533 replies to this topic

[Virisken]

topgun505, on 28 December 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

This.

Without any sort of match maker most 8-man teams have evolved (or devolved?) Into 5-6 ECM-DDCs + 2-3 ECM-Raven. If you don't take something similar you generally don't stand a chance. If you do take something similar then the games become very monochromatic and rather boring.

Match maker of some sort definitely needs to be reinstated.

thats excactly the point why i stoped playing 8v8. i my opionion a tactic teamshooters makes more fun, if your strategy, setup and skill is responsible if you win or lose..not if you have enough mechs with ecm or not.

getting so tired of playing my atlas-dc...

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Mycrus, on 28 December 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

We are looking for 8-mans for friendly scrimmages...

So far the only way we found to have 8-man drops is to organize it ourselves..

We can set drop config rules like 2A / 2H / 2M / 2L -- or even limit ECM per drop team.

We find it is a more balanced way to play - find us in the NGNG TS3 ARMD channel.

We'll keep this in mind next time we have 8 people for a full drop.

[Windsaw]

Sears, on 28 December 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

The biggest problem is just maintaining 8 man groups without someone dropping out.

This is why 8 drops are hard and frustrating to get into.

The ECM-problems are the reason why 8 drops are not much fun once you manage to start it.

[Krondor]

I don't know how people claim ECM adds tactical options. It redues them significantly by shoehorning the game into 2 main and 2 secondary chassis and reducing or eliminating counters that forced team diversity.

In 4 man these counters still exist, ECM has just reduced them so boating is a lot less common, which IMO makes for a much better and more interesting game.

Edited by Krondor, 28 December 2012 - 07:01 AM.

[Jetfire]

Holidays?

[Opus]

just my observation: Until there is some balancing of classes within 8 mans, most units are avoiding them

[Omigir]

Opus, on 28 December 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

just my observation: Until there is some balancing of classes within 8 mans, most units are avoiding them

Besides the random dice throw on what tonnage we will face (I.E. 3 scouts, 5 atlie) I have been having a hard enough time finding 6 people i like playing with, let alone 8 :\

why waist time dragging in randoms and pug to put together an 8 man if i dont like the people?

[Lee Ving]

Played 3 or 4 rounds of 8 last night on ComstarNA. Fun games, all in all, though I admit I brought my DDC every match.

Edit: 6 - 9 PM ish EST.

Edited by Nadia Winson, 28 December 2012 - 07:41 AM.

[Lusankya]

We have found that playing in 4 man groups is a little more fun and dynamic so we do that instead of playing 8 man teams. Plus we like looking for new names at the start of the match, some people have some real good ones lol .

[Viper69]

For fast games I pug or 4 man. For long games when I feel like I need a cardiac arrest I 8 man.

[Erik Jast]

Most premades realized they didn't like losing and prefer ezmode pugstomping. The majority are back in the pug queue with their 4 mans, stomping away pretending they are awesome with the excuse that 8v8 is full of cheese players.

[Ricktor Black]

The problem with 8-mans for me (and the people I play with) are that we just want to have fun and not always be so competitive. We have enough people to do 8-mans almost every night, but every time we try we usually get destroyed by teams which are taking it much more seriously. We get on teamspeak and we coordinate, but a lot of us are married with kids etc, we don't have time to stage practices, build purpose built mechs for specific functions etc. 8 man battles are a lot of fun, but it's slightly less fun when you are getting your *** kicked every time you drop in.

Maybe it will be a bit better when they tune the lances to require certain weight classes or when the game is out of beta and there is a larger audience of people playing?

[Daekar]

Ummm... no. It largely has nothing to do with cheese, in the end. It's because a lot of you guys are FREAKY GOOD at this game, witu reflexes and aiming ability that we do not and will never have. Combine that with nice high-alpha builds, and we die as soon as we see you. Running into you master players during pugging (or in a group of 4) is bad enough... we still don't stand a chance. But running consistently against that? Heck no. You win, you're better than we are, we concede the field. We'll play with people closer to our skill (I find I'm somewhere in the middle most of the time while solo pugging) and you guys can kill each other scary quick.

Remember gentlemen... this is about fun. Not everyone finds it fun to consistently play against players they have no chance against.

[Erik Jast]

Ricktor Black, on 28 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

The problem with 8-mans for me (and the people I play with) are that we just want to have fun and not always be so competitive. We have enough people to do 8-mans almost every night, but every time we try we usually get destroyed by teams which are taking it much more seriously.

This a hilarious statement because that is what most Pugger are saying. They want to have fun and not always be so competitive. Yet they get grinded into dust by 4-man premades and when they complain about it on the forums, the premades with their arrogance ridicule them, tell them to group up, learn 2 play, etc.

[Ricktor Black]

Krondor, on 28 December 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

I don't know how people claim ECM adds tactical options. It redues them significantly by shoehorning the game into 2 main and 2 secondary chassis and reducing or eliminating counters that forced team diversity.

In 4 man these counters still exist, ECM has just reduced them so boating is a lot less common, which IMO makes for a much better and more interesting game.

I think ECM did more for PUGs than it did for organized groups. Before ECM the PUG matches had kind of settled into a groove where everybody was following a kind of choice of one or two 'lines' across the map and it started to feel like every match was the same. After ECM it forced people to be a bit more cautious and to get in closer to fight. It lowered the emphasis on Streak Cats and LRM boats and changes things up quite a bit. ECM is probably the best thing to happen to PUGs but it's not such a great thing for organized 8 man teams. It would be nice if there were more options for matches to join. So a team could choose a "Balanced Team" option which forced restrictions on tonnage etc and maybe "ECM Limit" to limit number of mechs with ECM?

Personally I think ECM should be limited to a few light or medium scout-type mechs. ECM doesn't seem right on an Atlas. There are things which make sense in the TT and things which are fun in the game. I LOVE rocking my Atlas D-DC with ECM (and I'd miss it) but maybe it's not such a good idea for an online game?

[David Decoster]

8-Mans are ECM-fests most of the time, which is why we rarely do them, even if we have the numbers. It's more fun to actually play the Mechs you WANT to play and do it in a coördinated fashion with friends instead of being forced to play one of 4 specific Mechs just because PGI made another <fornication>-up.

[Kdogg788]

The biggest issue with 8 player games is that they REQUIRE 8 players per premade team. Say what you will about our old matchmaking system, but we could roll 5,6, or 7 players on the fly with people coming and going without worrying about putting in the effort to create a group only for someone to have to leave after one or two games.

-k

[Gristle]

Sears, on 28 December 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

The biggest problem is just maintaining 8 man groups without someone dropping out.

Sears, on 28 December 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

...just maintaining 8 man groups without someone dropping out.

Sears, on 28 December 2012 - 06:44 AM, said:

...just maintaining 8 man groups...

Between players leaving, build tweaks, bio-breaks and game crashes it's frustrating to run an 8-man team. If you're lucky you'll get in 2 or 3 matches in an hour.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I'd play 8v8 if teams were limited on weightclass they could take, or if teams were matched by what you bring, like Matchmaker is in standard play.

Unfortenately as it sits now, with no limitations on what can be brought to the battlefield, we see 5 D-DC's, and 3Ravens or so in the average match, and frankly, that's no fun to me, there's not enough variation in the gameplay in 8v8 right now.

I still stand by my request that PGI limit 8v8 drops to 2-2-2-2...or at the very least, make it so teams are matched with similar weight drops like normal, screw this "unlimited, unrestricted" mode.

[Ricktor Black]

Erik Jast, on 28 December 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

This a hilarious statement because that is what most Pugger are saying. They want to have fun and not always be so competitive. Yet they get grinded into dust by 4-man premades and when they complain about it on the forums, the premades with their arrogance ridicule them, tell them to group up, learn 2 play, etc.

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you agreeing with me or calling me a ***** because I don't play 8-man? Honestly, I personally enjoy 8-man matches. I don't mind loosing, I don't care about my kill/death ratio, I don't even care about earning c-bills. I play this game because I love giant stompy mechs and I don't care if I get wiped out because I take it as a learning experience. But the fact of the matter is that it's difficult to get a group of 8 people who are willing to take that kind of abuse and/or have the time to practice enough to get good enough so they don't get destroyed every match.

I'm in my late 30's, I have a wife and two kids and a full-time job. I'm lucky if I can get 2 or 3 matches in a night (sometimes I can't even do that). I love doing 8 man matches but how much fun is it when you hop in for your 3 matches of the night and just get destroyed every time? Like Daeker is saying above, some of you ******** are really damn good. I'm not going to lie, I'm just not at the same level. I'd like to be, but I don't have the time it takes. You guys can call me a ***** and tell me I suck all day, it's not going to improve anything (in fact that kind of attitude might actually scare away potential players who otherwise MIGHT have been good and given you a good fight down the road).

The person who started this thread asked why more people aren't doing 8-man's and I gave one example why I (and the 15 or so people I play with) choose not to. You can laugh and call me names and not let me play in the reindeer games, it does't change fact that we are not the only ones who feel this way. It might be more productive to come up with new ways to make the game more fun for everybody than just rag on guys who aren't as good as you (as much as I'm sure it boosts your fragile ego).