128 replies to this topic

[Stavinsky Elyas]

Is there any news about the nerf that is supposed to happen on the Streak boats ?

As actually those are starting to ruin the game.

Hard to play when you end up against a pug that has 3 stalkers with 5x ssrm2 each
and 2 catapult with 6x ssrm2 each and you don't have any ECM in the team.

Or even worse some "4 man teams" with a 3x ssrm2 ECM commando scouting for
a team of 1 streak cata (6 ssrm2) and 2 Streak Stalker (2x 5xssrm2)

That's get ridiculous.

Where LRM are 'strong' in a way, but have huge weakness (the 200m minimal range, and
ECM preventing the lock), the Streak boats have almost no troubles, especially
if they are used in a Streak boats team with ECM/ECCM users.

So I really hope something is done fast, as I don't think every player
using those "streak srm" boats are Ultra Elite Clan Mech with some 0/0 gunnery/pilot skills
that could explain how they could even 'think' about interlocking 3+ streak srm missiles.

[Like a Sir]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Is there any news about the nerf that is supposed to happen on the Streak boats ?

As actually those are starting to ruin the game.

Hard to play when you end up against a pug that has 3 stalkers with 5x ssrm2 each
and 2 catapult with 6x ssrm2 each and you don't have any ECM in the team.

Or even worse some "4 man teams" with a 3x ssrm2 ECM commando scouting for
a team of 1 streak cata (6 ssrm2) and 2 Streak Stalker (2x 5xssrm2)

That's get ridiculous.

Where LRM are 'strong' in a way, but have huge weakness (the 200m minimal range, and
ECM preventing the lock), the Streak boats have almost no troubles, especially
if they are used in a Streak boats team with ECM/ECCM users.

So I really hope something is done fast, as I don't think every player
using those "streak srm" boats are Ultra Elite Clan Mech with some 0/0 gunnery/pilot skills
that could explain how they could even 'think' about interlocking 3+ streak srm missiles.

They are already in terrible shape thanks to ecm, and even with tag, you don't have a very big window where you can fire them... If we nerf streak boats any more, next we will want PGI to hire a guy, who goes to your house and punches you in the face, when you equip more then 2 streaks on your mech.

[Stavinsky Elyas]

ECM is not their counter, actually they are abused in ways that are not how the dev have though about them.

In fact the dev clearly stated they are working on a way to prevent the use of more than 2, or that using more than
2 will be very much harder than actually.

If you take the rule of the table top, you have to add +1 for each interlocked missile.

So if you pick a "normal" pilot, with a gunnery of 4, shooting with 6 SSRM, you end up with a starting
difficulty to 'hit' of 4+5= 9, and that's without adding any other bonus/malus.

When you add the distance your target has moved, it can go from 0 to +5 (and more),
and then you add the range (from +0 to +4), and 270m = +4. So it mean that with 2 D6, if you
try to hit at "long range" it's an instant miss. No lock, no shoot. And that's for 2 mech that are
moving at the "fascinating" speed of 0 kph.

So to come back to the dev discussion, it was stated that they are trying to find a way to nerf
the abuse, without killing their use for light mech. But still preventing the use of more than 2
SSRM. And it's why I ask if there is any news.

Actually w0rm, your entry is not constructive, and don't answer my question. So please don't comment
in a useless way on the forum.

Like a Sir, on 21 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

They are already in terrible shape thanks to ecm, and even with tag, you don't have a very big window where you can fire them... If we nerf streak boats any more, next we will want PGI to hire a guy, who goes to your house and punches you in the face, when you equip more then 2 streaks on your mech.

Actually if you are unlucky enough to have 0 ECM in your team, then you are completely dead.

Happened again and again tonight. Over 10 battles with that exact situation.
So no they are not in any 'terrible' state.

I use up to 2 myself, limiting myself to something "reasonable", and I can use them every time
I need them, as I have plenty of situations to use them. But if I want to play the mech I need to
grind, and I end up in a team with 0 ECM, there is no way to stop the abuse.

And it's even more true when you have pugs who specificaly build their team to abuse
the SSRM by coming with 1 or 2 ECM mech (like the commandos) and who can simply
cancel any ECM they have in front, and open the way for their 4 man team to pour
SSRM missiles again and again. And that's not how it is supposed to be.

Edited by Stavinsky Elyas, 21 December 2012 - 04:12 PM.

[w0rm]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Actually w0rm, your entry is not constructive, and don't answer my question. So please don't comment
in a useless way on the forum.

[redacted] Streaks are balanced with ECM now in game. 1 Streak boat hast to team up with at least 1 ECM boat to make sure it can deliver.
If you are not able to handle that kind of combo in a brawl maybe you should try to kill them from far far away?

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

Actually if you are unlucky enough to have 0 ECM in your team, then you are completely dead.

Not the fault of the SSRMS its yours.

Edited by miSs, 21 December 2012 - 04:25 PM.
insults

[Duncan Fisher]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Is there any news about the nerf that is supposed to happen on the Streak boats ?

As actually those are starting to ruin the game.

Hard to play when you end up against a pug that has 3 stalkers with 5x ssrm2 each
and 2 catapult with 6x ssrm2 each and you don't have any ECM in the team.

Or even worse some "4 man teams" with a 3x ssrm2 ECM commando scouting for
a team of 1 streak cata (6 ssrm2) and 2 Streak Stalker (2x 5xssrm2)

That's get ridiculous.

Where LRM are 'strong' in a way, but have huge weakness (the 200m minimal range, and
ECM preventing the lock), the Streak boats have almost no troubles, especially
if they are used in a Streak boats team with ECM/ECCM users.

So I really hope something is done fast, as I don't think every player
using those "streak srm" boats are Ultra Elite Clan Mech with some 0/0 gunnery/pilot skills
that could explain how they could even 'think' about interlocking 3+ streak srm missiles.

ECM was the nerf. Running a streak boat is balanced in a high-risk high-reward sense. Odds are if you run a streakboat, someone on the other team will have ECM and you will be completely useless. If the other team was full of streakboats and your team had no ECM, you were just unlucky. It happens. If you really dislike streakboats, then you should be running ECM yourself, otherwise you have no right to complain.

[GrabbleRus]

[redacted] If they're still a problem for you... than it's not your game

Edited by miSs, 21 December 2012 - 04:27 PM.

[Chillicon]

If you feel it is not balanced - it is maybe because of the implemented stalker. Everbody plays it today. Remember when ecm was released - everybody played ecm-mechs --> no lrms, no streaks! I think this game is very well balanced! While playing streakcat - you are prey for every ecm mech.

[JebusGeist]

I'm not sure that limiting streaks to 2 per mech is really going to help things.

Currently if you are not personally running an ECM there is a significant chance that you will end up in a situation during a battle where you can't obtain a lockon and your SSRMs are a liability (thats a lot of ammo threatening to blow up inside of you and no way to get rid of it). So right now most SSRMS on the battlefield are found on fast moving ECM mechs filling all of their missile hardpoints. You limit that number to 2 and the result will likely be that nearly all SSRMs on the battlefield are in groups of 2 and found on fast moving ECM mechs. That's not a very significant nerf when they normally are running just 3 of them anyways.

[One Medic Army]

If Streaks are nerfed, then ECM should be nerfed, and vice versa.
In fact, I'll wholeheartedly applaud nerfing both.

Edited by One Medic Army, 21 December 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Stavinsky Elyas]

Duncan Fisher, on 21 December 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

ECM was the nerf. Running a streak boat is balanced in a high-risk high-reward sense. Odds are if you run a streakboat, someone on the other team will have ECM and you will be completely useless. If the other team was full of streakboats and your team had no ECM, you were just unlucky. It happens. If you really dislike streakboats, then you should be running ECM yourself, otherwise you have no right to complain.

As stated by the devs the ECM was NOT the nerf. It's one of the equipement we have on the Table top game, and it was supposed to be added since long.

But as so many people are abusing the fact that SSRM are so "overpowered" in the games right now, the dev clearly stated that they are looking for a way to prevent the abuse, but still keep a 1-2 Streak SRM combo usefull for light mechs, and as "support" weapons as they are supposed to be even for some heavier mechs.

A mech is supposed to be a clean balance between Fire power, Speed, Armor and Heat control.

If you get a LRM boat you even get some short range weakness, preventing the use of them under 200m.
And the AMS are taking away a good numbers of missiles, especially if you are moving with others players
having some AMS on their mecha. So the LRM are balanced right now.

But to be honnest, what is the "trouble" for a SSRM boat ?

You can have your full load of weapons (1.5 tons each, that's 4.5 to 9 tons for the weapons.)
Each tons of missiles has 100 missiles. So even if you have 6 launcher. It mean each ton of ammo
mean 8 salvo and some.
Your missiles are not intercepted by the AMS (something that happen in the Tabletop rules).

So what are the weakness of a Streak boat :
Your weapons don't weight much, so you can have them all without troubles. -> no weakness
The needed ammo to hold a whole game mean some 30-40 salvo. That mean 4-5 tons of ammo for a 6x SSRM2 boat.
So you have 9 tons of weapons + 5 tons of ammo, it means 14 tons. On a 65+ tons mecha.
That mean you can have the full Armor capacity, the biggest engine in it to have the top speed.
And having the biggest engine coupled with Double heat sink mean you never heat up. -> no weakness

An ECM user can prevent you from locking him or any other target -> You have speed to over run
the heavier ECM mech, and enough speed to pull the light to your team to have him killed
so "no real weakness". Especially if you play with a 2 man+ team with your own light ECM
user mech. As he will negate the other ECM user, and you kill him in 1-2 shoots. -> so again no
real weakness.

Add the fact that you are not restrained to the "longest range" acquisition, that should be 270m, and loosing
lock if the target move out of the 270m range. So you have a fast mech, with full Armor that can engage
ECM using mech at 180-200m, by just staying out of the ECM range, but still fully in the SSRM range.

By having an ECM streak boat moving with you you have just what needed to prevent even ECM using
mecha from having any protection.

How could anyone try to pretend it's balanced, when in the Table top you can't hope to have such a way to
use them.

Actually streak boats are a plague to the game.



@ JebusGeist
Perhaps you are lucky, because the more I play those day, and being in PUG the
more I see Streak Cata running with Streak Stalker, and having some Streak Commando
opening the way. And you have ways to prevent the ammo to be really dangerous.
Putting them in your legs prevent most of the troubles, as the damage don't transfer up,
and the same is true about your arms. And you don't need that much slots for ammoes.

@all
It's supposed to be a team play game, but if you don't come with a group of 2-4 guys
with each having his role, and having one taking an ECM with you, then you are
completely in the hands of the Match Maker. And having team of 4 peoples coming
with full streaks (and little lasers here and there) boats, you end up with battles
that have a 8-0 result again and again.

Edited by Stavinsky Elyas, 21 December 2012 - 04:46 PM.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

One Medic Army, on 21 December 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

If Streaks are nerfed, then ECM should be nerfed, and vice versa.
In fact, I'll wholeheartedly applaud nerfing both.

Agree. ECM needs some adjusting, but once they do that they are going to have to try and fix streaks. ECM has given the devs a break from having to deal with that particular problem, and that's a bad thing.

Edited by Warrax the Chaos Warrior, 21 December 2012 - 04:44 PM.

[Crazycajun]

Yall making miss have to work today....stop it before she starts flinging snowballs at ur mechs...

[w0rm]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

A mech is supposed to be a clean balance between Fire power, Speed, Armor and Heat control.

Nope thats not how Battletech works. Some mechs are just plain better than others.

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Add the fact that you are not restrained to the "longest range" acquisition, that should be 270m, and loosing
lock if the target move out of the 270m range. So you have a fast mech, with full Armor that can engage
ECM using mech at 180-200m, by just staying out of the ECM range, but still fully in the SSRM range.

lol. You clearly have absolutly no idea what you are talking about. A streakcat goes ~80 kph, a stalker ~62 kph. You can't run away from ECM mechs and you cant stay out of range.

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

How could anyone try to pretend it's balanced, when in the Table top you can't hope to have such a way to use them.

It's not tabletop, it's MWO.

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Actually streak boats are a plague to the game.

Only for people unable or unwilling to adapt.

[Codejack]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 21 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

.

Actually streak boats are a plague to the game.

Yes, you're right; we should all be forced to play YOUR mech.

[Vincent Lynch]

stop it, OP, I can't hear it anymore. I don't even run more than 2 SSRM on my A1 anymore because if you drive a Streakcat you are currently dead meat in 95% of all games. People still driving streakcats risk a lot; too much in my eyes
No ECM on your team? That's bad luck. Currently the fact that it's close to impossible to win without ECM makes me think it's OP, not the fact that it makes SSRM unviable.
Still, so many people run ECM mechs now that I would guesstimate the chance of no ECM on a team on less than 3% currently. So you rant about anti-winning the bad luck lottery ONCE. or perhaps once a day on average if you play a lot.
I can understand why people whined about Streakcats before, but now to see these posts after ECM has been introduced, is beyond my understanding, and frankly, I'm fed up with that.

so shortly put:
Streakcat? any decent heavy or assault will kill it dead, because even 6 SSRM2 do not do that much dps. if you have a light or medium, stay away from it. if your medium is too slow to keep away from a streakcat, you might want to reconsider your build.
Streakstalker? give your friendly neighborhood LRMboat a call.

[Stavinsky Elyas]

w0rm, on 21 December 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

I'm not going to pick appart some "part" of your answer as you like to pick things appart.

Every mech for the Table top need to have some long range weapons, some medium and short range
fire power. On the table top you have to balance the heat build up, the speed, the armor and all.
That's the case also in the online game.

Actually the Streak boats are a plague, and it's not a matter of "adapt of die", it's a matter of having the game
what it is supposed to be, compared to the Table top and more important about what the DEV are saying
it is supposed to be. They said the SSRM boats are OVERPOWERED and that they are looking into it.
So stop trying to sound like you know better than the Dev, as you clearly don't.

And I clearly know what I'm speaking about, as 80kph is more than enough, when linked with Jump jets
to escape if needed, especially when fighting against "non-jumped" equiped Commando and Cicada.
I know enough to have piloted those mech to know that you can escape them with the Jump jets.
And 80kph is more than needed to keep away from an Atlas and stay out it's ECM range, but fully in your
Streak range.

So all in all, the Streak catapult has enough firepower to kill the atlast, without getting in the range
of the ECM, and enough mobility to escape some ECM commando or Raven.

The Streak Stalker don't need that much speed, as he pack a full armor + full speed + a good amount
of laser weapons to complete the Streak boat weapons, and more than enough Heat sink (mostly
double heat sink) to make sure he can defend even if he is stuck in some ECM range.

So much for your "theory" w0rm. I know the table top game, I started playing it when it started,
I have over 23 years of Mechwarrior Tabletop playing. I played to all the Mechwarrior game before,
and one of the constant you was having was that you never had "overpowered" weapons.

Yes some mech are 'better' than others, but not that much. And no weapons in the Table top
have complete advantage over others.
If they do huge damage and don't need ammo, then they do lot of heat, if it's some
strong hitting Autocanon, then you need ammo and it's pretty heavy to load.
If it doesn't make lot of heat, then it has another weakness (the gauss exploding then).
And on the table top the Streak SRM missiles are intercepted by the Anti missiles systems.
And SSRM have all to be locked independantly, making possible that even a mech carrying
6 SSRM would have to roll the dies 6 times to shoot the missiles. And it would be almost impossible
to interlock those 6 missiles.

Another difference, it's that on the tabletop when a light stop right in the back of an heavy,
it expose itself to the potential rear weapons, or a potential kick/punch.
Another thing we don't have in the game.

So yes, there are a lot of difference between the Tabletop and the online game, but
it's also important that the game is close to the tabletop experience, and being
balanced, as sadly enough players are not mature enough or "fair" enough
to keep the game in the spirit of the Battletech Universe.



Edit:

Just a little thing to all the people saying "oh no the SSRM are not overpowered"
the DEV have stated that they ARE OVERPOWERED and that they are looking into it.

And my first post was just a QUESTION to know if any decisions was made about how
they are going to fix it.
So stop saying things about my abilities, or about the fact they are not overpowered.
The facts have been established by the dev themselves, not by me.

Edited by Stavinsky Elyas, 21 December 2012 - 05:24 PM.

[Team Leader]

I just dont see how they've been nerfed at all. A raven will still kill me in 30 seconds with 1 streak 2. They all seem to do major damage to my lights CT every single time... Am I just super extremely bad or unlucky?

[Horned Bull]

ECM was a counter before the nerf. Now the raidboss (6xssrm cat) is back.

[Codejack]

Team Leader, on 21 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I just dont see how they've been nerfed at all. A raven will still kill me in 30 seconds with 1 streak 2. They all seem to do major damage to my lights CT every single time... Am I just super extremely bad or unlucky?

30 second allows 8-9 volleys for 40-45 damage. Even spread across your whole torso, that plus a few laser blasts will do most lights. Torso twisting will help you take some on the arms, otherwise loadout for faster damage.

[Stavinsky Elyas]

And just for information.

All the while writting between my games, the last 4 games I just had had all 2 to 3 Streak boats in them, winning the
game for the other team. All being 3-4 men squads.

So so much for the supposedly "impossible to use" streak boats because of ECM in games.