157 replies to this topic

[JP Josh]

i hope they implement a way we can get these mechs without real money like they did with star trek online.

itle just take forever.

however i really do hope they dont fallow star trek onlines way of realeasing all content after level 30 as premium only

[Belisarius1]

Vieric, on 23 May 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

It is true, I have nothing but respect for the devs and wish to trust them on this, but i have seen even the most intelligent creators fall prey to underhanded and outright bad payment tactics. Often, I don't think it is intentional, however for whatever reason I have always seen it to be a slippery slope, once these things start they snowball at alarming speeds.

As stated before, I like these guys, i want to trust them, but they need to come over here and clear out the panic as quickly as they can, because silence only makes some of us worry more.

EDIT : Worth noting, that I say these things not to anger others, but to express legitimate concern felt by myself and others, to anyone reading, please bear this in mind.

Well said. That sums up my position as well.

I tend to leave off the "I think PGI are doing an amazing job, but..." bit, because if I can't consider it implied by now I'll have to pretty much put it in my sig.

Edited by Belisarius†, 23 May 2012 - 07:08 PM.

[Lycan]

Geist Null, on 22 May 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

but it has stripes, they make everything faster..

And thinner . . .

[Zynk]

Garth Erlam, on 22 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

These will not be vastly superior death machines - they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better.

"they will be on par with other variants"

Does this mean that the Mech you pick will be a locked variant of that type i.e.

Atlas AS7-D
Armament
1xAutocannon/20
1xLRM-20
1xSRM-6
4xMedium Lasers

I have an "Elite" Atlas but can never change out the AC20 for a Gauss Rifle or XL Engine, etc?

[Cattra Kell]

Zynk, on 27 May 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

"they will be on par with other variants"

Does this mean that the Mech you pick will be a locked variant of that type i.e.

Atlas AS7-D
Armament
1xAutocannon/20
1xLRM-20
1xSRM-6
4xMedium Lasers

I have an "Elite" Atlas but can never change out the AC20 for a Gauss Rifle or XL Engine, etc?

It does not say nor suggest this at all.
If anything it will share all the common slots of said variant.

Edited by Cattra Kell, 27 May 2012 - 02:33 PM.

[Zynk]

Cattra Kell, on 27 May 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

It does not say nor suggest this at all.
If anything it will share all the common slots of said variant.

It does to me.

"they will be on par with other variants"

What variant do we get?

Can it be Mod'd?

[Agent KI7KO]

That basically implies that the slots will be changed around a little.

It's difficult to make something completely imbalanced in BattleTech just by changing a Ballistics Slot (missiles only) into an Omni slot (all weapons). Sure, you might be surprised the mech is firing Lasers at you instead of SRMs, but for what it's worth it won't be carrying anything more powerful than what was in that slot previously.

There's only so much you can change between variants.


...now if they brought in IIC variants (that tend to come with very specific equipment), then I got nothing.

Edited by Afoxi, 27 May 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Cerlin]

I will buy the elite pack and I hope it is like the dev said "different but not better." I want more variety in the game, so I am not complaining. If anyone has bothered to watch the dev interviews they went out of their way to clarify this point. IRL money will basically get you stuff faster, but it is not things free to play people cannot get. I feel that this is fair. I am one of those players that loves games, but has much more money than time.

Edit: My edit is only that for a first cash injection support pack i dont see why they shouldnt give the people who support the game unique mechs. I just hope they are not Overpowered.

Edited by Cerlin, 27 May 2012 - 02:58 PM.

[Cattra Kell]

Zynk, on 27 May 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

It does to me.

"they will be on par with other variants"

What variant do we get?

Can it be Mod'd?

They have already said that it will have a hardpoint system like a mix of the tabletop / MW4 / MW3 all thrown in a blender. I suggest you watch this.

So far the variants confirmed can be found at this MechSpec's page. As for the actual hardpoints available per variant, that is unknown. As for the Founders battlemech (since there is no "elite" mechs other then Max'd EXP ones, which any player can get) it will be a variant of unknown type, but the weapons should not [and high chances will not] be locked and as such you can modify as you wish as long as you stay within the limits of the hardpoints (as its going to be with every other battlemech)

Edited by Cattra Kell, 27 May 2012 - 03:06 PM.

[Zynk]

Cattra Kell, on 27 May 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

They have already said that it will have a hardpoint system like a mix of the tabletop / MW4 / MW3 all thrown in a blender. I suggest you watch this.

So far the variants confirmed can be found at this MechSpec's page. As for the actual hardpoints available per variant, that is unknown. As for the Founders battlemech (since there is no "elite" mechs other then Max'd EXP ones, which any player can get) it will be a variant of unknown type, but the weapons should not [and high chances will not] be locked and as such you can modify as you wish as long as you stay within the limits of the hardpoints.

You are assuming they are modifiable as the normal progression of Mech's are.

Because Elite Mech's does not mean it will be modifiable.

"they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better."

Why will it be Different?

Edited by Zynk, 27 May 2012 - 04:52 PM.

[Shiinore]

Zynk, on 27 May 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

You are assuming they are modifiable as the normal progression of Mech's are.

Because Elite Mech's does not mean it will be modifiable.

"they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better."

Why will it beDifferent?

You're not getting a variant, you're getting a special chassis, which allows you to modify it to your heart's content. It has the same features and hardpoints as a normal chassis, but there are two distinct differences:
1) Cosmetics
2) You get a slight C-Bill boost for every match you play in your Founder's Mech.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Well... that "Special Chassis" is just another variant of the Chassis they have already modeled into the game.

A "special Chassis" that's not just a variant would have to be either a different Mech entirely, OR it could be an artistic redesign of the base Chassis as if Flying Debis decided to go a different way with the Mech appearance from the beginning design stages...

Your Elite Founders' Variant will be unique to a degree, and it will come with a small in-game C-Bill boost, but it's not a Special "Chassis;" it's a special Variant. And even then, it might just be a canon variant... sure, you can MechLab the snot out of it, and it might grant you a more liberal Mechlab experience, but an Atlas is an Atlas.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 27 May 2012 - 03:31 PM.

[Gozer]

Okay so let me see if I'm with the worriers here. (You're not complainers you have a valid concern)

Say we take the FOUNDERS Hunchback vs a Standard Hunchback. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hunchback

Okay so for discussions sake (THESE ARE NOT REAL INFO JUST GUESSES) lets say we get this set-up
Standard Hunchback
AC20
2 medium lasers
1 small laser
(This is the HBK-4G shown in the sidebar I'm sure someone already knows the default Hunchback variant. )

Founders Hunchback
AC10
4 Medium lasers
(This is the HBK-4H as shown in the varient listings)

Now of course the base load-out is meaning-less since we all want to know hardpoints and such. So lets say it goes like this: (REMEMBER making this stuff up, especially since i can't remember if the medium lasers are in the arms or not)

Standard Hunchback
2 Ballistic in Right Torso
2 Laser in Left/Right Arm and center torso
1 Laser in Head
Total Ballistic: 2
Total Laser: 7

Founder Hunchback
2 Ballistic in Right Torso
2 Laser in Left torso and center torso
1 laser in Left/right arm and head.
Total Ballistic: 2
Total Laser: 7

IF it was like that would it be a "game breaker" for you? If so would these changes help:

1. Founder mechs can't use mechlab
2. OR The HBK-4H has the exact same hardpoints as the founder mech and is availble in game through normal system of purchase/earning. (I.e. xp and c-bills)

Do either of those ease your problems with these variants?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Gozer, on 27 May 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

Do either of those ease your problems with these variants?

The only people concerned with the Founders Variants are people who are not aware that the game developers have stated you cannot buy Tactically-Superior hardware with cash.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 27 May 2012 - 03:33 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

Zynk, on 27 May 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

"they will be on par with other variants"

Does this mean that the Mech you pick will be a locked variant of that type i.e.

Atlas AS7-D
Armament
1xAutocannon/20
1xLRM-20
1xSRM-6
4xMedium Lasers

I have an "Elite" Atlas but can never change out the AC20 for a Gauss Rifle or XL Engine, etc?

If you want to change out the AC/20 for a Gauss, then do so. All the founder mech give us extra are a different SKIN on the mech and a xp boost as long as you play in that mech. The AC/20 slot on ANY atlas or any mech for that matter can house a Gauss in place of the AC as they are both ballistic weapons. Youll just have to make sure your mech can hold the weight is all.

[Zynk]

Garth Erlam, on 22 May 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

These will not be vastly superior death machines - they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better.

Shiinore, on 27 May 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

You're not getting a variant, you're getting a special chassis, which allows you to modify it to your heart's content. It has the same features and hardpoints as a normal chassis, but there are two distinct differences:
1) Cosmetics
2) You get a slight C-Bill boost for every match you play in your Founder's Mech.

You are also assuming that the only difference is cosmetics and C-bill boost.

Garth Erlam says "These will not be vastly superior death machines - they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better."

So how will they be different.

I play WoT which MWO will be like(Dev's words not mine).

I have a LÖWE a elite (gold) tir 8 heavy tank which is on par with other tier 8's but can not be upgraded no matter how much exp I get on it but I do make more credits on it then my other tier 8's.

So back to my question is it a fixed variant that will become obsolete when the clans show up?

That question will determine which Mech (Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult or Atlas) I pick.

[Gozer]

Zynk, on 27 May 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

You are also assuming that the only difference is cosmetics and C-bill boost.

Garth Erlam says "These will not be vastly superior death machines - they will be on par with other variants; they are merely different not better."

So how will they be different.

I play WoT which MWO will be like(Dev's words not mine).

I have a LÖWE a elite (gold) tir 8 heavy tank which is on par with other tier 8's but can not be upgraded no matter how much exp I get on it but I do make more credits on it then my other tier 8's.

So back to my question is it a fixed variant that will become obsolete when the clans show up?

That question will determine which Mech (Jenner, Hunchback, Catapult or Atlas) I pick.

So as I asked above, if the answer is YES is it a game breaker or just changes which mech you pick?

[Zynk]

Gozer, on 27 May 2012 - 04:00 PM, said:

So as I asked above, if the answer is YES is it a game breaker or just changes which mech you pick?

It will effect which Mech I pick but yes I will be dropping the $60 on the ELITE Founder's Package.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Zynk, on 27 May 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

I play WoT which MWO will be like(Dev's words not mine).

THOSE ARE YOUR WORDS, AND YOUR WORDS, ALONE.

[SweetJackal]

Prosperity Park, on 27 May 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

The only people concerned with the Founders Variants are people who are not aware that the game developers have stated you cannot buy Tactically-Superior hardware with cash.

Sorry, I am concerned and I am aware that they are trying to avoid Pay2Win entirely. The problem with that statement is that superior means flat out better while superior options being cash only isn't the only way to have the game Pay2Win.

If it offers a completely unique hardpoint layout that cannot be earned in game by C-Bills alone then it is one of two cases. Either the mech is completely inferior (Has less hardpoints in everything so less can be done with it) or it is something that can be built in a different way. The latter is the problem because the choices made by the player in the mechlab have an impact on the gameplay itself and different builds play to different strengths and weaknesses. This is flexibility and a game does become Pay2Win when certain degrees or options of that flexibility are only available to players that pay real money.

Hardpoints are the true limiting factor behind Energy and Missile weapons because of their low crit and tonnage usage. Ballistic hardpoints have less value compared to the other two as ballistic weapons are much more limited due to high crit and tonnage usage. Because of this even just changing the location of existing hardpoints can allow drastically different builds. All of this is an advantage.

I've said this countless times. When two teams of equals meet on the field it is the thinnest of margins that victory is decided by. If an advantage is only open to those that pay then that advantage can be the deciding factor. This is why I'm opposed to the Founders Mechs from having any gameplay differences at all compared to what people will be able to earn in game at launch. If these founders mechs are unique in hardpoints then the game is going down a path I do not want to follow.

I am a munchkin, I analyze and optimize to a sometimes silly degree. But if a Founders Mech provides me an edge I otherwise would never get by optimizion in any direction then it is a Pay2Win situation. It would be really nice to get more information on exactly what these founders mechs will be, if they would be unique or if the hardpoint layout would be a carbon copy of a mech or variant already in the game but up till now they have been tight lipped about it since that one statement.