533 replies to this topic

[Alaric the Arcane]

Lyoto Machida, on 28 December 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Serious question for those that only play 8 mans...how many games do you play in an average hour? 2? 3?

About 5-8.

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Are all of you non-smokers? Any children? Never need to urinate?

I'm guessing that my unit is older in age that some of the others on here (and thus have prostate issues).

We have people with jobs. We have smokers. We have people with wives, girlfriends, kids. Yes, we also pee. Sorry, the "real life" card isn't an excuse!

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Our unit is already in the RHOD tourney...I already have an idea of what competitive 8 man games are like.

Hope to see you there!

[Asakara]

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

What you were describing IS phase three with added faction stuff. The point was what you described IS already going to happen.

Phase 3 is ELO, not factions or community warfare. Yes CW will happen, maybe even by February (which is around 90 days from when they went to OB in October).. Maybe not.

I just believe that implementing the bare-bones factions framework now or soon™ (without loyalty points, the InnerSphere map, system contracts / missions, taking planets, controlling resources, etc...) will solve the pugs vs premades issue and the less-than-8-players-so-no-8-v-8-for-you issue.. Even if they totally scrapped the MM P3 ELO system today.

As before, I do not believe Phase 3's ELO system, on its own will solve those issues.. Which is why I brought up factions.

But hey, maybe the ELO system by itself will somehow allow groups of less than 8 to participate in 8 v 8.. And maybe once it is out all the pugs vs premade complaints will cease. I guess we will see.

Edited by Asakara, 28 December 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[Buck Cake]

Failed to find a match.

[a rabid chihuahua]

I like icecream..

[Glory in the Highest]

Lyoto Machida, on 28 December 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

Why bother dropping in a 2-2-2-2 setup when youre gonna see 3-0-1-4 or some variation of it?

Up until last night, we dropped our 8-man in RHOD dropdecs only - which included 2-2-2-2.

It was fine.

Last night, we decided to go all-out and dropped the RHOD dropdec just to see.

It wasn't any easier using 4 DDCs and 4 Ravens than it was NOT doing so.

[superteds]

had some good 8 mans tonight. won some, lost most

[Barnaby Jones]

geck0 icaza, on 28 December 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

Personally because of several factors (most of them amplified by ECM) the current first order viable comp is 2 DC's 3-4 Raven SL's the rest being Guasspults or some other DPS heavy mech.

That is literally it.

Until there is something that can beat that this will be the majority of the matches you fight. I have nothing against a viable strategy but when it becomes the defacto meta in this kind of game it becomes boring really fast. Thats why a lot of the 8 man teams aren't on and likely (among other games) playing planetside.



Pretty much nailed it.

The problem isnt finding some thing to beat that comp (a mirror comp for instance), its about finding something that is fun to beat that comp.

[SilentWolff]

4 - 8 mans tonight, 3 against KAoS

[Monky]

If you guys want to help fix 8-man, you're going to have to contribute to posts that directly confront the problems, in a polite way rather than flaming eachother. Dev's don't listen to rants and insults.

Start here for example;

http://mwomercs.com/...25#entry1672925

[Taizan]

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

The group vs pug "menace" is greatly over exagerated, and ******* up queues that work in order to placate the exagerators is not the way a MULTIPLAYER game should be fixed.

The point isn't about exaggeration or not, its about people who cried to finally have 8vs8 again since MM phase 1 now still go on pug stomping because they actually never wanted 8vs8. They want to farm and win.

In several of these kind of threads i've seen so many familiar names that claimed they only do 8vs8 but in the end when I pug or go along with 1-2 friends we get rolled by them and their mighty teams, some even proudly declaring "Join <clan / regiment name> now" or some other kind of moniker / spam etc.

The hypocrisy of many "8vs8 players" is ridiculous and detrimental to the game.

[Eagle vFv]

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

The problem isnt finding some thing to beat that comp (a mirror comp for instance), its about finding something that is fun to beat that comp.

OK, I'll be the one to say it... MGs are OP and are breaking 8mans cause they don't need lockz

[Barnaby Jones]

Taizan, on 28 December 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

The point isn't about exaggeration or not, its about people who cried to finally have 8vs8 again since MM phase 1 now still go on pug stomping because they actually never wanted 8vs8. They want to farm and win.

In several of these kind of threads i've seen so many familiar names that claimed they only do 8vs8 but in the end when I pug or go along with 1-2 friends we get rolled by them and their mighty teams, some even proudly declaring "Join <clan / regiment name> now" or some other kind of moniker / spam etc.

The hypocrisy of many "8vs8 players" is ridiculous and detrimental to the game.

I think you have things a bit confused.

the chorus of "Nerf Teamwork" from the masses got us phase one.
Showing the devs that 8 mans are still possible during MM1 changed that howl from the exagerators to "Give them their own que".
Phase 2, did nothing but muddy **** up, and embolden the whiners to start demanding a solo only que in a team game, and you want to explain peoples distaste for the inherent problems with the current 8 man que as purely a "They just suck too bad and only want to roll pugs".

You, sir, are wrong.

[Barnaby Jones]

Buddahcjcc, on 28 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

you are confused... the "howl" give them their own que has been there (and ignored) since CB. Since you have been ABLE to group

Allow me to say then that the howl returned, then.

If it has been ignored, I can only hope it continues to be ignored.

[Lyoto Machida]

Alaric the Arcane, on 28 December 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

About 5-8.

Damn...you guys must smash people pretty quickly then. 8 games in an hour means 7.5 minutes from the end of one game to the other (including any downtime in between/searching for a game).

What's your secret?

Glory, on 28 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Up until last night, we dropped our 8-man in RHOD dropdecs only - which included 2-2-2-2.

It was fine.

Last night, we decided to go all-out and dropped the RHOD dropdec just to see.

It wasn't any easier using 4 DDCs and 4 Ravens than it was NOT doing so.

Easier to what? Win or find a game? I'm guessing easier to win, since it drop composition doesn't affect matchmaking right now.

[Eagle vFv]

Lyoto Machida, on 28 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Damn...you guys must smash people pretty quickly then. 8 games in an hour means 7.5 minutes from the end of one game to the other (including any downtime in between/searching for a game).

What's your secret?

When you have both teams working closely together things happen quickly and battles do not get needlessly drawn out like it can in pug matches. 7 to 8 minute battles are not out of the ordinary.

[Taizan]

Barnaby Jones, on 28 December 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

the chorus of "Nerf Teamwork" from the masses got us phase one.
Showing the devs that 8 mans are still possible during MM1 changed that howl from the exagerators to "Give them their own que".
Phase 2, did nothing but muddy **** up, and embolden the whiners to start demanding a solo only que in a team game, and you want to explain peoples distaste for the inherent problems with the current 8 man que as purely a "They just suck too bad and only want to roll pugs".

You, sir, are wrong.

If I am so wrong - why do you think there are several of those 8 man teams still running against 3-8 completely random players? If they wanted to prove that their team play is so great, then why not do so against an equally coherent team instead? Maybe they don't even suck (which I don't think is the main issue) but nevertheless they prefer to take their kind of team play to a level that is technically beneath theirs.

Finally there is a halfway solid 8vs8 function (not perfect but workable) and its obviously still not the popular choice for many regiments/clans etc. out there. Even proudly mentioning at the beginning or end of match how the enemy team consisting of random players got their a** nicely handed to them. This is nothing more than a mixture of schoolyard bullying / farming c-bills / pushing team mate's mech exp by taking the easy route.

[Brilig]

My guess as to why there are fewer 8 mans would be time between matches. When you are running a 4 man you are usually launching moments after everyone is out of their last game. When running in 8 mans you will have 5 - 10 minutes in between matches sometimes. Most of that has to do with getting everyone readied up quickly, some of it is searching for matches and not finding any. Then of course the matches themselves tend to take longer.

So what you run into is in a 4 man you can get in 9-10 games in an hour. Where as running 8 man you get 4-6. (Numbers are guestimates. I didn't do a serious study.)

When we have the people online I like to push for 8 mans because the gameplay itself is more fun for me. But when you are trying to get experience or CBills 4 man tends to be much faster.

[Truthstar]

TheMagician, on 28 December 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

8v8s are where true competition is at. Where are the teams? We queued up last night, and had several time-outs, and then we played a couple teams twice, and a third team once. We should be having many teams playing these. 4v4s are not that much fun are they?

1. PGI needs to implement class limits per drop ASAP.
2. PGI needs to implement 4v4 in order for the community to properly grow. Building a competent Unit in this atmosphere is pushing it.

[Malora Sidewinder]

i enjoy 8 mans, but only if i'm with my usual group of 3, PLUS 4 other random dudes who i can't count on. the 4 of us end up overpowering the other 8 mans pretty handily with minimal firesupport from our allies. i run an ECM DDC atlas, and my teammates usually run about 3 ECM out of the 4 of us, with a streakcat being the sole exception.

we love 8 mans provided the 4 of us get together... but if not then it's no fun because the rest of our allies are pretty horribad pilots with terribad builds that get slaughtered faster than we can compensate for them. if we had better pilots we'd do more 8 mans, but for the most part we do 4 mans.

[Barnaby Jones]

Buddahcjcc, on 28 December 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

so you can continue to pad your stats with wins ah I see
I guess pugstomp = skill

You mean the stats that only I can see, and have never looked at? sounds legit to me.