, one small mistake can mean sudden death.

If you can stay alive longer than the other team's scouts, then you put your team at a great advantage.
Once that happens, it gets easier to run behind the larger enemy mechs and shoot them in the back.
As a light, try to attack the enemy from the side and back. Avoid attacking from the front.

Edited by knnniggett, 20 December 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[DeadEyeDeale]

*I think the Teamspeak has some guys on it who run training groups. 'Education Center' I think the channel or group of channels is called. Not sure when they run it, but you might hang out in it while you play a few matches and see if someone drops by*

I also had a lot of trouble with light mechs for a while. Some of the things which help me:

• Huge friggin' engine. While the difference between 80 kph and 120 kph doesn't sound or even feel like a whole lot - its a huge advantage. You are not only harder to hit, but you can actively dodge incoming LRMs, and when you stumble into enemies they have way less time to chew you up. Consider taking 1 full salvo from an Atlas instead of 2. Big difference.
  
• Armor - There isn't much weight to play with on a light. While you might want to mount a lot of weapons to get in some good hits on people's backs, being alive is way more important. If you're dead you can't scout and gather intel. You also won't do much damage that way. If you die on your first mistake or first run in, then you aren't going to help out your team. Some will disagree, but I take Lots of armor.
  
• Often ignore extra Heat Sinks: Unless fighting in a pitched battle, fighting another light who can chase you, or trying to keep pressure up, you don't need as much heat control. Think of it like this: Since you can pop into a fight quickly, fire a bunch, and then often have to run away once they focus you - you will be shedding heat while running around/away. It is great when you can circle strafe someone to death, but if the enemy has a couple of people grouped up they'll often just shred you. So you have to run away sometimes. This means you can build up a bunch of heat, and then run off to cool down. The enemy will also cool down if not engaged - but they generally have more weapons and you need to stay away rather than keep them heated up. So your hit-and-run tactics tie in well with heat management. This also means you can focus on burst damage rather than sustained damage.

Hope some of that helps!

Edited by DeadEyeDeale, 20 December 2012 - 04:12 PM.

[Joe3142]

It took me ages to get used to it, it seems really wierd for a while and then you seem to get used to it suddenly, tends to have a steep learning curve. I found that doing this as simple as re-mapping some of my controls made things alot easier, because they are in a layout that I can easly remember and use. I changed controls like my weapon grouping, because it was horrid with arrow keys, changed them to:
It might seem like a odd combo, but it is what worked for me, just changing the mapping around made a surprising difference.
Also, I set it so that a side button on my mouse fires weapon group three, left is defaulted a weapon group 2, and mouse button one fires the selected group, which is always 1 for me, it just seemed simple so I dont have to keep reaching up for buttons 1-6.

If you are in a scout maybe you could drive it slower (Sticking with team mates), then you might pick up the handling on the mechs a bit better if you get to fully or see how they move.

[LynxFury]

"scouting at the beginning of a match is next to useless,"

Interesting philophical difference. I think the MOST useful time for scouts to do their job is in the first couple minutes of a match...find them, report them.

Specific examples: Assault mode on the forest maps...go thermal, head to the shore and look for a water rush.

You've done your primary job at that point. Use cover and break contact. At that point you're more a support platform use your speed to cap, counter cap, tag or get another small mech off your support dudes behind. Pairing up hunter killer stye to take out enemy missile boats is another powerful role--one take fire, while the other melts his backside. Team speak and share information about what's critical.

Last word, don't be a hero. Fast mechs are an enemy fire sponge due to poor netcode, but don't get killed. The side that looses the first mech, usually looses them all. Don't be that first mech down.

[Phelan Ward-Kell]

A great thread, because someone is looking for help to get better.
Here is my bits of advice, please take them or leave them as you will.

Firstly: Light mechs can fulfill a few rolls, but it depends on your weapon loadout and piloting style.
-Headhunter: You sneak around the map and look for other lights, or mediums, and take them down.
-Scout: You're fast(100+ preferred, 120+ recommended). Speed is your advantage, avoid running in straight lines, don't stick around long. ECM is a huge advantage as a scout as well.
-Harasser: This can be done by scouts or headhunters regardless. You want to be a distraction, but you don't want to be predictable. No circle of death tactics or straight lines. Zip in, fire off some shops, zip out.

Avoid running in to things. This can be tricky, so I recommend not twisting your torso more than 45 degrees in combat situations. This will ensure you always see what is ahead of you.

Numbers are powerful for light mechs: If you can run with 1 or more other lights, you're increasing your survival chances.


One last recommendation I have may not be to your liking, but here it is: Get on one of the public Teamspeak servers and group up with 3 other guys. This is a team game, so if you want to know what is necessary to help your team, you need to be in the best position to communicate and work with your team.
^For this last point, you're welcome to hop on the NGNG Teamspeak server. They have lots of public drops, and if you would like to you can drop down to the Hammer[ed] Tactical Contracting channel to see how it's done.

[Tenri]

Ah, hmm or you could join Gensokyo we don't have a TS but we're on C3 (DL) see the link <===. a nice easy going bunch of people that run whatever they want no obligations! A casual, the best, merc corp themed around Touhou! (Touhou knowledge is optional.)
Edit: Or you can drop in C3 to drop with us ^^/

Edited by Tenri, 20 December 2012 - 04:41 PM.

[Kastergir]

Making it short...

• every game you walk away from alive...was a good game. When I found the first idk how many matches I was dieing in every single one, I made "Stay alive!" my only objective for quite a while. It helped me a great deal understanding the dynamics of a match as well as my own capabilities better.

After that, everything began falling into place more and more...still learning every day .

Hope you enjoy the game, and good Luck!

[Elizander]

I would prefer my team scouts know how to harass and kill enemy scouts, but I'm also fine if you're good at backstabbing heavies and assaults. We're all here to learn so I really won't be too upset if someone in my team is learning the ropes.

[Cotterpin]

Phigment I would argue what makes this and so many other threads here great is the amount of people willing to take time to give positive feedback. I put this up a few hours ago and already so many folks helping out. It's much appreciated and a makes me enjoy the game more.

My jenner has 3MLs per arm and the hit and run keeps the heat in check. I'm finding more success harassing. Anything solo is a death sentence for me. So are other lights, but I think that's my lack of piloting skills rather than an understanding of tactics. And, yeah, running into things; river city night (great map) gets me lost quick. All things to work on.

Thanks again everyone

[Locan Ravok]

If you stay close to the main group and support fire after the battle is join, you will survive more and contribute more to the team. Scout is no about touch the enemy also, you can spot movement from 1 km away. Thake a quick pick if you want so you can relay information without getting killed.

[Kiiyor]

Locan Ravok, on 20 December 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

If you stay close to the main group and support fire after the battle is join, you will survive more and contribute more to the team. Scout is no about touch the enemy also, you can spot movement from 1 km away. Thake a quick pick if you want so you can relay information without getting killed.

This is also excellent advice!

A lone scout is the focus of EVERYONE. Just watch the ludicrous amount of blue triangles that veer after one red one. Even great light pilots can't survive for ever with that kind of attention.

If you stick with the group however, you are far less of a priority target, unless you do something stupid like shut down. Think about it; you come across a pack of enemies, with an atlas on point, will you prioritise a Jenner you probably can't even hit over that threat? Nope. Your job in this instance is to duck and weave through the melee, and kick people in the back and then cheese it like you're a cowardly soccer hooligan. People panic when their back armor starts flashing. Use that to your advantage.

[Lon3Wo1f]

Cotterpin, on 20 December 2012 - 03:31 PM, said:

1) How frustrating is it to have someone like me on your team?
2) How can I benefit my team the most in a light mech?
3) Should I be running ahead and finding targets?
4) Will I get the hang of this or are some folks just not cut out for it?

1) It isn't frustrating. I'd prefer someone trying their best over someone charging off doing their own thing and dying fast. I'm guilty of doing the charging off thing quite a lot and nobody says anything to me.
2) Scout but avoid contact. Peek over the top of a hill or around the corner of a building slowly. The best information you can give is what you see and where it looks to be headed but even just a rough number like 3 in tunnel on frozen city (? forgot the name) or 2 heading left on Caustic will give the team an idea of what to do and how to be ready. Don't engage. A dead scout is rather useless. If you start taking fire try to head back to your team and where possible zig zag through cover such as buildings or using small hills. Anything to take less damage. After scouting you can help the assaults by staying near them to deal with enemy lights or harass enemy heavies and assaults when the main fight starts.
3) That's one role lights can do but as I said above you can also help friendly Mechs that aren't as agile or harass the enemy. If a heavy or assault takes time trying to kill you that leaves your heavies and assaults free to take advantage of your distraction.
4) If you have fun and enjoy the game does it matter if you're the best or worst player? I'd say that it can be a bit unforgiving at times if you come up against good light pilots or run into people working together since you die very fast but stick with it. It helps to have voice comms so take advantage of the TeamSpeak servers and hop on there. Even if you die horribly it tends to be more fun

In short don't apologise for playing and learning.