317 replies to this topic

[DocBach]

HurlockHolmes, on 05 January 2013 - 05:07 PM, said:

If you haven't already, post this in the suggestion forums too. (Though I am sure it will get more attention here, I am fairly certain pgi doesn't give a **** about what is posted in the general forums.)

good idea,

http://mwomercs.com/...mation-warfare/

[semalferuzA]

Dudeman3k, on 05 January 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Opinions aside, whether ECM is over powered, Slightly over powered, or completely balanced, Doc has a undeniable point.

"ECM is mission critical for success in competitive play."

In other words, it is mandatory to have it in all matches (PuG and Competitive alike)... and that really limits what you can bring to the field. It Kills motivation to purchase anything else... and PGI needs all the money it can get.

If anything, that should be a giant red flag for the DEVs.

Needing ECM on a competitive team and having to put it on 8 mechs are two different things. What limits the field of mechs is min-maxing and no tonnage limits. Why bring a medium when you can bring a heavy or assault? Why bring an Awesome when Stalkers and Atlases are straight up better? The Jenner is the only mech I can think of that is relegated to the sidelines strictly because of ECM.

Edit; And pugs can get away with 0 ECM. You just need to realize how to play without it.

Edited by semalferuzA, 05 January 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[Livebait]

I think this is excellent post and if half of what was pointed out by DocBach was implemented the game would become very interesting. You might even see some different mech builds for a change. Good post. PGI please read and think on it.

[Dudeman3k]

semalferuzA, on 05 January 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Needing ECM on a competitive team and having to put it on 8 mechs are two different things. What limits the field of mechs is min-maxing and no tonnage limits. Why bring a medium when you can bring a heavy or assault? Why bring an Awesome when Stalkers and Atlases are straight up better? The Jenner is the only mech I can think of that is relegated to the sidelines strictly because of ECM.

Edit; And pugs can get away with 0 ECM. You just need to realize how to play without it.

you forgot to add "why bring a medium vs. a heavy or assault, and does the assault have ECM"... that does get put into the equation. When was the last time someone said "who's got BAP?"... lol

again, thats another red flag.

[semalferuzA]

Dudeman3k, on 05 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

you forgot to add "why bring a medium vs. a heavy or assault, and does the assault have ECM"... that does get put into the equation. When was the last time someone said "who's got BAP?"... lol

again, thats another red flag.

You can bring Stalkers, Cataphracts, Catapults. Which of those have ECM?

[Trauglodyte]

Again, LRMs and Streaks were the primary problem before ECM came in. Then they gave us ECM that nuked LRMs and Streaks BUT it made it so the game was damned near broken if you didn't have as much, or more, ECM then the opposing teams. The 8v8 players ended up getting frustrated because it was a mix of 8 mechs split between Atlas D-DCs and Raven 3Ls. Pugs are getting stomped by premades featuring quite a lot of ECM or other PUG groups that bring ECM. Now, if you boil it down, ECM wouldn't be a problem if counters were readily accessible, but then that would put us back at the problem of OP LRMs. And if you straight up just nerf ECM, we're (again) back to sitting behind cover because of OP LRMs.

Does ANYONE see the predicament we're in? ECM is a hinderence to regular game play because of its many features that affect the matches. BUT, it primarily protects you from LRMs which, btw, were made that much worse by the 6 missile hard point Stalker (if you've never been rained down by a pure LRM Stalker, it is something that harrows the very soul). PGI need to focus in on bringing LRMs into normal parameters of all of the other weapons in game. THEN they can fix ECM by taking back some of the non-canon features that were added. At that point, you can buff BAP a little bit, take TAG back to 450m, and boost NARC to have some sort of functionality that merits the 3 tons launcher and 8 shots per ton.

[Dudeman3k]

semalferuzA, on 05 January 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

You can bring Stalkers, Cataphracts, Catapults. Which of those have ECM?

lol, see. does it have ECM?? NO?!?! dont drop in it. Get a D-DC, or an 3L.

as said above, thats how 8's were being dropped, bring anything else and you lost. ECM is too big of an advantage NOT to have. like the Dual Gausscat's back before they were glass. Impossible to de-fang, and total cheese build. was used EVERY match.... now its ECM. team with most ECM wins. Cheese builds, or cookie cutter builds. if you dont have'em your not being competitive.

[semalferuzA]

Dudeman3k, on 05 January 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

lol, see. does it have ECM?? NO?!?! dont drop in it. Get a D-DC, or an 3L.

as said above, thats how 8's were being dropped, bring anything else and you lost. ECM is too big of an advantage NOT to have. like the Dual Gausscat's back before they were glass. Impossible to de-fang, and total cheese build. was used EVERY match.... now its ECM. team with most ECM wins. Cheese builds, or cookie cutter builds. if you dont have'em your not being competitive.

Get your 8 3L+D-DC together and we can play some 8's.

[DocBach]

Dudeman3k, on 05 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

you forgot to add "why bring a medium vs. a heavy or assault, and does the assault have ECM"... that does get put into the equation. When was the last time someone said "who's got BAP?"... lol

again, thats another red flag.

I remember when Narc came out and everyone thought it'd work like it did in the board game, or at least in the other MechWarriors (which at least in MW2 was completely wrong, in that game Narc made it so you ALWAYS had a lock, no matter where your reticule was pointed) and everyone would announce that they would be narcing targets for fire - until they realized it did nothing a TAG laser didn't do for about five extra tons.

[F lan Ker]

S!

Implementation of things seem odd at times, like they want too much in and can not decide how to make it work. Talking about "Mech sim" or with aspects of simming yet making it more and more like a regular FPS with big machines. Whatever PGI's plan is they better have a good plan how and when to do stuff. As of now MWO is more a FPS with BT elements than a BT Mech sim.

[DocBach]

"The thinking man's shooter"

is a banner ad I get a lot on the side of websites. Right now the amount of thinking you have to do to be competitive is "Do I take my Atlas, or do I take my Raven?"

[Koniving]

Earlier someone said every mech has a viable role to fill.

Someone tell me this: What role does the Commando 1-B fill? What role does the Raven 2x (the non jump-jet, non-ballistic, 1 missile variant) fill? How often do you see them? What possible use can they have? Because of ECM they have been stuffed into boxes to collect dust. These 'Mechs never get fielded unless they are forced to use them through the trial program.

I still vouch for one of my many previous statements: Had ECM been given to them instead of the most missile-heavy variants of the Atlas, Commando and Raven then we probably could cut half the complaints about ECM in half.

I encourage those just joining to check out pages 1, 8, 10, 11, and 12.

[Trauglodyte]

The unfortunate thing for the Raven is that the 3L in both TT and as a stock mech in MWO comes with BAP and ECM. If it weren't for the stupidity of Streaks and the extreme speed that the devs have allowed it to have (good lord, it is +43% faster than TT without the Speed Tweak), nobody would have an issue with it. And, as you mentioned, the triple Streak Commando is a beast because the Net Code makes it hard as Hell to hit and you can't avoid the damage.

I understood them giving ECM to the CDA-3M as the 3G, the actual TT bug with BAP, was the only one designed close enough to be an EWO mech, but it was too similar to the 3C and I guess that they wanted to add in some differentiation. /shrug Would have been nice to have a jump capable Cicada, though.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 06 January 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[Koniving]

Speaking of streaks, I was playing MWO yesterday and wish I was recording. Remember the "ferret" issue I mentioned before where if they miss they circle the enemy up to 5 times and just explode doing damage? It happened on seven different shots in a single match. My score with an ECM commando was incredible. ....to the point of being ridiculous. I outdid the two DDC Atlas 'Mechs on my team. When I go to play him again today or tomorrow I'll be recording to catch those moments.

On a separate note, for those who are noticing certain issues with the game, I stumbled upon this thread. I tested it and it is true.

http://mwomercs.com/...should-be-same/

[DocBach]

Another thing that really gets me worried about fixing Streaks and LRMs individually is the upcoming Clan invasion. They've "fixed" so many weapons with nerfs to balance it against itself and other Inner Sphere tech, when in reality alot of it (like the Gauss rifle) was meant to balance against Clan tech. Streak missiles don't need a nerf, they need a fix, or what we've got going on with the Ravens won't be nearly as bad as what we'll have against the Koshi going 160kph with ECM and massed Streak SRM-6s

[Solis Obscuri]

DocBach, on 06 January 2013 - 12:13 AM, said:

"The thinking man's shooter"

is a banner ad I get a lot on the side of websites. Right now the amount of thinking you have to do to be competitive is "Do I take my Atlas, or do I take my Raven?"

Yeah, that's kinda how I'm feeling these days...

[Trauglodyte]

Food for thought: What would happen if, as an ECM carrier, you took two systems? If someone came up with their ECM in jamming mode, as you have two would you still maintain your ability to block it?

[SavageTavis]

What are all these things? Can you use them with trial mechs? thanks.

[DocBach]

Asking an abridged version of the OP for the Ask the Devs.

[pesco]

I keep feeling like PGI's preparation for their attempt to make a Mechwarrior game faithful to Battletech was to play one round of the tabletop and go "yeah it has Mechs in it" and then code something with Mechs.

Along the way they put some numbers in there that they read in the book.

Edited by pesco, 09 January 2013 - 05:08 AM.