84 replies to this topic

[RagingOyster]

Malekhai, on 06 January 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

*sigh* A failed annihilation RagingOyster. It has been noted several times that a large portion fo the population was unaccounted for (20% is the number usually used).

Your claims are not based in fact, friend. There has never been any concrete evidence that anyone escaped the Annihilation. A few scattered rumors, a few speculative statements, but nothing even close to definitive proof. The "Minnesota Tribe" is likely just a band of mercs or raiders who stumbled upon an old SLDF cache.
The biggest hole in the "Wolverines escaped" theory, though, is ComStar. If ComStar was aware of the exiled Wolverines (according to some DA documents they were, some say they actually JOINED ComStar) then they would not have been caught totally flat-footed by Operation Revival. But they were, just like the other IS powers.
As i said, the traitors were destroyed long ago.

[Impossible Wasabi]

qultar, on 28 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

EVERY one hates you

The Space Pope accepts all his wayward children, he bears no lesser amount of paternal love towards Clan Wolverine or the other Clans in general.

[Oracus]

We will prove to all non-believers on the battlefield!


Crimson Guard
Clan Wolverine

[-Seneschal-]

Malekhai, correct me if I do the matter injustice.

The clans were at each other's throats when they left. For all that wolverine's descendants would have known the clans would have picked themselves apart before they ever even entered the inner sphere (as they were doing before the trial of annihilation was declared). There was no reason to even expect that they would enter the inner sphere (how much rice and water did you stockpile for the end of the mayan calendar?), and one could go on promoting social development in the inner sphere.

[Malekhai]

GregHM, on 20 January 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Malekhai, correct me if I do the matter injustice.

The clans were at each other's throats when they left. For all that wolverine's descendants would have known the clans would have picked themselves apart before they ever even entered the inner sphere (as they were doing before the trial of annihilation was declared). There was no reason to even expect that they would enter the inner sphere (how much rice and water did you stockpile for the end of the mayan calendar?), and one could go on promoting social development in the inner sphere.

Depends on what lore you are looking at Greg, if you believe the Blake Documents then Clan Wolverine would have actually caused the Clan Invasion by giving the Outbound Light the location of the Clan Homeworlds.

Edited by Malekhai, 21 January 2013 - 03:42 AM.

[Poisoner]

http://www.sarna.net...ayyad_Caliphate

You are welcome OP.

[Grey Black]

Just a word of advice: Don't advertise your team before a match and then get rolled by 4 guys who trash talk the Clans.

[Jaroth Corbett]

RagingOyster, on 07 January 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Your claims are not based in fact, friend. There has never been any concrete evidence that anyone escaped the Annihilation. A few scattered rumors, a few speculative statements, but nothing even close to definitive proof. The "Minnesota Tribe" is likely just a band of mercs or raiders who stumbled upon an old SLDF cache.
The biggest hole in the "Wolverines escaped" theory, though, is ComStar. If ComStar was aware of the exiled Wolverines (according to some DA documents they were, some say they actually JOINED ComStar) then they would not have been caught totally flat-footed by Operation Revival. But they were, just like the other IS powers.
As i said, the traitors were destroyed long ago.

The Clans - Warriors of Kerensky Pg.13



Bloodright Pg.5



Invading Clans Pg.15

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 24 January 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[RagingOyster]

Jaroth Winson, on 24 January 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

The Clans - Warriors of Kerensky Pg.13



Bloodright Pg.5



Invading Clans Pg.15

Ok, so you have given us some excerpts containing

• Bad bookkeeping on the Clans' part
  
• Nicholas Kerensky's personal fears
  
• A man recounting a tale on his deathbed

I see nothing provative here, and hold to the opinion that the Not-Named Clan was annihilated, and even if some of them escaped, they ceased to be an effective organized force in the Inner Sphere. More likely, if any of them escaped they fled to the rimward Periphery and hid there. I still say that if any survivors arrived in the IS, ComStar would have been aware of a technologically advanced civilization existing outside the IS and I am confident Focht could have put 2 and 2 together and figured that this civilization was the descendant of the exiled SLDF.

Also, your condescending tone does nothing to make you sound bigger or more important. Kind of just makes you look like an ***. I never claimed to know more than anyone else, just stated that there is nothing concrete indicating that any of the Not-Named Clan escaped destruction, merely speculation and half-truths.

[Jaroth Corbett]

It said officially it was put down as bad bookkeeping. They considered the matter officially closed.

Also the WHOLE Ghost Bear patrol observed the survivors, it was just related by one man for that brief. Note that Amon is a Star Captain which would would mean at LEAST a Binary of warriors witnessed this.

My condescending tone comes from the fact you called me ignorant of Clan lore in a different thread when you knew nothing about what you were talking about & here you are again. I will never let you forget it, so any post you participate in that deals with the Clans, that I see fit to reply to, expect it & deal with it. The only *** here is you. Should have watched your words in the beginning.

Don't start nothing, won't be nothing.

P.S. I thought you were not replying to anything I had to say.

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 25 January 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[ShamaelTheFallen]

Ok seen this, I´m going to told you my points about the Wolverines

• Less known Clan for the semi-intended Memoria Dammatio
  
• By 2822 was winning the weapons race in Clan Space (Semi-modular weapons loadout, Increased damage in Star Leage Era ERPPC and first Mech manufactured by only 1 clan "Pulverizer")
  
• Bad Feelings between Sarah McEvey and Nicholas
  
• Aboiled castes society (with better results in everything, so Niky´s system wasn´t perfect)
  
• Minnesota tribe = Clan Wolverine (accepted by every Clan and IS and Periphery power)

Now my black points of their History

• Who uses a nuke in a city already evacuated?
  
• If you are with your back in the wall you go to cause the max damage possible, so why Nicholas didnt die in a nuke strike?
  
• If joinned ComStar Wolfs Dragoon would have disapear misteriously (They got a F*****G Kerensky in their ranks for Gods love)
  
• The mistery of Clan Wolverine and the Minnesota Tribe is still Canon

[-Seneschal-]

Yeah... I think asking for "proving" is a little silly here, given what you're read... we are the proof.

[CoffiNail]

ShamaelTheFallen, on 28 January 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Ok seen this, I´m going to told you my points about the Wolverines

• Less known Clan for the semi-intended Memoria Dammatio
  
• By 2822 was winning the weapons race in Clan Space (Semi-modular weapons loadout, Increased damage in Star Leage Era ERPPC and first Mech manufactured by only 1 clan "Pulverizer")
  
• Bad Feelings between Sarah McEvey and Nicholas
  
• Aboiled castes society (with better results in everything, so Niky´s system wasn´t perfect)
  
• Minnesota tribe = Clan Wolverine (accepted by every Clan and IS and Periphery power)

The anhiliation of Clan Wolverine was more so the process of the Khan of Widowmaker, Jason Karriage. He was jealous of the advancments of Clan Wolverine and as such, tossed around a bunch of gossip about their operations. The was no bad feelings between Sarah McEvey and Nicholas, he was just being blinded and mislead by the Widowmaker Khan. The Clans 'Watch' was established back then by various members of the Clans to watch Wolverine.

Khan Sarah McEvey did have a mingling of Castes, allowing members to be multi-casted and switch their castes. This was about the only real friction between McEvey and Kerensky. They as well did have a new ERPPC and Chassis in the works, which also worried other Khans that Wolverine was trying to become greater than the other Clans.

Minnestoa Tribe may or may not be remnintes of Clan Wolverine, I personally do think it is a good chance. They are no longer Clan at all though.

Quote

Now my black points of their History

• Who uses a nuke in a city already evacuated?
  
• If you are with your back in the wall you go to cause the max damage possible, so why Nicholas didnt die in a nuke strike?
  
• If joinned ComStar Wolfs Dragoon would have disapear misteriously (They got a F*****G Kerensky in their ranks for Gods love)
  
• The mistery of Clan Wolverine and the Minnesota Tribe is still Canon

Which city? Dehra Dun was very much populated. Though actual canon history has it that it was Clan Snow Raven trying to take out a Dropship with sibkos with the nuke, the Dropship evaded and the Nuke then hit Dehra Dun. The other city, Great Hope was also iirc a Widowmaker plant. Both cities were full of population, and were not evacuated at all.

Which nuke strike are you talking about that almost took out N. Kerensky?

You do realize that the surname Kerensky is still in the Inner Sphere? It is not a name that only left with the SLDF on the exodus. There were Kerenskys in the IS, just most were nothing special. Natasha though... So ComStar would not have believed it.

"Where are you from?" "The Clans! We are scouting out your forces to determine if you are ready for the children of Kerensky to come liberate the Sphere and re-establish the Star League!"

Sounds kind of funny to someone who the SLDF in Exodus is nothing more than stories your mom's mom, mom told. So nothing was really odd with the Wolf's Dragoons, aside that they arrived with a bunch of shiny new Mechs and Dropships, etc. Most everyone just assumed the Merc unit had stumbled upon a SLDF Cache somewhere.

the mystery of Clan Wolverine and Minnestoa Tribe is very canon, we just do not know if there is any actual relationship between the two

I look forward to fulfilling my Clans rede to extinguish any remnants of the Not-Named.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Actually Coffi, he is correct. It was the Wolverines who nuked Dehra Dun & the city was evacuated before.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 04 February 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[CoffiNail]

This is what we are to believe via sourcebooks, etc.

BattleCorps, which afaik is just as legit as the full novels is from where I know more

Betrayal of Ideals by Blaine Lee Pardoe Books 1-4 a 240 page pdf when all four parts are combined.

Spoiler

Spoiler

The events played out slightly differently. I would very much recomend getting a month sub from battlecorps just for this book, though there are a couple more. One being Founding of the Clans by Randall Bills... he has two more parts to write... Everyone sub, read, love and harass him to finish them!

But yes, Dehra Dun was nuked accidentally by Snow Ravens themselves, and was no where near evacuated.

[Ashla Mason]

The problem I have with Betrayal of Ideals as a novel is that it portrays the Wolverines in the most mary-sue-tastic light imaginable; they're more eglatarian then the other clans, more advanced then the other clans, there warriors never lose battles to the other clans, the watch is retconned into existance to slow them down, they didn't nuke the snow ravens...

Battlecorps approved or not, it comes across as a collosal rewrite by someone who was just a little too fascinated by the not-named clan.

[CoffiNail]

Well victors write history, right?

The Clans made their own history to write off the ToA against Wolverine.

I actually really like the idea of betrayal of ideals. It really opens up more thought to the Clans. I even got a half hinted tweet from Bills, almost a year ago now probably, that The Clans are A LOT more political than most people seem to think. The watch has existed for centuries, but still are horrible. I mean a intelligence operation only really would help point you where a trial should happen... Wolves are making a new suit of battle armour? Oh thanks Watch, I now know to go Trial for said new equipment.

The story opens up a whole new thought to the Clans, Clan Wolverine, etc. Also love how Nick K is shown to be as crazy as he is.

[Ashnod]

Malekhai, on 30 December 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Incorrect. Wolverines according to Clan Lore were annihilated, however 20% of the population is known to have escaped. Clan Wolf conviently had an "error" in recording the population of the Wolverines. The Ghost Bears saw the Wolverines leaving Clan Space. In the course of several years after, the Umayyid incident and the Minnesota Tribe incursions occured. Eventually, ComStar made concact with the remaining Wolverine population and allowed them to settle on Mars. The Wolverines of the course of the next 200 years began pulling strings within ComStar and controlled much of the higher ranks. Eventually even one of the Primus' of ComStar was a full blooded Wolverine. Also, the Wolverines were supposedly responsible for the majority of the new tech that the Word of Blake unleashed. The Explorer Corps was also founded in reaction to the Wolverines and the Outbound Light discovered the Clan homeworlds with the help of Clan Wolverine thus starting the clan invasion. This is all according to the Jihad Secrets: The Blake Documents sourcebook.

I would rather like to think that the wolverines left the inner sphere after building up supplys in there hit and run's and eventually found a new home, similiar to the original exodus

[CoffiNail]

Ashnod, on 04 February 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

I would rather like to think that the wolverines left the inner sphere after building up supplys in there hit and run's and eventually found a new home, similiar to the original exodus

Just FYI your unit link does not send to a exisiting Enjin site. You may want to fix that

[qultar]

Ashnod, on 04 February 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

I would rather like to think that the wolverines left the inner sphere after building up supplys in there hit and run's and eventually found a new home, similiar to the original exodus

and fits the lore better if they stayed in the IS then at lest one group know about the clans and that opens plot holes
also it makes it so they can come back some day in some way