106 replies to this topic

[Sarevos]

Malacay, on 22 December 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

And the LoL Community is the most or one of the most obnoxious communities on the internet...

This sums it up pretty effectively: www.cad-comic.com/cad/20121217

lol I believe that is the whole internet community represented in a nutshell

Edited by Sarevos, 22 December 2012 - 05:58 AM.

[Redoxin]

Sarevos, on 22 December 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

Because its point is not to be a bragging right but a tool to let you know youre not doing something right in a properly ranked setting if you have less than 1.0 thus being the "tool for improvement" many people would be looking for

And again (sigh): with the ELO system the W/L wont tell you anymore how good you do. If you win a few, you get harder opponents until you finally lose a few. Which means if you play better, you climb in ELO, even though your W/L will barely improve because you get harder opponents.
Which is why ELO is MUCH better at showing you how you improve. Because it always reflects your CURRENT level, not what you did over the last months like W/D.

[Sarevos]

Redoxin, on 22 December 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

And again (sigh): with the ELO system the W/L wont tell you anymore how good you do. If you win a few, you get harder opponents until you finally lose a few. Which means if you play better, you climb in ELO, even though your W/L will barely improve because you get harder opponents.
Which is why ELO is MUCH better at showing you how you improve. Because it always reflects your CURRENT level, not what you did over the last months like W/D.

ok wait. what ive been saying is that without the elo system w/l is pointless because it doesnt indicate skill just circumstance your elo goes up a fair amount if you beat a team much higher rank than you and goes down alot if you lose to someone much lower now if you often play people higher than your level and lose to them but beat people a fair amount higher than you enough your ELO remains fairly stationary while your W/L goes down indicating that youre doing something wrong ~50% of the time even though vs those higher ranked players youre either getting lucky or playing better thus w/l being a red flag of a sort

Edited by Sarevos, 22 December 2012 - 06:17 AM.

[Redoxin]

Sarevos, on 22 December 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

ok wait. what ive been saying is that without the elo system w/l is pointless because it doesnt indicate skill just circumstance your elo goes up a fair amount if you beat a team much higher rank than you and goes down alot if you lose to someone much lower now if you often play people higher than your level and lose to them but beat people a fair amount higher than you enough your ELO remains fairly stationary while your W/L goes down indicating that youre doing something wrong ~50% of the time even though vs those higher ranked players youre either getting lucky or playing better thus w/l being a red flag of a sort

Ah ok we are on the same page then. Guess I misunderstood you.

Bu a small hint, some punctuation would really help with understanding your posts.

[Sarevos]

Redoxin, on 22 December 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

Ah ok we are on the same page then. Guess I misunderstood you.

Bu a small hint, some punctuation would really help with understanding your posts.

i cant really sorry XD im on a tablet thats finicky as ****

[Horned Bull]

I want to see personal rating of the most of forum whiners. I really want to know K/D ratio of the "nerf X buff Y" people.

[Exoth3rmic]

Regardless of the whys and wherefores of how the system is to be implemented; simply having it will be a talking point when you're discussing it with others. You can explain why you think X & X is happening and adjust play style accordingly to see whether you gain any appreciable progress within the given system.

This is only a benefit to all.

Keeping it hidden makes this quite considerably harder and is really simply a veil to avoiding the inevitable realisation of just how most of us will be considered average without putting real thought or effort in to improvement or team tactics.

[Cferre]

Ah yes. This reminds me of WoW that f.ucked the game up; ''link achievement or no invite!!!''
Making this public will only promote elitisme and makes people biased.

Exoth3rmic, on 22 December 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

Keeping it hidden makes this quite considerably harder and is really simply a veil to avoiding the inevitable realisation of just how most of us will be considered average without putting real thought or effort in to improvement or team tactics.

Exoth3rmic, on 22 December 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

This is only a benefit to all.

Wrong.

This has more negative consequences than it has a positive effect on the game community.
Assessing the talents of people through actual practical experience is the most honest way to go.

Edited by Cferre, 22 December 2012 - 06:57 AM.

[Sarevos]

Cferre, on 22 December 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

Ah yes. This reminds me of WoW that fudged the game up; ''link achievement or no invite!!!''

Yea i remember that. It's why i quit wow, but I'm afraid ladder rankings should exist and be public as this game is pvp oriented. Even if they have a seperate ranked queue there needs to be one or there is no evolving end game. There also needs to be ranks for cw in addition to just faction benefits or people will lose interest. Thats the nature of the beast =/

Edited by Sarevos, 22 December 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[Major Cockburn]

HRR Insanity, on 21 December 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

There is no benefit to having ELO/MM rankings public.

there is for clan/unit recruiting, saves time you know if the prospect sucks up front, you don't have to waste time finding it out.

Edited by Major Cockburn, 22 December 2012 - 07:04 AM.

[Exoth3rmic]

Cferre, on 22 December 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

This has more negative consequences than it has a positive effect on the game community.
Assessing the talents of people through actual practical experience is the most honest way to go.

My post was about having the metric and it then being something about which people can talk about. People talking is beneficial.

Whatever metric you think is of relevance at this particularly moment in time - the only thing people want to talk about is what the most important currently available statistic we have to measure that it-(k/ds, w/l, avg xp).

So people do want a measure of comparison. Including you. You even state "actual practical experience". How that can be measured without a discussion of why you keep dieing more than average or why your w/l is so skewed (as an example) is using a stat to discuss actual practical experience. You may well find people are more of an asset to a team through dieing early and often - but i suspect this is unlikely to be the case.

As an edit for a later post with the point about seprating some game modes from the rating system - absoloutely. More game modes or at least some place to mess about casually is necessary.

Edited by Exoth3rmic, 22 December 2012 - 07:13 AM.

[Murphy7]

Alaric the Arcane, on 21 December 2012 - 08:38 PM, said:

They are working on including more stats (which will be public), as well as a rating system (Elo). There's no reason for this information to not be public. Unless of course you talk a load of **** on the forums and when these stats hit you'll be discovered as a baddy.

Of course it wouldn't in any way influence game play, vis a vis disconnect before death.

I would appreciate a separation along the lines of league play and "friendlies".

"League" play, stats are recorded and made public
"Friendly" play, stats are not recorded and you are freer to play your lol-mech designs and work out the kinks in new variants and game modes.

[SI The Joker]

Stats will probably be public to appease the kids who want to brag to their friends how incredible their K/D ratio is.

The reality is that most stats in this game, sans for a firing/damage/accuracy rating, would be completely and utterly pointless.

[Cferre]

Murphy7, on 22 December 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

Of course it wouldn't in any way influence game play, vis a vis disconnect before death.

I would appreciate a separation along the lines of league play and "friendlies".

"League" play, stats are recorded and made public
"Friendly" play, stats are not recorded and you are freer to play your lol-mech designs and work out the kinks in new variants and game modes.

Separate stats for each mech you drive since each mech has (possibly) a different roll.

[HRR Insanity]

Major Cockburn, on 22 December 2012 - 07:02 AM, said:

there is for clan/unit recruiting, saves time you know if the prospect sucks up front, you don't have to waste time finding it out.

Statistics aren't the best way to pick a good unit member. You can easily tell if someone plays well by playing with them a few times. Disregarding/discounting people because of their 'stats', while easy, it's not going to be ultimately as useful as real playtime within the group dynamic.

[Major Cockburn]

HRR Insanity, on 22 December 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Statistics aren't the best way to pick a good unit member. You can easily tell if someone plays well by playing with them a few times. Disregarding/discounting people because of their 'stats', while easy, it's not going to be ultimately as useful as real playtime within the group dynamic.

Obviously there's more to the recruiting process than just stats, but Elo or other stats are a great starting point to thin out the applications and let you focus on the worthwhile candidates.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Zero Neutral, on 22 December 2012 - 01:13 AM, said:

I disagree. Bragging rights are earned. People who think otherwise have never earned any.

Not sharing stats allows people who have not earned bragging rights, to brag. Players who do not want their stats to be viewed are afkers, suiciders, or baddies. If a player judges another player based upon their perfoarmance then that is fair. If a player mis-treats another player because of their stats, then obvious dork is obvious, nothing will change that.

Statistics help to determine a player's worth.

Once the netcode is fixed and lights are no longer uber, then ELO should be implemented for ranked games. This stat should be viewable by all players and also be separate from normal stats.

well i'm happy to say my win loss is 262/491, kills deaths are 186/518 and i have a kill ratio of 0.36. let the high and mighty bullying commence to drive me away from the game and a pompus community!

btw many of these "elite" stats have been built on the back of op builds equipment game bugs anyways. i'm sure many of the high ratings have lrmed, lagshielded, twin gaussed, streacked and ecmed to many victorys so stats not taking assists and spotting etc into consideration really don't distinguish the individuals skills of a player rather the team and mech setups and who's exploiting broken mechanics at the moment. that and puggers do worse than organised premades so anyone's stats means nothing to me, i see some famillier names still get taken out in the first 2 mins of gameplay caused they were caught by surprise or the first g*ngb*ng victim. the game's more complicated to consider pilot skills than on the basic stats board we have now. you really gotta see them in action to understand if they're a good team player and can handle the heat and aweareness of different battle styles, instead of just skullking in the background letting others die so they pick up the easy tabs or be blown away as soon as someone confronts him.

here's an example of how stats can be achieved by little to no skill whatso ever... note how in chat near the end some guy compliments the player and then realises just how crazy powerfull twin gauss is especially when you let everyone else take the punishment... and the misses were edited out lol

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 22 December 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[Mavairo]

HRR Insanity, on 22 December 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

Statistics aren't the best way to pick a good unit member. You can easily tell if someone plays well by playing with them a few times. Disregarding/discounting people because of their 'stats', while easy, it's not going to be ultimately as useful as real playtime within the group dynamic.

DO NOT TELL HIM THIS!
What do you want to give away the secret of building successful Premades away or something?

[Camulos]

The problem is that people look at KvD which means little to nothing. Win vs Loss ratio is what should matter in this game. Ask anyone who pays attention while they play.

If someone does 100ish damage during a game and ends up with 3 kills it's obvious they are poaching kills off someone else's hard work and it happens ALL the time.

I would rather win the game then lose with some cheesehead pulling down 4 kills on his own. When/if community warfare and territory changing hands comes into play wins and losses is the only stat that will matter.

[siLve00]

k/d ?

i stated it before.. k/d means nothing...
for ppl who have a low k/d :

get a fast mech ( 1 you feel comfortable with ... but with fast i mean realy fast ) ...

use ppc or gaus or even a ac20 ( if you have the hardpoints ) ... stay out of every direct fireline... wait until the inner armor goes near to boom.. sprint out.. killshot and cya.
if your team is losing.. look for a safespot ( lag out ) or shutdow.

a friend of me did that with a new account.. 13.50 k/d after 50 matches... there goes ya k/d bubble lol

not to mention that earlier lrm boats had a k/d way higher as 20.0 ^^

Edited by siLve00, 22 December 2012 - 04:54 PM.