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"Elite Only" Custom Mechs


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#141 Tyra

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:03 AM

View PostGauge, on 30 May 2012 - 02:17 AM, said:

Right, a custom "Founder's Battlemech", and it only comes with the Elite level package. One package is Elite, the other is Veteran. The Founder's Battlemech only comes in the Elite one. It's not referencing the mech as being elite, though frankly, I don't care which one you call it, it's just semantics.


Exactly. The 'elite' refers to the $60.00 package and not a 'level' of the mechs.

#142 AntharPrime

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:07 AM

Does it have fuzzy dice? I'm hoping that besides just a fancy paint job it would have a little more room for equipement and maybe a little edge in heat management.

#143 Tyra

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:33 AM

View PostAntharPrime, on 30 May 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

Does it have fuzzy dice? I'm hoping that besides just a fancy paint job it would have a little more room for equipement and maybe a little edge in heat management.


I want to strap speakers to the torso and blare Elvis Presley.

#144 Sassori

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:32 PM

View PostSuckyJack, on 28 May 2012 - 06:31 PM, said:


Hardpoints can be Pay2Win. Take an Atlas but shift one ballistic hardpoint from the RT to the LT. Crit space has just become less of a concern for those ballistic hardpoints since they aren't sharing from the same pool, even if it is 'balanced' by the loss of it's missile hardpoints. If you can get that variant only by buying it with real money then builds are allowed that cannot be matched by free players.

If the free version of a Jenner has only 2 energy hardpoints per arm but a premium only Jenner has 3 but gives up the missile hardpoints then you can squeeze in 2 large lasers with a bit of minimal sacrifices.

Different builds allow mechs to perform differently, have different advantages and disadvantages. When some of that flexibility is premium only then the game becomes Pay2Win as degrees of advantages are only available to those that pay for it.

The flaws behind looking at hardpoints and claiming that Crit Space keeps it from pay2win is that not all hardpoints are created equal and Crit space isn't the limiting factor for everything. Yes, putting on an extreme of high heat energy weapons makes it impossible to have enough double heatsinks due to crit space. But am I wrong to remember that normal heatsinks don't take crits? Am I wrong to remember that heat management is an important skill since most effective mech designs don't run perfectly at 0 heat? Am I wrong to remember that the game doesn't boil down to slug fests firing your weapons as fast as you can constantly?

I remember your examples and they were chosen extremes using heat as the measure with only considering neutral heat builds. You even went as far to compare 0 heat at standstill on the Free mech to the 0 heat at RUNNING on the Premium mech, then claiming that the Pay2Win mech cannot be built because of crit limits.

Hardpoints aren't about quantity, they are about quality. The amount of crits in that section are shared among all hardpoints in that section. Moving hardpoints from one section to another changes the value of those hardpoints as well as the hardpoints that are in both sections being affected. Ballistic hardpoints tend to have the 1st hardpoint in a section worth more than a 2nd as ballistic weapons tend to be heavily limited by their crit and tonnage requirements. On the flip side, the 2nd hardpoint tends to be worth more than the first for both missile and energy hardpoints as those weapons tend to be light on crit and tonnage usage.

It's not how many hardpoints that make different hardpoint layouts pay2win, it's what you can do with them. Being able to optimize a build differently means being able to squeeze out tonnes and crits different ways, ways that can have a different impact on playstyles. Locking the advantage of being able to play those layouts to premium players only is pay2win as the choices made in the mechlab have a direct impact on gameplay, it creates advantages and disadvantages. Since equal teams win or lose by the thinnest of margins this will tilt the scale in favor of those that pay when facing those that do not.


Uhhh no. Your logic simply doesn't mesh. A hard point is a hard point is a hard point. No matter what the weight class is, that hard point is equally capable since a hard point itself has no bearing on what tonnage is placed into it. Moving a hard point from left to right torso doesn't do anything. All it does is change how those hard points are used.

Let's go with your example:

A jenner with 2 energy hard points on each arm could theoretically fit /4 ER PPCS/ in it's arms. So it doesn't matter if a mech has 4 in each arm. What matters is available tonnage and crit spaces (Along with heat and ammo needs of course).

Lets say you have a stock jenner with 2 energy hard points per arm, and one with 4 energy points per arm. All things being equal they both have 12 tons of weight left for weapons. The mech with 4 in each arm loads up with 8 medium lasers and 4 additional double heat sinks. The mech with 2 energy hard points takes 2 Medium Lasers in each arm while relying on the stock 10 double heat sinks. It also takes an LRM-15 in the missile hard point and 1 ton of ammo

8 medium lasers is a potential 40 damage at 24 heat which is accounted for. 4 medium lasers and LRM-15 is only 35 damage potential but I think everyone can agree that the LRM-15 allows for a lot more versatility than nothing but medium lasers and is a credible threat since a Jenner can keep ranges extended.

It's a playstyle difference, and that's it. That's also comparing the most efficient laser weapon in the game vs a mixed spread of weapons. It all comes down to who uses their choice of layout better, thus skill 2 win, not pay 2 win.

#145 Mister Dubis

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 08:50 PM

View PostOutlaw2, on 23 May 2012 - 07:39 AM, said:

If thats the case, then they should really come out and clear this up. They should plainly say " hey folks, its just different skin plus a c-bill booster. "On-par" is rather vague and can be interpreted either way. And if you want context, he said it will be on-par with OTHER variants...indicating founder mechs are their own variant.


i dont know about you, but 'on-par' is very clear. yes he mechs may be their own variants but think of it this way, a large laser is a large laser even if its on an atlas or on a jenner. so all the difference that may be is possibly the loadout. money doesnt buy skill. so if you buy the founders package (like i will) then all that gets me is a mech and my skill with it. so if i suck then someone who doesnt pay kicks my butt then they obviously have more skill than me so gratz on them. Its like in WoT, people with the tanks you have to pay for (type 59, Lowe) doesnt mean they will beat me, infact i beat them more often then not.

#146 CW Grayson

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:30 PM

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 31 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:


Uhhh no. Your logic simply doesn't mesh. A hard point is a hard point is a hard point. No matter what the weight class is, that hard point is equally capable since a hard point itself has no bearing on what tonnage is placed into it. Moving a hard point from left to right torso doesn't do anything. All it does is change how those hard points are used.

Let's go with your example:

A jenner with 2 energy hard points on each arm could theoretically fit /4 ER PPCS/ in it's arms. So it doesn't matter if a mech has 4 in each arm. What matters is available tonnage and crit spaces (Along with heat and ammo needs of course).


Actually his logic fits because bigger weapons need more than 1 hardpoint, see the official topic about mechlab.
To make it simple, let's say you have a mech with 1 ballistic hardpoint each on a side torso. Normally you can fit in a small or (maybe) medium cannon in each slot then.
"Special" pay-mech has both hardpoints in one torso, there goes in an AC20 or Gauss for example.

#147 PANZERBUNNY

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:34 PM

I can see these mechs having different weapon hardpoints, so they could end up being very sought after. (Unless they are identical in every way except look.)

#148 Bullseye69

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 06:48 PM

View PostTyra, on 30 May 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:


I want to strap speakers to the torso and blare Elvis Presley.



No that been done Canon Her name Was Rhonda Snord, Snord Irregulars and she piloted a Highlander and use to go in to battle to Elvis Presley toons I think it was. Been a while since I read that source book.

Here a direct quote from Sarna Battletech site.


Rhonda Snord piloted a Highlander battlemech for most of her career, and was known to play Elvis Presley music over its external speakers. Earlier in her career, she piloted a Shadow Hawk

Edited by bullseye69, 07 June 2012 - 06:49 PM.


#149 GrimFist

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:06 PM

If you read the thread that was posted.

0.5 percent better in all things. So you shoot just a little better, you move just a little faster, all of this seems to be within them a margin of error which makes me think the elite mechs may not be worth real dollars.

1/2 of 1 percent seems weak to me. 2.5 - 5 percent better speed for example is significant, is that to much? 0.5 percent seems to falls with the range of having no impact.

I'll be curious to see what the packages offer and what the factors really influence enhanced mech performance outside of me and my mouse/joystick. , I'll reserve judgment and my wallet until I see somthing tangible that shows ROI.

I played the WOT beta, had 2 tier 10's and 2 tier 9's. I still play WOT, it's not perfect but they tweak things. I've spent probably $150 dollars since it came out to purchase premimum memberships, convert xp to go after other tanks and so on. I stay away from gold rounds and such and I find WOT a fun tank shooter. Even more so with the new puter, 100 plus frames a second is nice.

In any event I hope to see real details about the founders pack. It's the differance of me signing up for the 30 dollar one or the 60. I'll give you 30 bucks no questions asked. I like the tidbits you have tempted me with. For 60 bucks I want something of value.

#150 DocBach

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 07:27 PM

Hey Grimfist can you give me $30? I need it for something.

#151 SweetJackal

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:03 PM

View PostCW Grayson, on 07 June 2012 - 06:30 PM, said:


Actually his logic fits because bigger weapons need more than 1 hardpoint, see the official topic about mechlab.
To make it simple, let's say you have a mech with 1 ballistic hardpoint each on a side torso. Normally you can fit in a small or (maybe) medium cannon in each slot then.
"Special" pay-mech has both hardpoints in one torso, there goes in an AC20 or Gauss for example.


The logic fits because any weapon will always use one hardpoint of it's type yet all hardpoints in a location use the same crit pool for that location.

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 31 May 2012 - 08:32 PM, said:


Uhhh no. Your logic simply doesn't mesh. A hard point is a hard point is a hard point. No matter what the weight class is, that hard point is equally capable since a hard point itself has no bearing on what tonnage is placed into it. Moving a hard point from left to right torso doesn't do anything. All it does is change how those hard points are used.

Let's go with your example:

A jenner with 2 energy hard points on each arm could theoretically fit /4 ER PPCS/ in it's arms. So it doesn't matter if a mech has 4 in each arm. What matters is available tonnage and crit spaces (Along with heat and ammo needs of course).

Lets say you have a stock jenner with 2 energy hard points per arm, and one with 4 energy points per arm. All things being equal they both have 12 tons of weight left for weapons. The mech with 4 in each arm loads up with 8 medium lasers and 4 additional double heat sinks. The mech with 2 energy hard points takes 2 Medium Lasers in each arm while relying on the stock 10 double heat sinks. It also takes an LRM-15 in the missile hard point and 1 ton of ammo

8 medium lasers is a potential 40 damage at 24 heat which is accounted for. 4 medium lasers and LRM-15 is only 35 damage potential but I think everyone can agree that the LRM-15 allows for a lot more versatility than nothing but medium lasers and is a credible threat since a Jenner can keep ranges extended.

It's a playstyle difference, and that's it. That's also comparing the most efficient laser weapon in the game vs a mixed spread of weapons. It all comes down to who uses their choice of layout better, thus skill 2 win, not pay 2 win.


No, here is why you are flat out wrong. A hardpoint isn't equal to any other hardpoint. A hardpoint isn't just a hardpoint. Hardpoints are limiters to the maximum number of weapons of that type that can fit in a location. Crits are a limiter to the maximum number of weapons or equipment used in a location.

Your example of 4 PPCs is null as it is playing to an extreme, you are taking away weapons from the build and completely changing it in a way that really isn't possible without major sacrifices to the Jenner to make it work. Yet, keeping those 4 MLas and adding 2 more LLas can be done with minimal tweaks, optimizing the build, biggest loss is the SRM4 but the Jenner gets the ability to reach out and touch people. It runs hotter but gives a long range option to the Mech without really hurting it's short range game or it's mobility or armor. Hardpoints are the only limiter to that, if 2 are in each arm then it isn't possible, a Premium Only mech with 3 in each arm makes this build possible.

Difference between this variant and your LRM-15 freebie stock Jenner is that the Premium one has more reliable damage at range that can also affect the short game. It chooses to require more skill in heat management to not haev as much wasted tonnage if it comes across a scout or scout hunter on it's own. And it also gives a last ditch option of just alpha striking into shutdown while not having to worry about ammo explosions at all. So it plays to a different playstyle, but rewards a higher skill ceiling for a certain skill set that isn't given as an option to a Free player. Because of this, two players that are exactly the same in skill and playstyle with the only difference between them being a Premium mech being played by one and not the other leaves the Premium player at an advantage as he can better build to his skill set.

Moving a Ballistic Hardpoint (BH) from the Atlas Right Torso to the left means that it has 1 BH in RT and 1 BH in LT. This means that it can fit 2 Gauss Rifles, or 2 AC-20s or 2 AC-10s when it wouldn't be possible before because of crit space. If both Hardpoints are in the RT then the RT doesn't have enough crits for two ballistic weapons of AC-10 or greater as anything put into the RT needs crit space in the RT to be open.

This is why ALL HARDPOINTS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

So, when you have more than one Ballistic Hardpoint in a location that second Ballistic hardpoint has less overall value as it cannot support the larger ballistic weapons even if the Tonnage is freed up on the mech because of the limits of crits to location. If you instead have that second ballistic hardpoint in another location that hardpoint is now not limited by what is put into the first.

So how is the second and beyond Energy and Missile Hardpoints worth more than the first? Because Energy and Missile weapons are light on critical usage and easy to boat because of that. Hardpoints becomes the limiting factors for these weapons. If you have 1 energy hardpoint (EH) in the LT on Mystery-Alphastrike Mk1, you can fit any one energy weapon. If you have 3 EH in the LT, you can generally fit any 3 energy weapons and this continues on until all crit spaces are used in that location. This means you can either get more punch to the salvo or more flexibility by mixing and matching long and short range weapons. Same is generally true of Missile Hardpoints. In both cases you generally want to have them grouped up into the same location until that location's crits are used as it means you can better protect that area with armor optimizing. If you have 3 EH in the LT instead of having 2 EH in the LT and 1 EH in the LA then you can lower the armor on the LA to raise the armor on the LT, getting better overall protection for what is important on the same tonnage of armor.

Energy Hardpoints and Missile Hardpoints are more valuable when grouped into single locations rather than being spread out because they aren't limited by crit usage in a single location to the same extreme that ballistic weapons are. Having them in a single location means that it becomes easier to protect all of them and have them working longer through the fight, not just by armor optimizing but also positioning and facing to limit the damage to that location.

Ballistic Hardpoints are more valuable spread out over the mech instead of being in a single location as ballistic weapons are heavily limited by the number of crits in a location. If two BH are in a single location it becomes impossible to mount the larger ballistic weapons in both of those hardpoints because of the limited number of crits in that location, a restriction not imposed on Energy and Missile hardpoints.

And the value of hardpoints isn't just if they are spread out or grouped but also on their location on the mech. This is because of factors like Torso Twist and how far the arms can move beyond it.

For example, the Atlas has a very narrow torso twist, there is a narrow angle that is the field of fire for the Torso mounted weapons. It is his arm mounted weapons that are best at defending him as they can reach farther beyond. This is shown in both screenshots and footage of the game, though is always subject to change. This means that those Arm EH are best served with MLas or LLas as PPCs have a minimum range and will impact the mech's ability to use it's arm mounted weapons to defend itself.

By the same measure, a narrow torso twist has less of an impact on long range weapons like LRMs as the amount of area between the edges of the field of fire increases the further away you aim. This means that weapons that have a minimum range have less of a negative impact on the mech's ability as a whole, as the narrow Torso Twist does limit the effectiveness of short ranged weapons affected by it.

This means that in order to make use of the Atlas' AC20 mounted to the RT you need to have good positioning on your target while in close range. If you are caught in close range outside of that ideal position the weapon has virtually no impact as you cannot bring it to bear on the target. If the AC20 was instead a Gauss Rifle it would actually improve the mech overall, giving up a bit of strength when in it's perfect position for close range for a lot more overall use of the BH by making it better at long range and therefore easier to get ideal positioning on targets with.

Yet, if that AC20 was mounted in the arm instead it would provide a greater boon to the Atlas, making it a self defense weapon rather requiring better positioning.

To compare, a Hunchback has a much wider Torso Twist so it is better able to bring it's AC20 to bear on a target as it doesn't need the same level of good positioning. This is an example as to how the value of the Hardpoints change, because different factors affect them, what they can fit into them and the builds they allow can be drastically different because of simple and small changes.

Changing hardpoints or having unique hardpoint layouts can have a drastic impact on the gameplay. Locking this change to being a Premium only option is Pay To Win. You don't have to use every last hardpoint to have hardpoints be Pay To Win, only do more with what you have and get a better impact on gameplay.

#152 Reported for Inappropriate Name

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:13 PM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 22 May 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

They have custom paint and custom cosmetic modeling differences.

They have a C-bill earning bonus.

Nowhere does it say they have any improved abilities/statistics.


this.

people should be paying for the status that being visually unique brings, as well as whatever non performance based changes the mods would like to bestow, whether it be cbill bonuses or ppc's that shoot purple dubstep beams of death

i'd honestly have no problem paying to rice out my mechs as long as it didn't get too ridiculous, but with that said I'd gladly welcome a pimp hat for my atlas

Edited by Battlecruiser, 07 June 2012 - 08:14 PM.


#153 Xantars

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:25 PM

your Elite mech will come equiped with a giant pink tutu to make it cooler. A giant pink with purple pokadot parasail to ward off missle attacks, and giant blue swade shoes to make you go faster. :ph34r:

Edited by Xantars, 07 June 2012 - 08:25 PM.


#154 OcO

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Posted 07 June 2012 - 08:52 PM

View PostSuckyJack, on 07 June 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:


The logic fits because any weapon will always use one hardpoint of it's type yet all hardpoints in a location use the same crit pool for that location.


No, here is why you are flat out wrong. A hardpoint isn't equal to any other hardpoint. A hardpoint isn't just a hardpoint. Hardpoints are limiters to the maximum number of weapons of that type that can fit in a location. Crits are a limiter to the maximum number of weapons or equipment used in a location.

Your example of 4 PPCs is null as it is playing to an extreme, you are taking away weapons from the build and completely changing it in a way that really isn't possible without major sacrifices to the Jenner to make it work. Yet, keeping those 4 MLas and adding 2 more LLas can be done with minimal tweaks, optimizing the build, biggest loss is the SRM4 but the Jenner gets the ability to reach out and touch people. It runs hotter but gives a long range option to the Mech without really hurting it's short range game or it's mobility or armor. Hardpoints are the only limiter to that, if 2 are in each arm then it isn't possible, a Premium Only mech with 3 in each arm makes this build possible.

Difference between this variant and your LRM-15 freebie stock Jenner is that the Premium one has more reliable damage at range that can also affect the short game. It chooses to require more skill in heat management to not haev as much wasted tonnage if it comes across a scout or scout hunter on it's own. And it also gives a last ditch option of just alpha striking into shutdown while not having to worry about ammo explosions at all. So it plays to a different playstyle, but rewards a higher skill ceiling for a certain skill set that isn't given as an option to a Free player. Because of this, two players that are exactly the same in skill and playstyle with the only difference between them being a Premium mech being played by one and not the other leaves the Premium player at an advantage as he can better build to his skill set.

Moving a Ballistic Hardpoint (BH) from the Atlas Right Torso to the left means that it has 1 BH in RT and 1 BH in LT. This means that it can fit 2 Gauss Rifles, or 2 AC-20s or 2 AC-10s when it wouldn't be possible before because of crit space. If both Hardpoints are in the RT then the RT doesn't have enough crits for two ballistic weapons of AC-10 or greater as anything put into the RT needs crit space in the RT to be open.

This is why ALL HARDPOINTS ARE NOT CREATED EQUAL!

So, when you have more than one Ballistic Hardpoint in a location that second Ballistic hardpoint has less overall value as it cannot support the larger ballistic weapons even if the Tonnage is freed up on the mech because of the limits of crits to location. If you instead have that second ballistic hardpoint in another location that hardpoint is now not limited by what is put into the first.

So how is the second and beyond Energy and Missile Hardpoints worth more than the first? Because Energy and Missile weapons are light on critical usage and easy to boat because of that. Hardpoints becomes the limiting factors for these weapons. If you have 1 energy hardpoint (EH) in the LT on Mystery-Alphastrike Mk1, you can fit any one energy weapon. If you have 3 EH in the LT, you can generally fit any 3 energy weapons and this continues on until all crit spaces are used in that location. This means you can either get more punch to the salvo or more flexibility by mixing and matching long and short range weapons. Same is generally true of Missile Hardpoints. In both cases you generally want to have them grouped up into the same location until that location's crits are used as it means you can better protect that area with armor optimizing. If you have 3 EH in the LT instead of having 2 EH in the LT and 1 EH in the LA then you can lower the armor on the LA to raise the armor on the LT, getting better overall protection for what is important on the same tonnage of armor.

Energy Hardpoints and Missile Hardpoints are more valuable when grouped into single locations rather than being spread out because they aren't limited by crit usage in a single location to the same extreme that ballistic weapons are. Having them in a single location means that it becomes easier to protect all of them and have them working longer through the fight, not just by armor optimizing but also positioning and facing to limit the damage to that location.

Ballistic Hardpoints are more valuable spread out over the mech instead of being in a single location as ballistic weapons are heavily limited by the number of crits in a location. If two BH are in a single location it becomes impossible to mount the larger ballistic weapons in both of those hardpoints because of the limited number of crits in that location, a restriction not imposed on Energy and Missile hardpoints.

And the value of hardpoints isn't just if they are spread out or grouped but also on their location on the mech. This is because of factors like Torso Twist and how far the arms can move beyond it.

For example, the Atlas has a very narrow torso twist, there is a narrow angle that is the field of fire for the Torso mounted weapons. It is his arm mounted weapons that are best at defending him as they can reach farther beyond. This is shown in both screenshots and footage of the game, though is always subject to change. This means that those Arm EH are best served with MLas or LLas as PPCs have a minimum range and will impact the mech's ability to use it's arm mounted weapons to defend itself.

By the same measure, a narrow torso twist has less of an impact on long range weapons like LRMs as the amount of area between the edges of the field of fire increases the further away you aim. This means that weapons that have a minimum range have less of a negative impact on the mech's ability as a whole, as the narrow Torso Twist does limit the effectiveness of short ranged weapons affected by it.

This means that in order to make use of the Atlas' AC20 mounted to the RT you need to have good positioning on your target while in close range. If you are caught in close range outside of that ideal position the weapon has virtually no impact as you cannot bring it to bear on the target. If the AC20 was instead a Gauss Rifle it would actually improve the mech overall, giving up a bit of strength when in it's perfect position for close range for a lot more overall use of the BH by making it better at long range and therefore easier to get ideal positioning on targets with.

Yet, if that AC20 was mounted in the arm instead it would provide a greater boon to the Atlas, making it a self defense weapon rather requiring better positioning.

To compare, a Hunchback has a much wider Torso Twist so it is better able to bring it's AC20 to bear on a target as it doesn't need the same level of good positioning. This is an example as to how the value of the Hardpoints change, because different factors affect them, what they can fit into them and the builds they allow can be drastically different because of simple and small changes.

Changing hardpoints or having unique hardpoint layouts can have a drastic impact on the gameplay. Locking this change to being a Premium only option is Pay To Win. You don't have to use every last hardpoint to have hardpoints be Pay To Win, only do more with what you have and get a better impact on gameplay.



Very well said sir! I said the same thing in some thread(maybe even this one, I'm not gonna go look it up) but not in as much detail. IMO if a mech can only be bought will real money and offers a hard point layout not otherwise available it is P2W.

#155 Draco Argentum

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 12:00 AM

View PostOcO, on 07 June 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:



Very well said sir! I said the same thing in some thread(maybe even this one, I'm not gonna go look it up) but not in as much detail. IMO if a mech can only be bought will real money and offers a hard point layout not otherwise available it is P2W.



Even the same hardpoint layout could be P2W if the hit box was different enough. The size and accessibility of the head and CT is very important, modify those and you have P2W or P2L.

#156 CCC Dober

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 04:00 AM

I'm with the guys that ask Garth to clarify what he wrote. If it turns out to be a lack of coffee at the time of the post, no damage done, all good. That's one hell of a drug, I can sympathise with that.

However, should the initial advertisement not fit with the current concept, then it is misleading and will cause neg rep sooner or later. My humble advise would be to stick with your advertisement, as it was and still is the most promising and easy to manage solution. It also helps to maintain credibility and peace of mind. Thanks in advance.

Edited by CCC Dober, 08 June 2012 - 04:01 AM.


#157 Sassori

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:22 AM

View PostSuckyJack, on 07 June 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:


<SNIP>

Changing hardpoints or having unique hardpoint layouts can have a drastic impact on the gameplay. Locking this change to being a Premium only option is Pay To Win. You don't have to use every last hardpoint to have hardpoints be Pay To Win, only do more with what you have and get a better impact on gameplay.


You are continually and completely failing to miss my entire point.

Does every mech have enough hard points to make efficient use of their tonnage? Yes. They do.

Every mech has enough hard points to make a viable mech that is worth playing on the battle field. Period.

Find me a /single/ mech that's initial hard point layout CANNOT be used to make a solid mech using the best tech the IS has available.

Please.

Try.

Just one.

Until you do then Hard Points do /NOT MATTER/ except for play style differences. Your humongous walls of text do not change that simple fact, and that is why Hard Points are not pay to win.

The fact that some people cannot see how even a little thing like /HEAT SINKS TAKING CRITICAL SPACE/ is a /massive/ balancing factor is beyond me.

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Posted 08 June 2012 - 09:29 AM

View PostGarth Erlam, on 22 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

These will not be vastly superior death machines - they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better.


I don't see how this was confusing in any way. It's an external cosmetic change with a bonus to earning money. There are no different hard points ( according to this). Anything else is speculation.





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