167 replies to this topic

[SouthernRex]

"Accepted by almost the entire racing community" nice generalization. I assure you that statement has no basis in reality. And no, I wouldn't answer you with rFactor.

Come talk to the big boys that actually work with cars for a living, not just the video games, and you'll get a different opinion than you do on your Playstation.

[Mackman]

What a condescending, douche-tastic post. "This game doesn't meet the very narrow definitions I am making up myself at this very moment, so therefore it isn't a sim and you can't call it that anymore."

What a ****. Do you think the vast majority of the playerbase or the developers care what your personal definition of "sim" is? It's not a "complete" sim, true. It doesn't require a 1,000 page manual. But it's still "more" of a sim than the majority of contemporary mech games.

The vast majority of the people who play this game want to feel like they're piloting a mech... the fun parts of it, at least. And there's nothing wrong with that. I don't want to read a 1,000 page manual. But neither do I want to play Hawken. Most people want the game to retain the same amount of simulation "accuracy" as it has right now, and coming in here like a total douche and saying, "But it's not a sim at all, because a sim is an all-or-nothing thing" contributes literally nothing to the conversation.

[Conure]

SouthernRex, on 26 December 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

"Accepted by almost the entire racing community" nice generalization. I assure you that statement has no basis in reality. And no, I wouldn't answer you with rFactor.

Come talk to the big boys that actually work with cars for a living, not just the video games, and you'll get a different opinion than you do on your Playstation.

I only follow Formula 1 in the real world so if I'm wrong and iRacing isn't the most realistic sim then please let me know what is - I strive for realism in all my sims and would love to hear how to improve my experience without spending thousands of £s on maintaining a Kart.

I have plenty of real world racing experience from my younger years when I did extensive karting, and contrary to what you say I have never owned a playstation. Incase you say 'karting isn't real' pretty much every Formula 1 driver I know of started with karting and it's known as one of the purest forms of racing here in Europe.

So anyway, let me know which piece of software allows me to join "the big boys"?

Edited by Conure, 26 December 2012 - 09:40 AM.

[Conure]

Mackman, on 26 December 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

What a condescending, douche-tastic post. "This game doesn't meet the very narrow definitions I am making up myself at this very moment, so therefore it isn't a sim and you can't call it that anymore."

What a ****. Do you think the vast majority of the playerbase or the developers care what your personal definition of "sim" is? It's not a "complete" sim, true. It doesn't require a 1,000 page manual. But it's still "more" of a sim than the majority of contemporary mech games.

The vast majority of the people who play this game want to feel like they're piloting a mech... the fun parts of it, at least. And there's nothing wrong with that. I don't want to read a 1,000 page manual. But neither do I want to play Hawken. Most people want the game to retain the same amount of simulation "accuracy" as it has right now, and coming in here like a total douche and saying, "But it's not a sim at all, because a sim is an all-or-nothing thing" contributes literally nothing to the conversation.

The people that play Call of Duty want to feel like they're a lone soldier taking on the entire Middle East on their own. Wanting to feel something is realistic doesn't make it so.

You seem to be confused; I'm not talking down to anybody, I'm simply saying that (despite what I've read time and again on these forums) MWO is in no way a simulation.

I note that you have said:

"The vast majority of the people who play this game want to feel like they're piloting a mech... the fun parts of it, at least. And there's nothing wrong with that."

And nor did I say there was - I love to play non sim games. I completely understand why people play this, it's a very fun game. But it's not a simulation, not by a long way.

Edited by Conure, 26 December 2012 - 09:47 AM.

[shadowdragon99]

this looks like a fun Game to play, with all the Sim Not Sim bickering it makes me wonder if it is even worth it to play. i played BattleTech on Paper for years so i was looking forward to trying it here.

[wwiiogre]

It is considered a sim because you sit in the pilot's seat. This is not a sim of the tech who fixes the mech or makes it run. So no need for a manual and a billion different settings. Because the pilot should not and could not really know how it all works, since that is what engineers and techs are for. The pilot merely drives the machine.

As this game is in beta and not even all the control systems are working correctly yet, the game still has more of an arcade feel to it. Once full Hotas is available and functions correctly then the immersion will become more sim like. Currently its not quite there yet, but for a game with less than a year of production cycle to it, I am quite impressed but more importantly I can see it has so much promise.

Chris

[Conure]

shadowdragon99, on 26 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

this looks like a fun Game to play, with all the Sim Not Sim bickering it makes me wonder if it is even worth it to play. i played BattleTech on Paper for years so i was looking forward to trying it here.

It's definitely worth playing - in any game focused around geeky stuff like giant robots you'll get bickering I think. Besides it's free so you have nothing to lose.

[Angus McBeef]

shadowdragon99, on 26 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

with all the Sim Not Sim bickering it makes me wonder if it is even worth it to play.

Just wondering...why would a random forum discussion regarding what constitutes a sim vs non-sim game affect your decision to play MW:O or not? It just struck me as really, really, odd logic and got me curious is all.

[Carnivoris]

It's a simulation of Battletech lore. It's taking the mechs, numbers, and story from established Battletech fiction and putting them into a real-time format rather than the classic turn-based format. That's what it's simulating.

[Jetfire]

Conure, on 26 December 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

I note that you have said:

"The vast majority of the people who play this game want to feel like they're piloting a mech... the fun parts of it, at least. And there's nothing wrong with that."

And nor did I say there was - I love to play non sim games. I completely understand why people play this, it's a very fun game. But it's not a simulation, not by a long way.

Sims have varying degrees of realism and complexity. Realistic Sims are not the only Sims fit to be called sims. This has never been the case. A sim simply has increased complexity for the sake of control and immersion over what could be expected in an arcade or shooter type game.

[shadowdragon99]

it relates to the thought of who i will be Gaming with if they think across the board or if they are focused on the Goal, if the Patch ever loads lol i will try it out.

[CypherHalo]

Mackman, on 26 December 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

The vast majority of the people who play this game want to feel like they're piloting a mech... the fun parts of it, at least. And there's nothing wrong with that. I don't want to read a 1,000 page manual. But neither do I want to play Hawken. Most people want the game to retain the same amount of simulation "accuracy" as it has right now, and coming in here like a total douche and saying, "But it's not a sim at all, because a sim is an all-or-nothing thing" contributes literally nothing to the conversation.

I think part of what the OP is getting at with this whole sim vs. non-sim thing is the elitist attitude people take. You demonstrate by talking about Hawken that way. As if somehow Hawken is less or people who like it are less because it's not a "sim" like MWO. Maybe I'm reading too much into your post, but that's the feeling I get. I think what the OP is trying to do is bring people back down to Earth. This isn't a sim, it's a shooter. It has some elements other shooters don't which give it more of a "sim" feel but it's not a sim and it's not somehow better then other faster-paced games and you are not somehow a superior gamer (over those who play Hawken for example) for playing it.

[Angus McBeef]

shadowdragon99, on 26 December 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

it relates to the thought of who i will be Gaming with if they think across the board or if they are focused on the Goal, if the Patch ever loads lol i will try it out.

Well, I'd have to say not to use a forum as a litmus test for a game. Play the game and THEN decide. Forums are primarily full of trolls trying to get you mad, master debaters trying to win the internet, and fools with no purpose at all (like me!).

[Conure]

shadowdragon99, on 26 December 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

it relates to the thought of who i will be Gaming with if they think across the board or if they are focused on the Goal, if the Patch ever loads lol i will try it out.

I'm sorry but your post count is 2 and neither of them sense

[CeeKay Boques]

I fly flight sims, play Arma. This game is on its way to being a Sim, with Simulation as the goal. That's good enough for me, I don't need a start up procedure, I usually quick start engines anyway, I want to play.

When proper jstick and pedal and trackIR are in, the is it sim enough?

[Conure]

Angus McBeef, on 26 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Well, I'd have to say not to use a forum as a litmus test for a game. Play the game and THEN decide. Forums are primarily full of trolls trying to get you mad, master debaters trying to win the internet, and fools with no purpose at all (like me!).

I think I am in the second category, though surprisingly I've never won yet. Hahaha.

Technoviking, on 26 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

I fly flight sims, play Arma. This game is on its way to being a Sim, with Simulation as the goal. That's good enough for me, I don't need a start up procedure, I usually quick start engines anyway, I want to play.

When proper jstick and pedal and trackIR are in, the is it sim enough?

TrackIR would add so much to the immersion and SA of this game.

[CeeKay Boques]

You could say, that because its not the ultimate, its not a sim. What about DCS A-10 vs the Flaming Cliffs A-10? Is only one a sim? If so, then ONLY the pinnacle can be the sim.

This is the Mech Pinnacle.

[Kaspirikay]

Its actually a simulation of the forums in battlemech form. With the mechs as posters and weapons as arguments.

[Sears]

You used to get a lot of speculation threads before CB which were on the topic of simulation. Some people wanted it to take up to 24 hours to refit a mech to simulate how difficult it is to change mechs around. These are nice fluff ideas but they stop you playing.

The only way I could think of the piloting to become more simmish is to add more buttons that do things most people won't use, like headlights.

Does need the option to run passive though!

This game will be a compromise between simulation and arcade.

[Thorn Hallis]

I call MWO a simulation and there is nothing you can do about it. Case closed, we're taking a break 'til 1300.