47 replies to this topic

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

I dont think ECM is really that bad. But it does over-reach a little and is far more useful than any other piece of equipment for the same weight and crits. The biggest thing that bothers me, and not from a balance perspective, is that the system doesn't really make sense. It bugs me that it can effect the sensors of mechs outside of its range. How can you imagine that a sophisticated piece of military hardware from the far future comes with an on board computer that cannot place an enemy unit on the battle grid for its pilot. The pilot can visually identify the target. The target shows up in thermo vision. I'm sure the target shows up in a variety of other sensor displays. How is it that the computer cannot correlate this mech shaped object that is walking like a mech and has the same heat profile of a moving battlemech and come to the conclusion that it is indeed a battlemech, and clearly not a friendly. I could buy in if it placed it on the battlegrid but targeting information was slow or incomplete(though its a stretch to think the computer wouldn't be able to visiually identify chassis and possibly variant). How is it that the pilot cant target the mech he can visually ID and tell the onboard computer to track that target? I think that whatever effects they come up with are fairly fair game within the ECM bubble, but the way it functions right now, effecting the entire map, just doesn't make sense, balance issues aside.

[Javok]

Redmond Spiderhammer, on 22 December 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I dont think ECM is really that bad. But it does over-reach a little and is far more useful than any other piece of equipment for the same weight and crits. The biggest thing that bothers me, and not from a balance perspective, is that the system doesn't really make sense. It bugs me that it can effect the sensors of mechs outside of its range. How can you imagine that a sophisticated piece of military hardware from the far future comes with an on board computer that cannot place an enemy unit on the battle grid for its pilot. The pilot can visually identify the target. The target shows up in thermo vision. I'm sure the target shows up in a variety of other sensor displays. How is it that the computer cannot correlate this mech shaped object that is walking like a mech and has the same heat profile of a moving battlemech and come to the conclusion that it is indeed a battlemech, and clearly not a friendly. I could buy in if it placed it on the battlegrid but targeting information was slow or incomplete(though its a stretch to think the computer wouldn't be able to visiually identify chassis and possibly variant). How is it that the pilot cant target the mech he can visually ID and tell the onboard computer to track that target? I think that whatever effects they come up with are fairly fair game within the ECM bubble, but the way it functions right now, effecting the entire map, just doesn't make sense, balance issues aside.

Very good point, we should be able to change to a passive system such as Thermal and get a lock (if we assume the mech has a ranging laser to provide range data) on a mech within LOS.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Javok, on 22 December 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Very good point, we should be able to change to a passive system such as Thermal and get a lock (if we assume the mech has a ranging laser to provide range data) on a mech within LOS.

I'd just like the ability to manually mark targets vs relying 100% on autodetect. It would help level out the blanace of ECM as you could have it still completely block auto-detect while still allowing manual targeting.

[Major Cockburn]

SpiralRazor, on 22 December 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

[REDACTED]

I'm terribad yet I'm not the one who cant figure out how to kill ecm lights etc.... LOL w/e l2p

Edited by Stickjock, 22 December 2012 - 01:23 PM.
quote clean-up

[Kasiagora]

Redmond Spiderhammer, on 22 December 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I dont think ECM is really that bad. But it does over-reach a little and is far more useful than any other piece of equipment for the same weight and crits. The biggest thing that bothers me, and not from a balance perspective, is that the system doesn't really make sense. It bugs me that it can effect the sensors of mechs outside of its range. How can you imagine that a sophisticated piece of military hardware from the far future comes with an on board computer that cannot place an enemy unit on the battle grid for its pilot. The pilot can visually identify the target. The target shows up in thermo vision. I'm sure the target shows up in a variety of other sensor displays. How is it that the computer cannot correlate this mech shaped object that is walking like a mech and has the same heat profile of a moving battlemech and come to the conclusion that it is indeed a battlemech, and clearly not a friendly. I could buy in if it placed it on the battlegrid but targeting information was slow or incomplete(though its a stretch to think the computer wouldn't be able to visiually identify chassis and possibly variant). How is it that the pilot cant target the mech he can visually ID and tell the onboard computer to track that target? I think that whatever effects they come up with are fairly fair game within the ECM bubble, but the way it functions right now, effecting the entire map, just doesn't make sense, balance issues aside.

I can go along with that. I agree that this game could benefit from your typical "Q" button marking system. I know people will probably say, "That's what TAG is!" but maybe if TAG had its own hardpoint similar to AMS on all mechs rather than taking a point from a weapon and when you TAG a target it remains tagged until you lose LOS? I dunno. Just spitballing now. Maybe make it a function of the command console. That you can designate mechs and have them targetable by friendlies whether ECM'd or not. A further interesting tweak that I'm sure everyone would truly hate is if your designations only showed up to the people you dropped with in 4-man group play so it's only benefiting your own lance. This would weaken people who play solo more than they're already hurting, which would suck, but if there was a 12v12 mode of play where people only communicated to their lance... well, I'm rambling. G'night, folks!

Edited by Kasiagora, 23 December 2012 - 12:40 AM.

[Dodger79]

Major Cockburn, on 22 December 2012 - 09:47 AM, said:

the vast majority of weapons are unaffected by ECM and are great for killing ecm equipped mechs. You seem to lack a point other than "i want my weapon of choice to be op."

No. The point is that it is not good balancing if a device for 400.000 C-Bills, 1,5 tons and 2 crit slots can only be countered by a device of the same kind, while making lock-on weapons almost useless, which, sadly, appear to be the only viable weapons against lights for players with high pings and completetly neglecting, at a price of 400k C-Bills, the very expensive to buy and hard to earn GXP-wise modules like sensor range, target information, 360° targeting worth 30.000 GXP and 12.000.000. (12 millions!!!) C-Bills. And it does not even need a hardpoint "wasted" like TAG or performed skill-related actions like aiming anf "firing" the device (like TAG).

Together with the lagshield, damage spread and double armor it makes lights very hard upto impossible (if piloted really good) to kill for players with higher pings. And that is gamebreaking. Remember all the almighty Jenners running around in closed beta? They're gone, almost completely. Now the rise of the Raven and Commando is happening and that is quite a clear sign that ECM has changed the game drastically when it's banning several chassis from being played.

ECM is not an automatic i-win-device, but it is a gamechanger. And i am not sure if it is the right changes with lagshield still in place and collisions still missing.

In a PUG-match it is not that much of a problem, but as an 8-man-premade you are forced to play cheesy to stand a chance with the core-"tactic" of how to handle ECM and enemy ECM-equipped lights.

[Rippthrough]

Make it 5 tons, issue solved.

You want it on a lag-shielded light? Well fine, so long as you're happy with a few small lasers instead of a full compliment of weaponry.
Want it on your D-DC? Okay, happy to swap it for that large laser?

Make it a choice, not a necessity.