233 replies to this topic

[The Testiclops]

Thats why it should not be pure tech.

Edited by Athanos Kerensky, 12 January 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[Saxdasm]

i dont see what every one is crying about. clan tech creates more heat sometimes trades range for firepower or heat for range. they pretty much balance themselves. a mech has to be entirely clan or entirely i.s. which means that certain weapons aren't available to both sides. clan mechs seem to always come with an xl engine which makes them more vulnerable. again a trade for more firepower. i personally think if they keep true to battletech then there will be no problems with clan tech. the real problem is how they keep nerfing and balancing i.s. tech trying to make this cod with mechs

[Helbourne]

IF this game is only going to be team deathmatch first person 'twitchy' shooter, I guess go ahead and balance everything away to plain jane boring hum drum. Make everything equal (IS and Clan) and just change a few names just for a little bit of flavor.

IF this is going to be a 'real' warfare style game, things CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be 'balanced'. Clan tech is supposed to be more advanced than IS. Do you honestly wait for your enemy to have the exact number of units with the same weapons as you do before you attack? Umm NO if you want to win. You have to learn to use your resources wisely. Learn where to commit your units. You should worry about being out numbered. Quanity is a quality all of its own. If you control a planet with a lot of resources on it, you better make sure you have all the mechs you need to defend it. Don't have a few light and construction mechs that are half broken.

Just like Saxdasm said, this not CoD with mechs. Stop thinking this is a standard FPS, its not! And to the Devs... if it is supposed to be CoD with mechs, please let me know now so I can move on to a new game.

Edited by Helbourne, 12 January 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Saxdasm, on 12 January 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

i dont see what every one is crying about. clan tech creates more heat sometimes trades range for firepower or heat for range. they pretty much balance themselves. a mech has to be entirely clan or entirely i.s. which means that certain weapons aren't available to both sides. clan mechs seem to always come with an xl engine which makes them more vulnerable. again a trade for more firepower. i personally think if they keep true to battletech then there will be no problems with clan tech. the real problem is how they keep nerfing and balancing i.s. tech trying to make this cod with mechs

No, it doesn't balance itself. It is intentionally build more powerful.

Inner Sphere ER PPC: 10 damage, 15 heat, 7 tons, 3 Crits
Clan ER PPC: 15 damage, 15 heat, 6 tons, 2 Crits.
IS Streak 2: 1.5 tons, 1 Crit, max range 9 Hexes / 270m, 2 damage / missile /(fires 2 missiles), 2 Heat
CLan Streak: 1 ton, 1 Crit, max range 12 Hexes / 360m, 2 damage /misissile /(fires 2 missiles), 2 Heat

Clan XL Engines only need 2 Crit Slots in the side torso. To destroy an engine, it need to basically lose 3 crit slots (or take 3 crits). CLan XL Engines are less prone to destruction than IS XL Engines. Basically, you will need to shoot of both side torsos to destroy a Clan mech with XL Engines. And not to forget, their Endo Steel needs less Crits, their Ferro Fibrous needs less crits and provides more armour per ton., and their double heat sinks need less crits as well.

The list goes on. Everytime you compare Clan weapons to IS weapons, you will find some serious advantages for Clan Tech. Clan Tech is superior by design.

It's a thing I hate about Clans and Battletech in the post 3050. I dislike power creep intensely. But that's Battletech. The way to try to reign in these imbalances was battle value. I strongly doubt that PGI is able to pull off a working battle value system, however. The skill needed to make a decent battle value system is the same skill set you need to make weapon balanced stats, and so far they haven't delivered on the latter, so I see no reason to believe they can achieve the former.

[Cferre]

Quote

Balanced (gotta make it fair)

Lol'd in RL.

[CeeKay Boques]

I think that if they do bring full Clan Tech, it should be a Clan Star Vs 8 IS Mechs, 8 v 5.

[Vaneshi SnowCrash]

MourningZero, on 21 December 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

We should have until May, 3052 before the clans start revising their use of zellbrigen.

IS: "I challenge you, just you, to a duel... Bethemin... whatever!"
C: "Okedokey"
IS: *insert noise of 3 other Mech's powering* Sup?
C: "Why you violence my Mech?"

I think GoonSwa... erm.. Word of Lowtax just spooged themselves.

[Stormwolf]

I wouldn't want Clan tech if the game remains in its current state. There are already too many balance issues with things like ECM at this point. Clan tech would only make things worse IMO.

I sometimes think that we'd be better of in a 3025 or 3039 setting. It's not like your average player is going to know or care about the significance of the 3050 setting. PGI isn't really putting any effort into telling the storyline anyway, so it's all a wasted effort.

[Helbourne]

The big question I have regards to 'balancing' is how they are going to do community warfare. Is the current 'match' style the only way war is going to be decided? So this side won, they are from this House so score a point over here. Cause last time I checked you do not want fair fights in warfare. You want to out number your enemy. You want superior firepower. War is just not a zero sum game.

Right now, currently, with the style as is now, you might as well make everything zero sum. However zero sum war would be so stale and boring.

[Armorpiercer M82]

unmodified, and please all tech till 3070.

[Ozric]

It's true that whatever they do with the clans totally depends on what their plans are for community warfare. Everything is pure speculation until then.

Edited by Ozric, 12 January 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Yammato]

Ryokens leap, on 21 December 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

PGI should freeze the timeline and forget about Clan invasion until I.S. gameplay is balanced out and netcode problems, ect are brought under control. We havnt even scratched the surface of I.S. combat and game modes, why cause more problems with Clan tech. Yes we all want Timberwolves, Summoners and Stormcrows but not if the game is full of bugs.

I completely agree. Why complicate things further? I really want to play with the clan tech and all that razamataz. But if the game is not stable and balancing is still an issue then they need to buy time.
Ive had this conversation with my freinds before the best balance method that I can think of is charge alot of cbills to balance out the unfairness of clan tech. Clan tech is by nature a unfair tactical advantage. After all they are the remenants of the star league. The innersphere is always playing catch up.

[azov]

Teams need to be split 5 clan vs 8 IS. Clan tech must be expensive, and it must be hard to obtain. It shouldnt be possible to mountclan tech immediately on your IS chassis either. You should be forced to choose a side. I think woth a price drop for IS equipment help prusade most casual players from joining the clans. Along with being 5 v 8 a true clan pilot would call this a more than fair match.

[Enervation]

I say translate the clan tech as it is, but also under a few assumptions. if anyone can hop into a blackhawk or thor and que up with inner sphere hunchies and phracts, then i vote ballance the heck out of that equipment.

Obviously i am of the oppinion that launching in a clan mech gets you qued with other clan mechs, although i dont see why you shouldnt be able to have your trusty gausscat side by side with your mad cat in the mechbay.

I agree with the above oppinion that clanners should be launched in five point stars, giving IS vs Clan matches uneven numbers at launch.

I also think that clanners should not be able to launch as a group, forcing them to pug. there are two reasons for this, 1 being in the lore clan pilots would only fight 1 on 1 for honor reasons and dropping as a group suggests that the mechwarriors would work together as a team to bring down their foes. 2 anyone who has played in a pug vs team match (especially in earlier beta when the entire opposing team could be grouped) knows that coordination and team skill outweigh what your mech is hauling around by a longshot.

this said, i am dreading getting facerolled clanners who either nuke me with lrms at point blank or slice me to ribbons from across the map... with medium lasers. Alas i would like to say 'balance the clan mechs with restrictive hardpoints!' but almost all the clan mechs used are omni mechs.

One last thing that i would like to see (not changed from TT that is, if you were thinking 'stay on target!') is that only the mech's pod space can be tweaked, not any of the other components, such as engine rating, endo/ferro crit space, build in heatsinks, etc.

[Yokaiko]

If they mean balanced like the balanced "double" heatsinks, yeah I'll pass.

[Stormwolf]

Yokaiko, on 12 January 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

If they mean balanced like the balanced "double" heatsinks, yeah I'll pass.

Your remark got me thinking about the Hellbringer/Loki, the primary configuration can never be viable in MWO due to the heat issues.

[TungstenWall]

The way i see it:

We pilots have vastly superior mechs to standard issue mechs on the IS. No we don't have Clantech, but we are able to push our mechs to the limits of speed and firepower. Why do you think it is so hard to kill most custom mechs with a Stock?

When Clans invade, we will likely get our hands on copycat prototypes, and clan mechs that have very limited customization. I could see Clan mechs only having a few choices in what to put in their hardpoints while IS can put anything anywhere. You may even be stuck using Stock Clan mechs only?

[Lycan]

Adridos, on 21 December 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

Ahh, the Clan tech.

No minimumm range LRMs.
SSRM6s.
UAC/2,/10 and /20.
1 crit DHS. 2 crit "Improved heat sinks"

Definitely needs some tweaks in any way, shape or form.

Fixed it for ya.

[Lycan]

They should keep clan tech as it is.

But do to the fact that this is a competitive online FPS, they're going to have to neuter it so that it's "balanced" and "fair". I mean, look, a Jenner can currently take out 1 or 2, if not a lance of Atlai and that just shouldn't be possible.

[Rift Hawk]

Helbourne, on 12 January 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

IF this game is only going to be team deathmatch first person 'twitchy' shooter, I guess go ahead and balance everything away to plain jane boring hum drum. Make everything equal (IS and Clan) and just change a few names just for a little bit of flavor.

IF this is going to be a 'real' warfare style game, things CANNOT and SHOULD NOT be 'balanced'. Clan tech is supposed to be more advanced than IS. Do you honestly wait for your enemy to have the exact number of units with the same weapons as you do before you attack? Umm NO if you want to win. You have to learn to use your resources wisely. Learn where to commit your units. You should worry about being out numbered. Quanity is a quality all of its own. If you control a planet with a lot of resources on it, you better make sure you have all the mechs you need to defend it. Don't have a few light and construction mechs that are half broken.

Just like Saxdasm said, this not CoD with mechs. Stop thinking this is a standard FPS, its not! And to the Devs... if it is supposed to be CoD with mechs, please let me know now so I can move on to a new game.

While I completely agree with you, what then would stop everyone from using clan mechs and making inner sphere mechs obsolete ? I agree that this should not be another dumbed down shooter but If Clan mechs are what they should be, Inner Sphere mechs aren't going to be played. Simply raising the price or XP values of Clan mechs aren't going to solve that problem either. So there would have to be some incentive to still play Inner Sphere....