116 replies to this topic

[Greyfyl]

Moenrg, on 01 January 2013 - 08:59 PM, said:

This has to be a troll.

1) I've killed (and been killed by) founders hundreds of times, there's nothing magical about them. Their mechs aren't any better. Their setups use the same weapons as non-founders, so other than having that neat little (F) in their mech's type, their mechs are basically the same.

2) So what if you die? It's not like you lost the mech or the weapons permanently and have to grind up for weeks to get enough cbills to repurchase them. You still made cbills and gained experience, and (hopefully) learned something.

3) There is nothing preventing you from joining up with others on Teamspeak. Both 'Comstar' and 'No Guts, No Galaxy' servers always seem to have people on, and I haven't had any problems joining up with them.

So in a game where death really means nothing as you don't lose any material on death. Where the devs have said (repeatedly) this is a team game and good teams do better. You complain that 8 man teams are 'killing' you, perhaps MWO isn't the right game for you after all.

And once again you have completely missed the whole point. You aren't even in the ballpark. In order for this game to get a large enough playerbase to continue, pugging must be viable. End of story. This game has no PVE to grab additional sales from like MW2/3/4 - it has to succeed at PVP (obviously) and right now the most basic type of pvp (pugging) is for the most part a horrible experience.

Yes, some new players will like the game enough to come to the forums and find the TS info. But for every one new player that does that, how many are lost that won't ever come back? None of us know for sure, but if I wasn't a mechwarrior fan for 15 years I probably would have left long ago to be honest. I don't mind doing TS once in a while, but I don't want to HAVE TO GET INTO TS IN ORDER TO HAVE A FAIR CHANCE OF WINNING. Guess what - there are alot of people out there that feel the same way, whether you like it or not, whether you understand it or not.

I did 9 premades after I posted my 12 pug games - won 7 of 9. I will post the screenshots tomorrow for further discussion, getting late.

[Endbr1nger]

The issue is that pugging is viable. There is no conspiracy of pre-mades running around ruining every pug game.

I pug about 90% of my games, my k/d is 2.27 and I win more often than I lose (159/127). I am clearly no pro-player, but I always hold my own.

When I lose you know what I always notice? That I have done 2-3x as much damage as others on my team. I have lost games 1-8 where I have done more damage than the entire enemy team. There is nothing more frustrating than that.

The truth is, if you lose and you have done less than 200 damage, you are one of the main reasons you lost. You can cry all day about how life isn't fair, how the other team must be pre-mades, but the truth is if you cant do 200+ damage consistently than you are not really good enough to judge anyone else's skill. You can't tell if they are a pre-made or just zerging you because you are not good enough yet to know the difference.

When you look at the scoreboard and see people with less than 150 damage done on your team you have just played a game outnumbered, as those people can be counted on as afk. Stop basing your life around wins and just work to do more damage and get kills and you will have a lot more fun.

[JP Josh]

ya know synch droppin doesnt work out to well i play with the dmh guys and when their at 4 members by the time i get on i attempt to so far out of 30+ matches i got put into 12 matches with them..........9 of wich were on the enimys team and they made me priority target

case in point most pre mades that attempt to synch drop end up FIGHTING EACHOTHER IF THEY EVEN MANAGE TO GET PUT INTo THE SAME MATCH

[Vassago Rain]

Endbr1nger, on 01 January 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

The issue is that pugging is viable. There is no conspiracy of pre-mades running around ruining every pug game.

I pug about 90% of my games, my k/d is 2.27 and I win more often than I lose (159/127). I am clearly no pro-player, but I always hold my own.

When I lose you know what I always notice? That I have done 2-3x as much damage as others on my team. I have lost games 1-8 where I have done more damage than the entire enemy team. There is nothing more frustrating than that.

The truth is, if you lose and you have done less than 200 damage, you are one of the main reasons you lost. You can cry all day about how life isn't fair, how the other team must be pre-mades, but the truth is if you cant do 200+ damage consistently than you are not really good enough to judge anyone else's skill. You can't tell if they are a pre-made or just zerging you because you are not good enough yet to know the difference.

When you look at the scoreboard and see people with less than 150 damage done on your team you have just played a game outnumbered, as those people can be counted on as afk. Stop basing your life around wins and just work to do more damage and get kills and you will have a lot more fun.

It's not viable. It's so not viable, I've had people ask me to push the issue for a very long time.

When you solo, you do so knowing you'll have about a 90% chance of losing every game, no matter your own performance. Right now, making money isn't tied to winning, so you can make 100k from losses, if you're good enough at carrying.

[Elizander]

Not having this issue. My win rate is very satisfactory at 50% or higher

[Mxxpower]

Flapdrol, on 01 January 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Drop with a decent 4 group and you win 9/10 games. If you pug it's more of a lottery, sometimes you drop with decent players, sometimes you just get annihilated.

if you're in a 4 group and the enemy team has one as well you can have pretty good games, but it's very rare.

Yep..........................

No problems there...drop with a group and win 90% of the time, sounds fair to me. Fair for everyone..

I can still here the cries of "we have to drop against pugs because theres no team matchmaker "

IMHO - 4 man groups are for real life friends, not uber interweb biker clans that point to their "stats" to show how l33t they are in an internet game. Typical idiots that shy away from any challenge because it might hurt their fragile gamer ego's.

[p4r4g0n]

Joseph Mallan, on 01 January 2013 - 07:48 PM, said:

IF the solo PUGger invests nothing into the game... No he shouldn't have a say. Customers spend money, browsers don't. Simply put if you aren't paying me why should I listen to you? So you might spend some money?

I'm not sure why you quoted me in your comment unless you missed the fact that I was commenting on Ardem's presumption that only Founders spend money in MWO. Having said that, even those who freeload in-game and serve as fodder have a role in the game ecosystem and to keep that fodder available, they need to be kept interested enough to play for longer than 25 matches.

Feetwet, on 01 January 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

I go thru so many matches in a sitting it doesn't feel that bad...ugh, now I'm depressed.
S

Dang, now you're making me feel bad for telling you

In seriousness though, its not a bad win percentage for casuals, high latency handicappers or beginners. Unless you're looking to be competitive or participate in the e-peen stroking contests, just use it as a gauge to check on progress in performance.

[Gen Kumon]

Endbr1nger, on 01 January 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

The issue is that pugging is viable. There is no conspiracy of pre-mades running around ruining every pug game.

I pug about 90% of my games, my k/d is 2.27 and I win more often than I lose (159/127). I am clearly no pro-player, but I always hold my own.

When I lose you know what I always notice? That I have done 2-3x as much damage as others on my team. I have lost games 1-8 where I have done more damage than the entire enemy team. There is nothing more frustrating than that.

The truth is, if you lose and you have done less than 200 damage, you are one of the main reasons you lost. You can cry all day about how life isn't fair, how the other team must be pre-mades, but the truth is if you cant do 200+ damage consistently than you are not really good enough to judge anyone else's skill. You can't tell if they are a pre-made or just zerging you because you are not good enough yet to know the difference.

When you look at the scoreboard and see people with less than 150 damage done on your team you have just played a game outnumbered, as those people can be counted on as afk. Stop basing your life around wins and just work to do more damage and get kills and you will have a lot more fun.

THIS.

Basically, it's not that groups are overpowered. It's that so very many puggers are just plain awful, and they look around for anything to blame except themselves. When you see four or five people with 100 or less damage, that generally means they just blindly rushed in and got taken apart one at a time by the enemy. Or they're trying to use a joystick/play on a 5 year old non-gaming laptop. Or for some other reason, are just plain bad. If they can't manage to improve...or more likely, refuse to improve because they already think their awesome and it's just the cheating founders/premades fault they always lose...well, they should just stop playing. This is not the game for them.

So yeah. It's not 4 mans, or two 4 man teams simuldropping that's making you lose so much. It's your own team. And when you win? It's usually not your team...it's the other team being worse. This is the nature of ANY game that has randomized teams without any way of matching skill. Maybe the upcoming matchmaking changes will fix this. On the other hand, maybe not. Maybe you'll be just good enough to not play with the completely awful players...but not good enough to beat the average players. Only time will tell. Either way, stop blaming people who have nothing to do with it.

[Rotaugen]

I both pug and play on a team (the 7th merc onComstar). I can win while pugging, but win more on a team. What a huge surprise. 4 mans can lose to pugs too. There is a large roll of the dice on what 4 pugs you get. We've had games where one pug is Disconnected, and the other three do 1 to 60 damage before dying because they decided to go Rambo, even though we texted a plan. When I pug, I try to communicate, and the better Puggers will work together. We do 8 man drops when enough are online to do it, never try to sync drop. I would actually like to go up against another 4 of us that are in another dropship if we had two running, but we'd combine them unless we had 4 in one and 3 in another.

[Feetwet]

p4r4g0n, on 02 January 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

I'm not sure why you quoted me in your comment unless you missed the fact that I was commenting on Ardem's presumption that only Founders spend money in MWO. Having said that, even those who freeload in-game and serve as fodder have a role in the game ecosystem and to keep that fodder available, they need to be kept interested enough to play for longer than 25 matches.



Dang, now you're making me feel bad for telling you

In seriousness though, its not a bad win percentage for casuals, high latency handicappers or beginners. Unless you're looking to be competitive or participate in the e-peen stroking contests, just use it as a gauge to check on progress in performance.

Well I don't feel to bad, I run hbks almost exclusively and my k/d is slowly climbing towards 1. If I get there after the start I had in trials ill be happy.

I feel worse about the poor calculation. I'm supposed to do that professionally...jeez.

Edited by Feetwet, 02 January 2013 - 07:50 AM.

[MadPanda]

Endbr1nger, on 01 January 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

The issue is that pugging is viable. There is no conspiracy of pre-mades running around ruining every pug game.

I pug about 90% of my games, my k/d is 2.27 and I win more often than I lose (159/127). I am clearly no pro-player, but I always hold my own.

When I lose you know what I always notice? That I have done 2-3x as much damage as others on my team. I have lost games 1-8 where I have done more damage than the entire enemy team. There is nothing more frustrating than that.

The truth is, if you lose and you have done less than 200 damage, you are one of the main reasons you lost. You can cry all day about how life isn't fair, how the other team must be pre-mades, but the truth is if you cant do 200+ damage consistently than you are not really good enough to judge anyone else's skill. You can't tell if they are a pre-made or just zerging you because you are not good enough yet to know the difference.

When you look at the scoreboard and see people with less than 150 damage done on your team you have just played a game outnumbered, as those people can be counted on as afk. Stop basing your life around wins and just work to do more damage and get kills and you will have a lot more fun.

Completely agree. I would go as far as to say that people who consistently do under 200 damage in a game should be autobanned or moved in a queue of their own to play with the other bads.

[Gen Kumon]

MadPanda, on 02 January 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Completely agree. I would go as far as to say that people who consistently do under 200 damage in a game should be autobanned or moved in a queue of their own to play with the other bads.

Theoretically, that's what the ELO matchmaker will actually do. If it works right.

[Cryos420]

First off, no I wasn't Trolling, I was bringing up a major flaw in the game. I can pick up new COD or Battlefield and within 2 days be getting consistent kills and a positive score. Hell most games you can start getting decent score after 100+ games. I should know I've been playing them for 15 years.

[QuantumButler]

Gen Kumon, on 02 January 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Theoretically, that's what the ELO matchmaker will actually do. If it works right.

It won't work right.

[KinLuu]

Vassago Rain, on 01 January 2013 - 11:34 PM, said:

It's not viable. It's so not viable, I've had people ask me to push the issue for a very long time.

When you solo, you do so knowing you'll have about a 90% chance of losing every game, no matter your own performance. Right now, making money isn't tied to winning, so you can make 100k from losses, if you're good enough at carrying.

My experience with pugging is different.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Cryos420, on 02 January 2013 - 08:17 AM, said:

First off, no I wasn't Trolling, I was bringing up a major flaw in the game. I can pick up new COD or Battlefield and within 2 days be getting consistent kills and a positive score. Hell most games you can start getting decent score after 100+ games. I should know I've been playing them for 15 years.

But being that Battlefield is still a team based tactical game that works MUCH better if you play with a coordinated team. I'd lump BF and MW:O as more similar to one another than COD and BF in terms of successful gameplay.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 02 January 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Pando]

QuantumButler, on 01 January 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Nu uh man.

Whenever you get rolled 0 to 8 it's always a sync dropping 8man, they're the newest boogeymen.

I've often steam-rolled opposing teams that announce different organizations in chat. I often steam-roll the other team with my pug friends doing what they do best (dying alone, then telling the entire team that "we're all baddies".

Can't believe this is a topic in the first place.

[Voridan Atreides]

Another rage quiter??? Move along....

[Joseph Mallan]

Gen Kumon, on 02 January 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Theoretically, that's what the ELO matchmaker will actually do. If it works right.

Still don't understand how a lil band from the 70s will help this game... but if you insist.

[Kunae]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 January 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

Still don't understand how a lil band from the 70s will help this game... but if you insist.

You don't think this would help this game?



Who do you think you are... Bruce?

Edited by Kunae, 02 January 2013 - 09:04 AM.