94 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

hammerreborn, on 31 December 2012 - 09:35 AM, said:

I can't understand this post. There is no cat or anime girl picture to explain it to me.

And can we try and keep this away from how legit the method was? I mean it's not like I'm saying that new users shouldn't have issues or anything playing the game, and have admitted a tutorial is needed. Please try and keep the discussion based on the new user economy and the trial mech experience, or mech diversity. I know that means this will be lost in the forum in like an hour compared to troll posts like "this game is unfair" or the 1000000000000000th ECM ***** thread, but still, I'd like at least one constructive thread.

[Hammerfinn]

Thanks so much for this thread! Nice to see something other than anecdotally driven complaining.

[hammerreborn]

That is a very large hand or a very small girl Rain. But thanks for clarifying your post!

[hammerreborn]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1684503

More info from user Muon Neutrino.

I'll be compiling this tomorrow and adding more trials.

Thanks for all your help guys.

[hammerreborn]

Another set of 20 for raw data. Tabulated results now added to main post here

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1680369

[soarra]

1 thing this shows, Fang is useless.

[Bishop Steiner]

RainbowToh, on 31 December 2012 - 12:02 AM, said:

dude you have been playing mechwarrior all ur life. you cant really compare yourself to those who have never tried the game/franchise before.

OK, you have a point.. though I never had a problem when I first started with Mechwarrior either..... But, I still feel the new player experience and frustration will only be helped by a proper "in game" style tutorial, that covers those things "hands-on". I think that is even more needed than the matchmaking issues.

[soarra]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 January 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

OK, you have a point.. though I never had a problem when I first started with Mechwarrior either..... But, I still feel the new player experience and frustration will only be helped by a proper "in game" style tutorial, that covers those things "hands-on". I think that is even more needed than the matchmaking issues.

totally agree.

[One Medic Army]

I never played Mechwarrior before this game. I found it pretty easy to pick up.

[soarra]

One Medic Army, on 01 January 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

I never played Mechwarrior before this game. I found it pretty easy to pick up.

i played a little of 3 and 4 but just pve parts.. Took me a few games to figure it out but nothing major.
I think a lot of people are used to the regular fps model compared to this or WOT.

[hammerreborn]

Chassis and class breakdowns up. And as requested before can we not discuss how easy each of us found the game to be? Every new players experience is going to be different, and is coming into the game with varied backgrounds in gaming.

Also, something I forgot to note: As before, EVERY SINGLE MATCH THAT HAD A DC/AFK/NOT CONNECTED DECIDED THE WINNER

Edited by hammerreborn, 01 January 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[soarra]

Again looks like all 3 of us had the same experience.. Very similar data. I do see less and less stalkers than i did when they first came out, so im sure those numbers will drop.
It would be really nice if they Listed "T" next to trial mechs.
That could turn out to be a bad idea but some of us dont mind helping new players out, and knowing whos new would be nice.

[hammerreborn]

I'm not so sure how much stalkers will drop. While their numbers may be inflated somewhat by the current trial (3F barely edges out the 5M), the only thing keeping the Atlas up is the D-DC (59% of the chassis). Current assault users clearly are not going to be shifting to the Awesome.

And as expected, ECM accounts for just 17% overall (nearly identical to my first trial). And the enlightening thing about it is how low the commando and cicada are (with all the complaints about ECM on the board). And there are obvious reasons for that of course, the commando dies in a single solid alpha, and the cicada has no streaks.

ECM breakdown is as follows:

With a total of 101 (going to round down to 100 for easier percentages) ECM mechs seen:

32% are Ravens
12% are Commandos
8% are Cicadas
49% are Fatlases


Other observations:

-Anyone who says this game is lightwarrior online should be laughed at.

-ECM isn't as numerous as people believe it is, although if you look at the raw data the perception is most likely due to clear premades running full ECM setups (spread amoung the 1 and 0 ECM matches are 3 and 4 ECM ones). And as it is more likely if you are running in a PUG to be paired against a premade than with (math + new mech experience trials) they might run against these groups more often by poor luck.

-ECM may possibly be the only thing keeping lights alive in terms of use (1/3 of all lights are the Raven 3L, and 2/3 are Ravens, boosted by trials or more likely people trying to master the 3L), and is completely hampering diversity in the class

-Mediums are seen by the community to be not worth taking (it should also be noted that most of the 4Gs seen were of the founder variety, especially in my 2nd trial set)

-Awesomes are sad....so very very sad, and seeing one in battle is like seeing a unicorn

Edited by hammerreborn, 01 January 2013 - 07:39 PM.

[soarra]

hammerreborn, on 01 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

I'm not so sure how much stalkers will drop. While their numbers may be inflated somewhat by the current trial (3F barely edges out the 5M), the only thing keeping the Atlas up is the D-DC (59% of the chassis). Current assault users clearly are not going to be shifting to the Awesome.

And as expected, ECM accounts for just 17% overall (nearly identical to my first trial). And the enlightening thing about it is how low the commando and cicada are (with all the complaints about ECM on the board). And there are obvious reasons for that of course, the commando dies in a single solid alpha, and the cicada has no streaks.

ECM breakdown is as follows:

With a total of 101 (going to round down to 100 for easier percentages) ECM mechs seen:

32% are Ravens
12% are Commandos
8% are Cicadas
49% are Fatlases


Other observations:

-Anyone who says this game is lightwarrior online should be laughed at.

-ECM isn't as numerous as people believe it is, although if you look at the raw data the perception is most likely due to clear premades running full ECM setups (spread amoung the 1 and 0 ECM matches are 3 and 4 ECM ones). And as it is more likely if you are running in a PUG to be paired against a premade than with (math + new mech experience trials) they might run against these groups more often by poor luck.

-ECM may possibly be the only thing keeping lights alive in terms of use (1/3 of all lights are the Raven 3L, and 2/3 are Ravens, boosted by trials or more likely people trying to master the 3L), and is completely hampering diversity in the class

-Mediums are seen by the community to be not worth taking (it should also be noted that most of the 4Gs seen were of the founder variety, especially in my 2nd trial set)

-Awesomes are sad....so very very sad, and seeing one in battle is like seeing a unicorn

i get all happy when i see an awesome, then sad when hes dead in 30 seconds due to his giant Center Torso.

once the netcode is fixed and collision is back in i think you will see a major decline in lights, with the exception of the really good ones.

Edited by soarra, 01 January 2013 - 07:40 PM.

[hammerreborn]

soarra, on 01 January 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

i get all happy when i see an awesome, then sad when hes dead in 30 seconds due to his giant Center Torso.

once the netcode is fixed and collision is back in i think you will see a major decline in lights, with the exception of the really good ones.

That's what worries me. It's going to be a mass extinction of lights, and maybe even mediums as the 9-D is one of the speedier builds (and one of the most used mediums).

[MuonNeutrino]

hammerreborn, on 01 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Other observations:

-Anyone who says this game is lightwarrior online should be laughed at.

I think part of the 'lightwarrior online' thing isn't so much how *many* lights there are, as it is how disproportionately large of an impact that the lights that *are* there have. There might only be 17% lights on average, but when three raven 3Ls rounding a corner toward you is at least as scary as three (non-ecm) atlases doing the same thing, they stick out in your memory just a bit more.

Quote

-ECM isn't as numerous as people believe it is, although if you look at the raw data the perception is most likely due to clear premades running full ECM setups (spread amoung the 1 and 0 ECM matches are 3 and 4 ECM ones). And as it is more likely if you are running in a PUG to be paired against a premade than with (math + new mech experience trials) they might run against these groups more often by poor luck.

I think part of the perception of ECM's ubiquity might also be that, like lights, it has an impact all out of proportion to its numbers. It only takes 1 ECM mech in a match (12.5%) to have a massive effect on the ability of the opposing team to coordinate fire, use missiles, etc. And that '1 ECM' seems to be pretty common - you made me curious, so I went back and added a tally of ECM mechs per round to my spreadsheet, and out of 27 matches, 18 of them had at least one ECM on my team. And that's even *with* my being on the wrong side of the 'are you more likely to be teamed up with or fighting against a premade' thing. When a hypothetical opposing team is facing ECM in 2/3rds of matches, I think 'ECM is everywhere' is actually a fairly reasonable impression to come out with.

Quote

-Mediums are seen by the community to be not worth taking (it should also be noted that most of the 4Gs seen were of the founder variety, especially in my 2nd trial set)

Which makes me sad, as my centurion is my favorite mech. Hopefully adding new mediums like the trebuchet and blackjack can bring some life back to the class - you've got to admit that the current selection of mediums is pretty limited, given that the cicada and centurion are so unpopular.

[hammerreborn]

MuonNeutrino, on 01 January 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

I think part of the perception of ECM's ubiquity might also be that, like lights, it has an impact all out of proportion to its numbers. It only takes 1 ECM mech in a match (12.5%) to have a massive effect on the ability of the opposing team to coordinate fire, use missiles, etc. And that '1 ECM' seems to be pretty common - you made me curious, so I went back and added a tally of ECM mechs per round to my spreadsheet, and out of 27 matches, 18 of them had at least one ECM on my team. And that's even *with* my being on the wrong side of the 'are you more likely to be teamed up with or fighting against a premade' thing. When a hypothetical opposing team is facing ECM in 2/3rds of matches, I think 'ECM is everywhere' is actually a fairly reasonable impression to come out with.

Maybe. I also wonder how much effect premades had on our numbers. Since we don't know how the matchmaker works, I'm curious if they find the premade and 4 others, then match to them (which could mean our assault heavy trials are actually based on assault heavy premades rampaging about), rather than just pooling two teams together and seeing what works.

Though the ECM is everywhere claim isn't that you see it in a majority of matches, and since over a 3rd of lights are running ECM at the moment it's fairly likely if you see a light you'll see ECM, is that ECM is overwhelming in each match, which I just don't believe is true, from our data and anecdotal experience. There are rough games where you see Atlaswarrior online, but with the high number of stalkers and catas/cataphracts running around, there just isn't a lot of room for ECM to BE on the other team.

Let's look at my 2nd set of data. In 20 matches, there were 44 assaults, 35 lights, and 28 mediums. That's on average 2 Atlases, 1 medium, and 1 light, with a 2nd light and medium every other match.

That's potentially 4-6 ECM mechs a match. The light is nearly guarenteed to be a raven, but you're about as likely to get a trial as the 3L (so in that two light match it's likely to just be a 2x/4x and a 3L). The cicada is nearly non-existant, so that medium slot is probably not that, and the assaults are split evenly between stalkers and the D-DC. So on average you're likely to only run into at most 2 ECM mechs a match on the opposite side, a raven, and a D-DC.

I....don't really have a problem with that. I have a problem with the fact that lights are nearly exclusively ravens, that needs to change, but having a D-DC a match doesn't really upset me all too much.

Quote

Which makes me sad, as my centurion is my favorite mech. Hopefully adding new mediums like the trebuchet and blackjack can bring some life back to the class - you've got to admit that the current selection of mediums is pretty limited, given that the cicada and centurion are so unpopular.

I hope so, though I don't see people taking the trebuchet over the catapult or stalker in the long run (after the initial novelty wears off). Probably the stalker, as most Catapults seem to be running K2s thundercats and guasscats rather than pure missle boats, although there are plenty of A1 SRM6ers.

The biggest bludgeons to mediums came when the cadet bonus was added and R&R was removed. There's just no reason to take them when you know you're going to be facing multiple assaults nearly guarenteed.

[Dimento Graven]

My own non-tracked anectdotal experience varies greatly from your tracked info.

I think I'll have to actually sit down and track it.

Keep in mind my perspective: for the past week or so I've been playing, almost exclusively, ECM lights/mediums, and upwards 50% of those battles were solo pug experiences.

I would say a large portion of my matches, at least a third, I was probably the only ECM 'mech on my team. I would say that in at least half the matches, the enemy team had at least two, and in at least 25 percent of the matches, they had as many as 4, if not more.

The pug vs. premade ratios I couldn't tell you though premades seemed to be present in most matches, maybe 2/3'ds but this is admitedly a guess based on observations of how well the enemy seemed to be coordinating its attacks.

Of the matches I played in my light and medium ECM 'mechs, I can tell you that when you do well in an ECM 'mech you will be doing VERY well, and when you do poorly, it will be painfull.

My most painfull losses in my ECM 'mech is when I would be 'out ECM'd', having to fight against 2 or 3 enemies, with 2 or 3 enemy ECM's swamping me.

My best games were not from my ECM but from very obvious panic of target 'mechs once they saw my Commando 2D, or Raven 3L, or heck even the Cicada with its ONE ER PPC bearing down on them.

In one extremely bizarre match I ended up getting 6 kills before finally taking enough splash damage in my Commando to be killed. I had 8 rounds of SSRM ammo, and I fully expected to kill that Atlas and Stalker...

[Vassago Rain]

hammerreborn, on 01 January 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

I'm not so sure how much stalkers will drop. While their numbers may be inflated somewhat by the current trial (3F barely edges out the 5M), the only thing keeping the Atlas up is the D-DC (59% of the chassis). Current assault users clearly are not going to be shifting to the Awesome.

And as expected, ECM accounts for just 17% overall (nearly identical to my first trial). And the enlightening thing about it is how low the commando and cicada are (with all the complaints about ECM on the board). And there are obvious reasons for that of course, the commando dies in a single solid alpha, and the cicada has no streaks.

ECM breakdown is as follows:

With a total of 101 (going to round down to 100 for easier percentages) ECM mechs seen:

32% are Ravens
12% are Commandos
8% are Cicadas
49% are Fatlases


Other observations:

-Anyone who says this game is lightwarrior online should be laughed at.

-ECM isn't as numerous as people believe it is, although if you look at the raw data the perception is most likely due to clear premades running full ECM setups (spread amoung the 1 and 0 ECM matches are 3 and 4 ECM ones). And as it is more likely if you are running in a PUG to be paired against a premade than with (math + new mech experience trials) they might run against these groups more often by poor luck.

-ECM may possibly be the only thing keeping lights alive in terms of use (1/3 of all lights are the Raven 3L, and 2/3 are Ravens, boosted by trials or more likely people trying to master the 3L), and is completely hampering diversity in the class

-Mediums are seen by the community to be not worth taking (it should also be noted that most of the 4Gs seen were of the founder variety, especially in my 2nd trial set)

-Awesomes are sad....so very very sad, and seeing one in battle is like seeing a unicorn

We have three regular awesome drivers in all of kong. It feels like a big occasion whenever they drop together.

[Dimento Graven]

First match I played after the patch this afternoon.

I wasn't able to log it appropriately I wasn't set up for it, but:

I was in my Raven 3L. I was one of two ECM 'mechs on my team (the other being a Commando 2D). The opposing team didn't seem to have ANY ECM at all.

It was a Conquest match, we won through "death". I ranked #2, 290 damage, 802 experience, 124,416 cBill after premium, with 1,202 total exp after premium bonus.

The enemy team had 3 Hunchbacks, a dragon, and a K2. I'm not sure what the 6th 'mech was, it apparently died somewhere where I wasn't, and the enemy team had TWO disco's.

My team had an Atlas of some sort, at least one Catapault, the Commando, and I'm not sure what else (I wasn't paying attention).

So... I think the two discos had more of an effect than our ECM since the first half of the battle the Commando and I were together. Anyway, just my quick post patch note.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 02 January 2013 - 12:32 PM.