116 replies to this topic

[Tickdoff Tank]

Wraith05, on 01 January 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Neither are you. Your picture can only prove 2 things:

1 you lost
2 the matchmaker put 8 founders on 1 team.

All the founder tag means is they payed to enter closed beta, not that they are automatically on a team. I'm a founder and I pug all the time.

You can not draw any inference from the lack of a Founder Tag. They can be turned off. If it is turned off then there is no way to know if the person was a Founder, and I see mnay people that excel at this game that do not have a Founder Tag.

Even if they *do* have a Founder Tag, that confers no advantage other than the possibility that they have more time in-game than others.

[soarra]

if it helps ive seen some really bad founder players..

[Wraith05]

Greyfyl, on 01 January 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

If that is all you got out of that picture then you aren't very bright. It's a common sight among those of us that pug. Once 2 or 3 or maybe even 4 of your teammates has rushed out into the oncoming group of veteran players (regardless of premade or not) they die often before I've even gotten my fatlas into position. At this point it's already over. If it is a premade you will be lucky to get more than 200 damage done before the blob gets you, unless of course you are in a faster mech and can maybe find a lone wolf or 2 on the other team that have wandered off from the blob.

Hell, that picture isn't actually all that bad for your common pug, I had a group today that had 4 players that did under 100 damage combined (and no they were not afk). Regardless of whether or not the picture he put in was a premade or not - at the end of the day, it sometimes seems as if the MM that doesn't even exist somehow finds a way to put as many of the newer players as possible onto one side. I can't explain it, but it happens way more often than mere coincidence would suggest.

Considering the topic for this thread was on pugs coming across groups as a problem, his picture doesn't prove anything for the conversation. Can you look at it and conclude one side was a premade? Sure you can but it doesn't mean it is the truth.

As for all you listed, that IS the pug problem. It's not groups, not most of the time anyway, It is exactly what you described.

Though you are right, the picture paints the pug problem as rather clear in that the winning team only killed 6 which means a disconnect, suicide, or teamkill by the losing team. And that 1 person didnt' contribute at all. So essentially the losing team went into battle with 6 mechs vs 8 and people are shocked they lost so bad? I can say team or not, the outcome would have been the same for the losing side.

[Orion Solitaire]

QuantumButler, on 01 January 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Nu uh man.

Whenever you get rolled 0 to 8 it's always a sync dropping 8man, they're the newest boogeymen.

Um....no, it is not always a sync'd 8 man team. A four man lance constantly picking up 4 different pugs can do this.

[PiemasterXL]

I will express my thoughts on this issue with an interpretative dance:

Spoiler

[Dirkdaring]

Have you also noticed 9 times out of 10 you start on the same side of every map when pugging?

Edited by Dirkdaring, 01 January 2013 - 02:32 PM.

[Orion Solitaire]

soarra, on 01 January 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

if it helps ive seen some really bad founder players..

Agreed...Founder means 'money'.

It does not mean; although it may imply:

1. Experience playing in the BT universe.
2. Experience with MW games.
3. Experience with MWO itself.
4. Grasp of team warfare mechanics.
5. Ability to effectivly use FPS skills.

For me, it personaly means a little of all of the above and my desire for this game to succeed wildly.

[Edited for spelling....stupid keyboard]

Edited by Orion Solitaire, 01 January 2013 - 02:34 PM.

[Ras Gearheart]

AoiNeko, on 01 January 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

and ... where's my jackpot reward ?

I figured I'd get a lot of grief from posting this topic. But most of the folks telling me it isn't an issue are probably PuG farmers who don't drop with less than a 4 man. The picture above is what was typical of this mornings action, I'd say 9 out of the 10 drops I played in. Maybe I was just real unlucky, but I'd say PuGing without at least a 2 or 4 man team is going to get you in a baaad match way too many times to be enjoyable. I don't mind losing, but losing over and over to teams like the one in the above example is extremely fustrating and discouraging. I never said I was an ACE player, but I'm not a bad one either, and I love the game mechanics of mechwarrior. But I can't always get with my friends to drop together... so why can't we have PuG v PuG matches? How hard would that be?

Anyway, I'm mainly venting I suppose. <TRASH TALK>I'm sure I'll be back soon, WITH FRIENDS, YOU PILES OF SPACE DEBRIS!! Most of you couldn't take down a one armed Centurian (and by one arm, I mean the left arm) without 3 lancemates to back your Zergite arses up!</TRASH TALK>

[soarra]

the last 20 matches i pugged , i won 15 of them. So your eithor really unlucky, im lucky or i did my part to help my team win.

[Wraith05]

Ras Gearheart, on 01 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

I figured I'd get a lot of grief from posting this topic. But most of the folks telling me it isn't an issue are probably PuG farmers who don't drop with less than a 4 man. The picture above is what was typical of this mornings action, I'd say 9 out of the 10 drops I played in. Maybe I was just real unlucky, but I'd say PuGing without at least a 2 or 4 man team is going to get you in a baaad match way too many times to be enjoyable. I don't mind losing, but losing over and over to teams like the one in the above example is extremely fustrating and discouraging. I never said I was an ACE player, but I'm not a bad one either, and I love the game mechanics of mechwarrior. But I can't always get with my friends to drop together... so why can't we have PuG v PuG matches? How hard would that be?

Anyway, I'm mainly venting I suppose. <TRASH TALK>I'm sure I'll be back soon, WITH FRIENDS, YOU PILES OF SPACE DEBRIS!! Most of you couldn't take down a one armed Centurian (and by one arm, I mean the left arm) without 3 lancemates to back your Zergite arses up!</TRASH TALK>

Hey ras, I'm not actually trying to give you grief at all I promise. These topics usually cause some heated arguments is all. I've played on all sides of the fence. Solo, 4 mans, and 8 mans (not synced). And from that I don't think that the solo's being queued with the 4 man groups is a problem. I also don't think coming across groups is as common as people make it out to be. Like I said I've been pugging, and asking and just speaking of todays games most i've found was 1 group of 3 and a lot of snarky replies like "I'm a one man group!".

In regards to that picture, as I've already stated that gives no proof it is a group, simply that one side had 8 founders on it (who didn't choose to hide their founder tags) while the other had 1 mech not participating and 1 mech teamkilled/DCed/Suicided. Which a even in a full pug vs pug match would usually end in a 0-8 defeat.

As for the solo queue I would be ok with it IF it could be garunteed that the 4 man queues wouldn't have wait times past 1-2 failed to find matches and that groups wouldn't just be going up against the same 2-3 enemy groups over and over. That is my fear of solo queue, I like to play as a team at times and I don't want to be forced to pug, same as you like to play solo and don't want to be forced to group.

edit: though I would rather wait to see if phase 3s matchmaker changes will cause closer matches regardless of groups/pugs in a match.

Edited by Wraith05, 01 January 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Ras Gearheart]

I hear you Wraith05. And by using that pic as an example, you're right. It isn't proof of grouping. The ratio of founders to non-founders in my matches is all I have to go on, so I am assuming the founders are in groups. If not, then matchmakers distribution of founders on teams needs some attention. I have also noticed what someone else brought up in an earlier post, that I think is interesting... I almost always seem to start on the same side of the map when I'm pugging.... odd, no?

[FrozenAnt]

AoiNeko, on 01 January 2013 - 01:33 PM, said:

and ... where's my jackpot reward ?

I am with you on this. People can argue all they want. Maybe some of you guys are lucky and some of us are non lucky. 30% of the times I get a really good game, score is 5-8 7-6 or something like that. then the other 60% are 1-8, 1-7, 2-8. I understand there are just better PUG players than me. I'm probably averagish. However, When I get steamrolled I don't know whether to be upset cause it was a 4 man... or be cool about it because it was just a better group of PUGS...
If they could somehow put that it was a 4 man, at least all the people on my PUG team would know " O damn, we need to try harder"

[Wraith05]

Ras Gearheart, on 01 January 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

I hear you Wraith05. And by using that pic as an example, you're right. It isn't proof of grouping. The ratio of founders to non-founders in my matches is all I have to go on, so I am assuming the founders are in groups. If not, then matchmakers distribution of founders on teams needs some attention. I have also noticed what someone else brought up in an earlier post, that I think is interesting... I almost always seem to start on the same side of the map when I'm pugging.... odd, no?

I can say in closed beta there use to be 1 side premades tended to drop on and 1 side the pugs tended to drop on. This was back when it was 8 mans mixed in. I now right before or soon after open beta though that trend was removed and at least from perspective being within a 4 man group at that time the sides of the match no longer mattered.

Not sure if they brought this back in or not.

[CoolLew]

I only PUG, and my team usually looses, sometimes terribly 0 to 8. I have never been on a winning team that went 8 and 0.

but that maybe because I suck and don't offer much to my team

[Greyfyl]

soarra, on 01 January 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

the last 20 matches i pugged , i won 15 of them. So your eithor really unlucky, im lucky or i did my part to help my team win.

While I don't believe this can't ever happen, I'm seeing too many people saying that they've won upwards of 75% while pugging. I highly doubt that this is happening.

[Ardem]

There is a really good reason why groups are sync dropping, whether it to be on the same team or against each other.

In 8 Man groups game are 5-6 atlas or stalker with huge OP builds and 2-3 ECM lights.

There is no room for mediums or heavies, and none of the 8 man drops play conquest. I tried multiple times only to see it only fail.

Like everyone, players want some fun and I want to run around in heavies and mediums you cannot do that in an 8 man group. It not about pug stomping or winning its about playing mech you like, and the game style you like.

So if you understood the state of 8 man play, you would understand why it not viable to play those mechs and play the game style of individual combat. Whether you like it or not 75% of the groups that drop in are 4 man groups if not 8 man groups, cause there is not that many playing 8v8, and definately none playing conquest 8v8 atm.

Also we do 8v8 sync drops when we have the numbers, to play each other so we can set similar tonnages to play the style of mechwarrior we love to play. But we do that only when we have the numbers.

"I make no apologies for sync dropping" to play a game to have some fun that I put money into. However I do hope I come up against my guys then on the same side, to me being on the same side is a failed sync, as it more fun and more bragging rights.

What happen when community warfare finally reaches us, are you going to say this game sucks as there is not room for pugs.

If so, I say your got that right! if your not joined a house or a merc unit, you really have no use in this game. This is not counterstrike, PGI needs to implement Community warfare ASAP, to stop this whining from PUGS about a community game

Edited by Ardem, 01 January 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[Feetwet]

Greyfyl, on 01 January 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

While I don't believe this can't ever happen, I'm seeing too many people saying that they've won upwards of 75% while pugging. I highly doubt that this is happening.

I pug exclusively and my record in about 250 matches is somewhere around 66-68% so I think it is possible. I primarily play in the morning CST on the weekends so this may be a factor. Prime time seems harder but not oppressively so.

As for the picture, I have been on teams with scores liked that. When you are facing organized focus fire you can be dropped before you even fire your second salvo.

S

Just did the math 110/156 or around 70%

Edited by Feetwet, 01 January 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[Zaptruder]

Ardem, on 01 January 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

If so, I say your got that right! if your not joined a house or a merc unit, you really have no use in this game. This is not counterstrike, PGI needs to implement Community warfare ASAP, to stop this whining from PUGS about a community game

This poster's opinions are his own and in no way represent the opinions of his unit.

Seriously, this kinda hard line stance doesn't really help the overall game/community environment. But having said that - the game is hands down better with team work and communication. Even if they had a PUG only queue where you couldn't be in teams... the experience playing the game in teams of any size is just vastly superior. Which is really designed as intended.

The solution is really to get those team work tools right into the game - lobbies and voice chat for all.

[Feetwet]

Really this whole thing is festering because we have no idea who is dropping together. If we could get an indication of who is together and who isn't a lot of these questions could be answered. Either there are not as many teams dropping as we think or there are and I am apparently awesome :-P

Puglife
S

[Ardem]

Zap is right they are 'my opinion' and never of the units.

But my hard line stance get harder and harder each time PGI bows to these whines of PUGS and change the game further and further away from mechwarrior and community warfare. I am tired of the game getting further and further away from it what it suppose to be, to please a segment of the community that doesn't put any money into it anyway.

I did not sign on for Mechwarrrior Online: CounterStrike, I signed on for the broader warfare.

It will never be the pugs that put the majority of the money into the game.

I make no apology for my hardline stance.