533 replies to this topic

[Daekar]

Alaric the Arcane, on 28 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

So, out of the average 200 or so players on the community TS3 server no one is doing 8-mans because it's too hard?

Well, I wouldn't have put it that way, but yeah, that's about it. It's just no fun when your skill level is lower and your build isn't optimized and you're just playing for fun (beer and crisps, I think the EU guys call it). All of which you would know if you had read any of the other responses.

Stop trying to force people to play the way you want. We'll play the way WE want, or we won't play. You can do what you want.

Edited by Daekar, 28 December 2012 - 02:38 PM.

[Broceratops]

if you haven't really been that great at any game before, and now you're winning pug games at a 80% clip because you're on TS the whole time, do you REALLY think it's because for whatever reason you're amazing at this particular game somehow? and yet when you play 8 man you're suddenly losing 80% of the time due to ecm/lights/assaults/baserush/camping/whatever the f, and not because you're just playing against people who are also on TS?

if you're scared to play 8 man, thats fine. but its the epitome of this game's competitive scene and its as balanced as you are going to get because both teams can do the same thing and there are no outside factors like random pugs. you win or you lose based on your own merit. don't make excuses why you're not doing it. just enjoy your pugstomping days now, because once that matchmaker comes out the glory days are over.

its a psychological thing. some people, if they can't do something, in order to live with themselves they try to pretend it's flawed or beneath them or some other excuse. other people, they decide they want it enough they work at it and get better until they have it.

Edited by Broceratops, 28 December 2012 - 02:43 PM.

[Barnaby Jones]

Asakara, on 28 December 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Lone Wolves do not get to chose which queue they drop in. When they hit launch the system decides how best to assign them.

So how is that any different that what we had prior to MM phase one (aside from elo implementation) or MM phase 3 (with elo)?

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Lets be honest there is likely to be only one outcome that most would agree on.

Single Player Que
Group que 2,4,6,8 man teams.

[Barnaby Jones]

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

Lets be honest there is likely to be only one outcome that most would agree on.

Single Player Que
Group que 2,4,6,8 man teams.

There is no agreement on that.
Single player only queues is a terrible idea.

[Broceratops]

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

So how is that any different that what we had prior to MM phase one (aside from elo implementation) or MM phase 3 (with elo)?

with elo, a current pugstomp 4man will either face off against players individually much better than them, and without the random noobs that just run in and die.

or if they're pretty good, they'll just face off against other 4 man teams equally good. i expect the higher ratings to mostly be groups because its a big advantage (as can be seen currently)

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

There is no agreement on that.
Single player only queues is a terrible idea.

So we don't want groups in pug play, but we don't want solo play?

Gotcha!

[Asakara]

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

So how is that any different that what we had prior to MM phase one (aside from elo implementation) or MM phase 3 (with elo)?

With the current plans the dreaded "pug vs premade" will still happen. Prior to MM it was "anything goes" with 8 man premades fighting 8 pugs. With Phase 1 we got 4 man premades fighting pugs. With phase 3 we will have the same, only supposedly the 4 man premades will be matched against equally skilled puggers.. At least that is the theory.

With factions, anyone who declares they are part of a player run unit (aka a premade) only fights others who have done the same. Anyone who declares they are part of a house (aka a pugger) only fights others who have done the same. Anyone who declares they are a lone wolf will get a bonus for doing so and will fight anyone the system deems necessary, including each other.

Edited by Asakara, 28 December 2012 - 02:52 PM.

[Daekar]

Broceratops, on 28 December 2012 - 02:37 PM, said:

if you haven't really been that great at any game before, and now you're winning pug games at a 80% clip because you're on TS the whole time, do you REALLY think it's because for whatever reason you're amazing at this particular game somehow? and yet when you play 8 man you're suddenly losing 80% of the time due to ecm/lights/assaults/baserush/camping/whatever the f, and not because you're just playing against people who are also on TS?

if you're scared to play 8 man, thats fine. but its the epitome of this game's competitive scene and its as balanced as you are going to get because both teams can do the same thing and there are no outside factors like random pugs. you win or you lose based on your own merit. don't make excuses why you're not doing it. just enjoy your pugstomping days now, because once that matchmaker comes out the glory days are over.

its a psychological thing. some people, if they can't do something, in order to live with themselves they try to pretend it's flawed or beneath them or some other excuse. other people, they decide they want it enough they work at it and get better until they have it.

That may be true for some of us, but some are perfectly willing to admit that they can't hack it in the majors.

[Broceratops]

Daekar, on 28 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

That may be true for some of us, but some are perfectly willing to admit that they can't hack it in the majors.

i should have added another group, the ones that just accept they're what they are and have fun with the game without making snarky excuses. this is not a large group unfortunately.

[Sir Trent Howell]

Shameless plug:
Blazing Aces are looking for organized scrimmages for those interested in 8v8s still.

[Buck Cake]

8 DDC vs 8 DDC is simply boring and not many people want to do it. I also miss the time when i could x-up 5, 6 or 7 people and join a match, without having to worry about sync-dropping and whatnot.

[Barnaby Jones]

Broceratops, on 28 December 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

with elo, a current pugstomp 4man will either face off against players individually much better than them, and without the random noobs that just run in and die.

or if they're pretty good, they'll just face off against other 4 man teams equally good. i expect the higher ratings to mostly be groups because its a big advantage (as can be seen currently)

My point was he was describing MM phase three with a faction modifier. Or in otherwords, thats already on the way with the faction bit being tied into when they implement the meta game.

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

So we don't want groups in pug play, but we don't want solo play?

Gotcha!

The group vs pug "menace" is greatly over exagerated, and ******* up queues that work in order to placate the exagerators is not the way a MULTIPLAYER game should be fixed.

Edited by Barnaby Jones, 28 December 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[Alaric the Arcane]

Daekar, on 28 December 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Stop trying to force people to play the way you want. We'll play the way WE want, or we won't play. You can do what you want.

I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. Stop having a victim mentality. Go ahead and keep playing 4-mans, but don't try to make up BS excuses of why you and the rest of the community TS3 servers don't play 8s.

[Asakara]

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

My point was he was describing MM phase three with a faction modifier. Or in otherwords, thats already on the way with the faction bit being tied into when they implement the meta game.



The group vs pug "menace" is greatly over exagerated, and ******* up queues that work in order to placate the exagerators is not the way a MULTIPLAYER game should be fixed.

I was not talking at all about MM Phase 3 and ELO in my original post, you brought up ELO in your response.. Though factions and ELO can easily work side by side (and probably will).

I was stating that the initial framework necessary for community warfare to function (i.e. factions) may possibly solve the pugs vs premades issue and also the not-enough-players-to-8-man issue combined. I do not believe MM Phase 3's ELO will solve either of those issues on its own.

[Barnaby Jones]

Asakara, on 28 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

I was not talking at all about MM Phase 3 and ELO in my original post, you brought up ELO in your response.. Though factions and ELO can easily work side by side (and probably will).

I was stating that the initial framework necessary for community warfare to function (i.e. factions) may possibly solve the pugs vs premades issue and also the not-enough-players-to-8-man issue combined. I do not believe MM Phase 3's ELO will solve either of those issues on its own.

What you were describing IS phase three with added faction stuff. The point was what you described IS already going to happen. The faction bit is just going to happen later.

Edited by Barnaby Jones, 28 December 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Serious question for those that only play 8 mans...how many games do you play in an average hour? 2? 3?

Are all of you non-smokers? Any children? Never need to urinate?

I'm guessing that my unit is older in age that some of the others on here (and thus have prostate issues).

Aside from those out of game issues, it's not too entertaining when there are only like 2 other teams on. Maybe you guys see more 8 man teams on when you play but once it gets past 10pm PST, it really starts to die down.

Why bother dropping in a 2-2-2-2 setup when youre gonna see 3-0-1-4 or some variation of it?

DV McKenna, on 28 December 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Find yourself a decent team that is beginner friendly, (ELP or Wolf Spiders are good for this) and join in a proper organized scrim between two teams, this is where you will find games that don't always just end in brawls, and this is where you will find what the competitive 8v8 games are like.

Our unit is already in the RHOD tourney...I already have an idea of what competitive 8 man games are like.

[Galenit]

About ELO ?
Will it take groups in account?

Players in a group should wighted higher then ungrouped players.
Based on groupcount it should up the eloscore by 0.075 for each groupmember. At member of a two man team will count 1.15x his elo, a member of a 8 man 1,6x his elo. It equals the communication-advantage a group have. The exact modifier must be adjusted over time by tracking data.
On this way there can be only 1 queue for all players.

Edit: Corrected the multiplyers
Edit2: Numbers must be much smaller, 0,075 is to much for 1800 maximum elo. It will up 1000 to 1600 for a 8 man member. Maybe a number instead of a modifier is better, like up elo by 50 for each groupmember. For a 8 man it gives 400 elo to each member, for a twoman 100.

Edited by Galenit, 28 December 2012 - 03:50 PM.

[Lonestar1771]

Wise man once said, "Games that aren't fun, are rarely played"

Edited by Lonestar1771, 28 December 2012 - 03:43 PM.

[geck0 icaza]

Personally because of several factors (most of them amplified by ECM) the current first order viable comp is 2 DC's 3-4 Raven SL's the rest being Guasspults or some other DPS heavy mech.

That is literally it.

Until there is something that can beat that this will be the majority of the matches you fight. I have nothing against a viable strategy but when it becomes the defacto meta in this kind of game it becomes boring really fast. Thats why a lot of the 8 man teams aren't on and likely (among other games) playing planetside.

Lyoto Machida, on 28 December 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Why bother dropping in a 2-2-2-2 setup when youre gonna see 3-0-1-4 or some variation of it?

Pretty much nailed it.