45 replies to this topic

[tommidelarosa]

Lege, on 28 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

The 4J has been my favorite hunchback for months.
I pack 2x srm-6 and 6x small lasers or 2x ssrm and 6x ML, with at least 18 dhs and endo.
Personally I feel LRMs are better done with other mechs.
If I'm going to run an LRM boat, I'm going with at least volleys of 35.
It was a lot better when I could run the 300 XL in it, but even with a 260 or 255 it still gets the job done.
Always try to run with an assault or heavy, when they turn to shoot your allies get in their rear and take them down fast.
Protect your hunch by putting the non-hunch side of your mech towards fire when not shooting.
Always balance out your back side armor too, standard hunchbacks seem about 4 points low in the rear.

i can also try that. but with average of 300 ping on my end i am not sure if SRMs are a way to go for me. been juggling around different configs (mostly copied from guides i read through) and i will try the SRMs in a bit.

[Goldhawk]

I hate to be the downer, but you have a HUGE target on your shoulders for people to fire upon. The HJ variant is one that has almost everything in the right torso. Perhaps choosing the double missile racked one would have been a better alternative, oh well, Hindsight. For the one that I put together, I put 2 medium pulse with 2 regular lasers, and added a couple of SRM 4 racks, maxed out the armor and rode with that with heatsinks. It works really well.

Oh and that hunchback is NOT the 1st one to the party if you know what I mean..... Don't lead the charge, it's mostly for support.

[tommidelarosa]

haha. that's true, sadly. just got off from a couple of games and once they take out my right torso i am useless already. i am so buying the 4SP as soon as i get enough money and all the basic effs unlocked (one more to go).

and when you say 2 regular lasers, you mean 2 medium lasers, right?

[FrostPaw]

My 4J currently runs with...

1xLRM15 + Artemis
1xLRM10 + Artemis
About 540 rounds of ammo with case
2x medium lasers one in each arm
1x medium laser in the head
Endo Steel Structure

It's not fast, but then it's essentially support so it doesn't need to be. I stay back and support with lrms until I'm out and then I move in and polish off anybody still alive with the lasers. It's not going to win matches on its own but that's why you are in a team. For it's size and weight, if you can get those lrms on target it will get you near the top of the scoresheet. I typically get between 450-550 damage done assuming I don't get pounced on solo mid battle.

It's really not a mech for solo pugging though, because it's vulnerable on it's own, you need to be with a spotter with Tag or supporting the brawlers (that have ecm!). It was a far superior Hunchback before ecm but then, I think most mediums were in that boat. If you're solo, you rely too much on luck to find targets that don't vanish before your missiles impact, so it under performs in that role.

Never...never take XL engines in a hunchback with a hunch, you lose the hunch almost every brawl so try and stay back and fire your missiles before brawling and then when you do, be happy knowing they would rather destroy your empty missile pod than kill you outright. It buys your team time to assist you.

Edited by FrostPaw, 28 December 2012 - 10:10 PM.

[Stingz]

Goldhawk, on 28 December 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Oh and that hunchback is NOT the 1st one to the party if you know what I mean..... Don't lead the charge, it's mostly for support.

True, the armor of medium mechs aren't great for direct-attack. Heavy and Assault mechs fit that role much better with their high armor.

A Stalker works best currently for head-on rushing of the opponent.

Edited by Stingz, 28 December 2012 - 10:20 PM.

[Nehkrosis]

my 4J

2x Med lasers
2x Large Lasers

2x Srm4

DHS
Endo

AMS

[So who took Pilot Name as a name]

I'm probably just REALLY bad at LRMs, because most of the times I manage to score above 300 damage is when I've used all my LRMs and/or mostly Medium lasers brawling... now I know my build currently uses a lot of ''dead weight'' but here's what it looks like. I swear, sometimes it's pathetic, I get under 100 eventhough I used and (thought I) hit with all my LRMs + Artemis + TAG + direct line of sight!

2x Med lasers
2x LRM10 + Artemis
360 ammo

TAG
AMS + 1 ton ammo
BAP
245 STD engine
10x DHS

Endo
FF

[tommidelarosa]

FrostPaw, on 28 December 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

My 4J currently runs with...

1xLRM15 + Artemis
1xLRM10 + Artemis
About 540 rounds of ammo with case
2x medium lasers one in each arm
1x medium laser in the head
Endo Steel Structure

It's not fast, but then it's essentially support so it doesn't need to be. I stay back and support with lrms until I'm out and then I move in and polish off anybody still alive with the lasers. It's not going to win matches on its own but that's why you are in a team. For it's size and weight, if you can get those lrms on target it will get you near the top of the scoresheet. I typically get between 450-550 damage done assuming I don't get pounced on solo mid battle.

It's really not a mech for solo pugging though, because it's vulnerable on it's own, you need to be with a spotter with Tag or supporting the brawlers (that have ecm!). It was a far superior Hunchback before ecm but then, I think most mediums were in that boat. If you're solo, you rely too much on luck to find targets that don't vanish before your missiles impact, so it under performs in that role.

Never...never take XL engines in a hunchback with a hunch, you lose the hunch almost every brawl so try and stay back and fire your missiles before brawling and then when you do, be happy knowing they would rather destroy your empty missile pod than kill you outright. It buys your team time to assist you.

We have almost the same setup with endo steel (but i dont have the funds yet for the 260 engine) and i have to say, my game improved. i can barely do damage before but now i can deal on average 250 - 400 per game. For a scrub like me that looks like a very good number already.

even had a game with 2 kills. i may have the most horrible KDR in the world and making 4 kills across 6 games with everyone's suggestions here made me enjoy the 4J.

But I am still getting that 4SP as soon as i have the chance...

[TygerLily]

Oh ****, let's do this!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3d14368b4d410bb

[Ezazel]

So who took Pilot Name as a name, on 29 December 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

I'm probably just REALLY bad at LRMs, because most of the times I manage to score above 300 damage is when I've used all my LRMs and/or mostly Medium lasers brawling... now I know my build currently uses a lot of ''dead weight'' but here's what it looks like. I swear, sometimes it's pathetic, I get under 100 eventhough I used and (thought I) hit with all my LRMs + Artemis + TAG + direct line of sight!

Sounds wierd. I used to learn the game with a standard Hunchback J when it was still offered as a trial mech and i managed to do more lrm damage even without tag or artemis. And that was despite ecm just hit the market and it was really op in its unnerffed condition (i admit there were lots of noobs who didn't understand to stay under the ecm umbrella. but there are some still).

A couple of possible explanations come to my mind: do you fire from correct range? LRMs have range of 180-1000m and optimum is less than 400 (but more than 180 naturally). And second do you keep the missile lock on (ie. reticule on target) while the missiles are flying towards their target? This is something i learned the hard way and only after a friend told me that they are not fire and forget, you must actively maintain the lock.

[tommidelarosa]

Ezazel, on 29 December 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

Sounds wierd. I used to learn the game with a standard Hunchback J when it was still offered as a trial mech and i managed to do more lrm damage even without tag or artemis. And that was despite ecm just hit the market and it was really op in its unnerffed condition (i admit there were lots of noobs who didn't understand to stay under the ecm umbrella. but there are some still).

A couple of possible explanations come to my mind: do you fire from correct range? LRMs have range of 180-1000m and optimum is less than 400 (but more than 180 naturally). And second do you keep the missile lock on (ie. reticule on target) while the missiles are flying towards their target? This is something i learned the hard way and only after a friend told me that they are not fire and forget, you must actively maintain the lock.

True. I also didnt know that you have to maintain the lock. And I only shoot them with LRMs if they are between 400 to 800m away.

And by the way, how do you use TAG and how does it work? didnt notice anything special when i was using it.

[tommidelarosa]

TygerLily, on 29 December 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Oh ****, let's do this!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3d14368b4d410bb

do you have any problems when engaging with some lights or other meds getting close to you? i feel having only 2 MLs won't get the job done when you can't fire an LRM on an enemy that's close to you.

[Ezazel]

tommidelarosa, on 29 December 2012 - 08:03 PM, said:

And by the way, how do you use TAG and how does it work? didnt notice anything special when i was using it.

You must aim the target with tag laser and keep it on the target as long as the missiles are in the air. This breaks the ecm shield and makes the missiles hit in a tighter group.

[tommidelarosa]

Ezazel, on 29 December 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

You must aim the target with tag laser and keep it on the target as long as the missiles are in the air. This breaks the ecm shield and makes the missiles hit in a tighter group.

thanks. i also read through the forums about it just now. it's painful that you have to maintain an active TAG for it to work. one thing i cant find though, does it require a line of sight for TAG to "paint" a target? it can be good for a 4J and put it in the head for those using LRM10 and LRM15, but requires more micro though.

[Ezazel]

Yes, los is needed. Head location is good for tag as you only have to expose head.

[TygerLily]

tommidelarosa, on 29 December 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

do you have any problems when engaging with some lights or other meds getting close to you? i feel having only 2 MLs won't get the job done when you can't fire an LRM on an enemy that's close to you.

Actually, it's a build for team play so it is obviously weak as a 1v1 player. The theory is, you load your LRM's into a smaller chassis so that you assaults and heavies can be the brawlers they're meant to be. But you'd be moving with a team. Only other weakness is there's only 4 tons of ammo. The tag helps out some with raining ecm targets.

Example of the "metal up front" idea, if you drop with the 4J, 2 LRM 20s, then weight matching will drop in a Cicada, Hunchy, or Centurion. Much more preferable to dropping in a DDC (Atlas w/ most missile slots) and weight matching dropping in another opposing Atlas, Awesome, Stalker, etc. Or if you go in a Catapault, the enemy gains a Dragon (meh), Catapault, or Catphract.

[tommidelarosa]

TygerLily, on 29 December 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Actually, it's a build for team play so it is obviously weak as a 1v1 player. The theory is, you load your LRM's into a smaller chassis so that you assaults and heavies can be the brawlers they're meant to be. But you'd be moving with a team. Only other weakness is there's only 4 tons of ammo. The tag helps out some with raining ecm targets.

Example of the "metal up front" idea, if you drop with the 4J, 2 LRM 20s, then weight matching will drop in a Cicada, Hunchy, or Centurion. Much more preferable to dropping in a DDC (Atlas w/ most missile slots) and weight matching dropping in another opposing Atlas, Awesome, Stalker, etc. Or if you go in a Catapault, the enemy gains a Dragon (meh), Catapault, or Catphract.

makes a lot of sense. i can try your configuration and see how it will treat me.

never understood anything about the weight matching though. is that similar to the matchmaking by battle tiers in World of Tanks?

[So who took Pilot Name as a name]

Ezazel, on 29 December 2012 - 07:54 PM, said:

A couple of possible explanations come to my mind: do you fire from correct range? LRMs have range of 180-1000m and optimum is less than 400 (but more than 180 naturally). And second do you keep the missile lock on (ie. reticule on target) while the missiles are flying towards their target? This is something i learned the hard way and only after a friend told me that they are not fire and forget, you must actively maintain the lock.

If optimum is less than 400m? What is... optimum for Small Lasers then? I know I can shoot UP TO 180m but the ''green'' range ends at 90m; taking the ''minimum range'' of LRMs into account (which I knew of already), you'd think ''optimum'' would be 180-1000m.

Still, I shoot within TAG range, keep direct line of sight and constantly tag the target until the missiles hit; no idea how I do little damage still. Sure I prefer to be closer but usually not too close since I don't want to attrack attention. I'd say I shoot between 350-750m, and favour targets which won't benefit from AMS too.

Edited by So who took Pilot Name as a name, 30 December 2012 - 06:05 AM.

[TygerLily]

tommidelarosa, on 30 December 2012 - 02:40 AM, said:

never understood anything about the weight matching though. is that similar to the matchmaking by battle tiers in World of Tanks?

I never did WoT but I think the MWO weight matching goes by chassis size. So if you drop in a light it will match the other team with a light, be it 25 ton Commando or 35 ton Raven. Both are "light"...

[Dirus Nigh]

I like the 4J and have had great success with it. What turned me to the mech was that I did not want to use the swayback and the 4H was to similar to the 4G founder I have.

The stock 4J may run hot in a close in fight but it can be very effective. The whole Idea behind the 4J is that it is a guard for a support lance. The lasers are for fending off any mech that would attack the lance in close range while the LRMs insure that it helps with long range fire. The 4J is supposed to stick with catapults and LRM equipped awesomes.

A pilot with good heat management skills can use this mech to great effect.

Most of my mech load outs are very similar to the original variant. I find a good stock mech I can use then tweak them for best effect. Some times I do go beyond that. Here are some 4J load outs I have used sense closed beta and even after ECM was implemented.

1)
endo steel
added 2 heat sinks
CASE LT

This really helped with heat management. when targets are 300m or less I just use lasers. Waiting an extra beat on firing my torso lasers help.

2)
endo steel
added artemis to the LRM10s.
CASE LT.

The artemis made long range support more effective. I heated up more than I did with the load out above, but the change was worth the accuracy for the LRMs.

When running hot (50%) I would switch the torso lasers on chain fire. This let me keep up a good rate of fire while not having the large heat spikes of firing them all together.

3)
endo steel
Large laser RT (replaces mediums)
CASE LT

The large laser added to my long range hitting power and accuracy. I could snipe when LRMs had a good chance of missing.
It also produces less heat than three medium lasers.

4)
LRM15 replaced the two LRM10s
large laser replaced the RT medium lasers.
heat sink
CASE LT

This was used in closed beta. It could still be viable now. The LRM15 will consume less ammo per shot. This lets your ammo last long and missile not as harsh. It also produces less heat than two LRM10s. Again the large lasers adds to long range effectiveness and better heat management.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 30 December 2012 - 09:27 PM.