20 replies to this topic

[Woogoose]

It didn't help our opposition a whole bunch here...

[Mister Haha]

cool story

why do you include a picture of your face on your video?

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

For some people, whining about ECM is a full time job.

[Codejack]

There is a reason ad hominem is a fallacy.

[Joseph Mallan]

I didn't say that.

[DocBach]

Is that an 8 man, or a 4 man group? How much ECM did you guys have, ect ect?

[Woogoose]

We were a 4-man group, none of us were carrying ECM although it looks like at least one PUG on our team was.

I think the use of ingame chat to spot their position was what allowed us to repel them so effectively.

[RickySpanish]

Getting the drop on you with ECM would have implied half a dozen Ravens coming round the corner of the hill instead of an Atlas standing there like a plumb. Not detracting from your victory, but the biggest complaint about ECM isn't two teams closing within 200m of each other, it's seeing "low signal" and then half a second later being shot in the face repeatedly by streaks from Ravens / Commandos that you have no hope of hitting. Frozen and RiverCity are the worst maps to face swarms of ECM lights imo, while Caustic is probably the best, because there's plenty of space for them to not be able to escape to if things go sour. They also tend to overheat and stand still like tiny little streak pinatas.

Edited by RickySpanish, 31 December 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

Sure, hardcountering lock on weapons is not op at all.

[Scar]

I see only the bunch of the not very smart pilots - who's rushing to your position. And yeah - your team has HAD ECM too.

The really potent and battleworthy units are fighting in the completely different way. And they're using ECM much more widely and wisely.

[topgun505]

It's all about the context. And the OP did not (initially) provide it.

ECM is NOT a problem, generally speaking, in 4-man groups.

It typically is only massively abused in 8-man's because you can gear the whole team around the concept and have sufficient numbers to pull it off successfully. You can try to do the same thing in 4-mans but 2 Raven + 2 Atlas are not as effective thus you don't see many people try it.

But this thread is in no way proof that ECM is not a problem. Sorry OP. Try again.

[Krazyjim]

Kaspirikay, on 31 December 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

Sure, hardcountering SSRMs is not op at all.

FTFY
LRMs can still be manually fired, and work pretty well might I add.

[Prat]

As has been stated, the issue with ECM is the fact that the mechs using it, can Streak the crap outta you and you can only hit back with direct fire weapons. That straight out obsoletes EVERY other light that doesn't have ECM.
We're back to essentially having a Streak cat except with lag shield (2x Coms)

(I'll be honest, in most of my Mediums and pretty much all Heavies and Assaults I haven't really had an issue with ECM)

I have some other slight gripes about it, but this is the one that I find most annoying.

[MuonNeutrino]

Krazyjim, on 31 December 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

FTFY
LRMs can still be manually fired, and work pretty well might I add.

Ba-whut? I don't think I've *ever* seen dumb-fired LRMs hit something or been hit by them myself, at least not in any worthwhile numbers (taking a stray missile or two is barely noticable). They're completely useless against moving targets, and even the extremely slow acceleration of a stationary assault mech is enough to move the couple mech lengths required to evade if the pilot doesn't completely fail to notice them coming. And their spread when dumbfired is quite large, to boot - I don't think they'd get very many hits even if the target just stood there and took it.

Prat, on 31 December 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

As has been stated, the issue with ECM is the fact that the mechs using it, can Streak the crap outta you and you can only hit back with direct fire weapons.

Yup. Combine that with the lagshield and you get the real reason ECM is so good.

I had a PUG game yesterday where a unit of 4 ECM ravens rushed us through the tunnel on frozen city. They ignored the cap and instead barreled right into us and proceeded to single-handedly rip the entire team (which was staying together in an unusually coordinated fashion) to shreds one at a time since our lights consisted of 2 jenners, a non-ECM raven, and an ECM commando who was their first target and died in less than 10 seconds. By the time the other 4 members of their team showed up there were only two crippled heavies left on our side. I had managed to heavily damage one of the ravens with my SRMs, the other three were essentially untouched.

ECM in moderate numbers in the hands of relatively uncoordinated PUGs is only slightly op (but still fairly clearly so, IMO). ECM in the hands of lagshield-abusing coordinated groups of streak-equipped lights is downright game-breaking.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 31 December 2012 - 11:26 AM.

[p00k]

Woogoose, on 31 December 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

It didn't help our opposition a whole bunch here...

good for you. still means nothing. as pretty much everyone in this thread has said.

[Greyfyl]

This one time at band camp me and buddies totally pwned some newbs in ecm mechs.


Pointless post is pointless.

Edited by Greyfyl, 31 December 2012 - 11:46 AM.

[Quinid]

MuonNeutrino, on 31 December 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

Ba-whut? I don't think I've *ever* seen dumb-fired LRMs hit something or been hit by them myself, at least not in any worthwhile numbers (taking a stray missile or two is barely noticable). They're completely useless against moving targets, and even the extremely slow acceleration of a stationary assault mech is enough to move the couple mech lengths required to evade if the pilot doesn't completely fail to notice them coming. And their spread when dumbfired is quite large, to boot - I don't think they'd get very many hits even if the target just stood there and took it.



Yup. Combine that with the lagshield and you get the real reason ECM is so good.

I had a PUG game yesterday where a unit of 4 ECM ravens rushed us through the tunnel on frozen city. They ignored the cap and instead barreled right into us and proceeded to single-handedly rip the entire team (which was staying together in an unusually coordinated fashion) to shreds one at a time since our lights consisted of 2 jenners, a non-ECM raven, and an ECM commando who was their first target and died in less than 10 seconds. By the time the other 4 members of their team showed up there were only two crippled heavies left on our side. I had managed to heavily damage one of the ravens with my SRMs, the other three were essentially untouched.

ECM in moderate numbers in the hands of relatively uncoordinated PUGs is only slightly op (but still fairly clearly so, IMO). ECM in the hands of lagshield-abusing coordinated groups of streak-equipped lights is downright game-breaking.

LOL that was our Sunday Night Shenanigans called S0d0my by Ravens. We were just screwing around and didn't think it would be that effective. And we didn't kill that commando because he had ecm. We had one rule. Once u see a commando, drop what you are doing, yell "commando!" and ignore everything but the commando. We just hate commandos.

Edited by Quinid, 31 December 2012 - 01:11 PM.

[Lawrence Elsa]

I will say that some changes need to be done. Having spotters can make LRMS more than dead weight, but there might need to be a few tweaks since it does cloak the whole team and take 10 seconds for tag to lock on to someone... but is lost as soon as you lose line of sight.

I think the biggest complaints come from ECM ravens that lag bad enough to make you lead your shots with lasers, but the devs are planning on bringing back knockdown, and fixing their bulky net code; so no more lag-sheilds and rubber-banding for ECM ravens.

seriously, if there was a whole team on the 8 man servers that just used ravens, they'd win simply because the combination of fast moving and ECM calculating would be enough to cause everyone to lag.
and if they lost, it would only be because they lagged so bad that they disconnected

BUT like I said, ECM doesn't break the game (even if it makes LRMs useless in 8 man games) but I do think they can tone it down a notch

[Trauglodyte]

Unfortunately, the vid is kind of invalidated as you don't know if they had a premade. Plus, you didn't list the mech composition of your 8 vs their 8, etc. On top of that, you're in Caldera which has an innate heat imbalance which hinders some mech builds.

[Davers]

My problem with ECM is that 30,000 GXP (and millions of CBills) worth of modules are rendered useless by one trial Raven 3L.

Considering that a Base Capture module costs 15000 GXP (500-600 matches to get) and 6 million Cbills (more than a lot of mechs!) gives a +15% bonus to capture bases. Compare that to ECM in cost, ease to get, and usefulness.