209 replies to this topic

[Soy]

BerryChunks, on 05 January 2013 - 10:54 AM, said:

Use them. Track how many kills you have per day, or how fast you get killed in comparison to how fast you damage anyone. Then come back and tell us. I can tell you haven't used them and you're talking out your ***.

Clearly I haven't used LPLs to the point where I troll with them.

Yeah man clearly I'm talking out of my ***. Too many easy kills in this game to count. Stop crapping on weapons you don't like or don't utilize correctly. Never seen you in game before, but I've seen a lot of abbacus tinkering on the forum. It's starting to get obvious regarding forum warriors who talk a lot but don't actually get out there and try weapons. Every weapon is powerful in the right hands and the right situation. If you try hard and play smart you will put yourself into situations where your weapon layout will shine. This is like, basic stuff. Every weapon in the game, if used correctly, can be a great addition to your arsenal - not to mention meta knowledge.

[shintakie]

SpiralRazor, on 05 January 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

LPL is terribly Bad....thats not arguable...and Its not a in a vacuum. Ive used all of these weapons 100s and 100s of times.

LPL has a crap stat line, and that is all. Too much tonnage for too little range and way much heat per damage.


ERPPC is only good if you have maybe 1 of them...they are NO good in massed fire. They require cooling levels that are outside of what the Devs allow to be viable right now.

Flamers and small pulse lasers have no function right now.

And no, if i only have 1 Hardpoint its NOT going to be a PULSE weapon....It will be LL, ERL, or PPC, and thats that.

9/10, unless im building a tunnel fighter/building camper(city) im going to go MLas over MPlas. At an average ping of 33-35, i have no problems holding it on target for that extra .25 second of a duration.

Small pulse lasers have the advantage of havin the shortest beam time of all the energy weapons that use beams. Its for this that you can fairly effectively use them on smaller faster lights for quick bursts of damage all to one location. In my Cicada I can put 18 damage into basically any location I choose and be back behind a buildin before you can return fire.

Now outside of places where there's lots of cover SPL have no real purpose, but that's basically to be expected since the entire point of pulse weapons is that they lose heat efficiency for more pinpoint damage. In the open that heat efficiency is far more important.

[BerryChunks]

OneEyed Jack, on 02 January 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

I'm not arguing that LPL is a good weapon, because I don't think it is, overall. But your premise is flawed. LPL is 9 Heat for 10 Damage. ERLL is 10 Heat for 9 Damage. Of the two, I find LPL to be the better option. ERLL simply adds too much heat for a longer range that is rarely an issue. My reasoning is simply that the nature of a beam weapon makes them a poor choice for long ranges. Sure you can hit mechs at very long ranges but, unless you're both standing still, you're probably just blistering paint. Even a very good aim is going to have a very difficult time staying on target, let alone on a single location, for the entire beam length at those ranges if even one of the mechs is moving. If they're both moving, forget about it.


It scales down, rather than being a direct 1pt tick per 10 meters, and ends at 0 Damage at 0 meters, rather than the 1 Damage the post you're referring to would imply.


That's an issue with your own aim, rather than the quality of the weapon. When I first began playing, I preferred standard lasers for the longer firing time. Being able to drag the beam across the target make it easier to get a hit. However the effectiveness of a dragging hit is much reduced for being spread out across locations and partially wasted on terrain. As my aim has improved, I've come to love the MPL for the improved pinpoint damage. I can also maintain a standard beam on target better, getting overall better efficiency than MPL (less heat/tonnage), but it takes longer, making it less effective for snapshots or combining with ballistics. I'd probably love the LPL for the same reasons, but I'm put off by the tonnage.


As mentioned above and in other posts by several people, this is simply not true. You are simply stating your personal tastes as if they were objective analysis. Each of the weapons has a legitimate use.

ERLL's are tickle beams for shutting yourself down every half second.

SpiralRazor, on 05 January 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

LPL is terribly Bad....thats not arguable...and Its not a in a vacuum. Ive used all of these weapons 100s and 100s of times.

LPL has a crap stat line, and that is all. Too much tonnage for too little range and way much heat per damage.


ERPPC is only good if you have maybe 1 of them...they are NO good in massed fire. They require cooling levels that are outside of what the Devs allow to be viable right now.

Flamers and small pulse lasers have no function right now.

And no, if i only have 1 Hardpoint its NOT going to be a PULSE weapon....It will be LL, ERL, or PPC, and thats that.

9/10, unless im building a tunnel fighter/building camper(city) im going to go MLas over MPlas. At an average ping of 33-35, i have no problems holding it on target for that extra .25 second of a duration.

Because noone uses mass PPCs, like say, 6. /sarcasm.

[shintakie]

Soy, on 05 January 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

Clearly I haven't used LPLs to the point where I troll with them.

Yeah man clearly I'm talking out of my ***. Too many easy kills in this game to count. Stop crapping on weapons you don't like or don't utilize correctly. Never seen you in game before, but I've seen a lot of abbacus tinkering on the forum. It's starting to get obvious regarding forum warriors who talk a lot but don't actually get out there and try weapons. Every weapon is powerful in the right hands and the right situation. If you try hard and play smart you will put yourself into situations where your weapon layout will shine. This is like, basic stuff. Every weapon in the game, if used correctly, can be a great addition to your arsenal - not to mention meta knowledge.

For curiosity sake, why 2 LPL instead of 4 MPL if you seem to be fightin at optimal MPL range at all times anyway? The heat efficiency is only 2 less, but you get 4 more damage and save yourself 6 tons to toss on a more heatsinks.

Edit - whoa, why did I think LPL were 5 tons.

Edited by shintakie, 05 January 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[BerryChunks]

Soy, on 05 January 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

Clearly I haven't used LPLs to the point where I troll with them.

Yeah man clearly I'm talking out of my ***. Too many easy kills in this game to count. Stop crapping on weapons you don't like or don't utilize correctly. Never seen you in game before, but I've seen a lot of abbacus tinkering on the forum. It's starting to get obvious regarding forum warriors who talk a lot but don't actually get out there and try weapons. Every weapon is powerful in the right hands and the right situation. If you try hard and play smart you will put yourself into situations where your weapon layout will shine. This is like, basic stuff. Every weapon in the game, if used correctly, can be a great addition to your arsenal - not to mention meta knowledge.

I gave up using LPLs after they did nothing against targets heavier than 40 tons. They are a waste. I have experience. You're either lying or a troll. In either case, go eat more crumpets.

[Soy]

Wait.

How am I trolling or lying if I just linked a video where I derp around casually with just 2 LPLs and still get kills left and right? With an awful specced mech?

Wheres the lie?

Why did I tear apart heavies in that clip then if it sucks against mechs above 40t?

Edited by Soy, 05 January 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[BerryChunks]

Fine. I watched your "video" It took you a minute to kill someone that was piloting worse than a ******** monkey, and also taking hits from your teammates.

Kill vulturing against noobs who cant play and who is isolated against you +2 other team mates is not a valid proof.

It even took you over 1 minute to kill him, considering all that. On the other hand, a mech with 4-6 medium lasers could've finished that person off in about 20 seconds.

Your video is a terrible example of "LPL viability". You get to wait off the extreme excess heat by hiding behind buildings, at which point any weapon setup would be viable.

You are a terrible thinker. Please get out.

[Soy]

Terrible Phract died to a total of 6 LPLs to the back.

That's not difficult to land with any mech using them to be honest.

If you aren't waiting off heat what are you doing? Overheating? Disciplined heat control combined with run n gun tactics are the best way to sustain damage output with a hot striker mech...

If it took a minute to kill him he clearly wasn't that bad of a pilot, he was guarding his rear until another guy got his attention then he died immediately. We were alone entire fight until someone looked at him, he turned, then I got the rear look and he died. 6 shots total is all you have to land on 70t with LPL? That's nothing man, think about it.

Point is that Phract died to a total of 6 LPLs. Against a Jenner going 2/3 of its usual speed. 6 LPLs = cored out 70tonner.

You had just stated LPLs suck against heavies. I killed a Dragon about 30 secs after the Phract with just 4 LPL hits on his torso.

Thats a total of 130tons dead in 10 LPL shots.

What are you talking about again? Sucking with LPLs? Oh, right on.

Edited by Soy, 05 January 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[JohnnyC]

Am I understanding this correctly that the ERPPC does not have a minimum range like the standard PPC?

[shintakie]

JohnnyC, on 05 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Am I understanding this correctly that the ERPPC does not have a minimum range like the standard PPC?

You are correct. Why you ask? Magic.

[De La Fresniere]

BerryChunks, on 05 January 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

lol. I don't know about you, but its really easy to close to the 100% power 270m range of medium lasers. I've shot people all day long with two large lasers (the amount you need to keep firing constantly without overheating), and it's worthless. On the other hand, you can just get 4-6 medium lasers and have more damage and less heat, because that hardpoint system allows you to really pack them on.

Leaving cover is not that easy. Seriously, half of matches is people staying very far away from each other and the first one foolish enough to pop his head out being obliterated in ten seconds...

Yes, I love MLs too. I'd probably use 8 MLs instead of 4LLs if I could (less range but 4 more damage and, more importantly, *12 free tons!*), but not every mech is a Swayback... I only have 4 energy hardpoints. Luckily, LLs have the same damage-per-heat ratio as MLs (actually I think the LLs are a tiny bit better), so heat does not prevent me from dealing as much damage as a ML user. Being heat-neutral is not very good anyway; being able to do 18 damage all day long is much, much less advantageous than being able to do 36 damage four times in a row (disabling or killing your opponent in 15 seconds) and then voluntarily lowering yourself to 18 per cycle or however much heat allows, with movement/cover breaks allowing you to 4x36 burst again.

LPLs are crap, but LLs are good. Heavy, but good.

[JohnnyC]

shintakie, on 05 January 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

You are correct. Why you ask? Magic.

Hah! Well... I would suspect that the "Extended Range" is taken to be mean extended on the low end as well as the high. Hopefully they get their heat/damage balance adjusted soon since those seem to generate an excessive amount of heat.

[shintakie]

JohnnyC, on 05 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Hah! Well... I would suspect that the "Extended Range" is taken to be mean extended on the low end as well as the high. Hopefully they get their heat/damage balance adjusted soon since those seem to generate an excessive amount of heat.

Eh, its all space mumbo jumbo anyway.

PGI added the minimum range to PPCs because its in the TT version that the PPC has a minimum range and "made sense" while many others with minimum ranges like Gauss and the AC/2 didn't get it because it didn't make sense to have. Its a dumb reason anyway because the reason PPCs in lore have a minimum range is because of a thing called a field inhibitor that keeps you from damagin your own mech. Fun fact, the ERPPC doesn't have this device yet does not even attempt to explain why firin it within the PPC's minimum range doesn't blow your own mech up.

Like I said. Magic.

[BerryChunks]

Soy, on 05 January 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Terrible Phract died to a total of 6 LPLs to the back.

That's not difficult to land with any mech using them to be honest.

If you aren't waiting off heat what are you doing? Overheating? Disciplined heat control combined with run n gun tactics are the best way to sustain damage output with a hot striker mech...

If it took a minute to kill him he clearly wasn't that bad of a pilot, he was guarding his rear until another guy got his attention then he died immediately. We were alone entire fight until someone looked at him, he turned, then I got the rear look and he died. 6 shots total is all you have to land on 70t with LPL? That's nothing man, think about it.

Point is that Phract died to a total of 6 LPLs. Against a Jenner going 2/3 of its usual speed. 6 LPLs = cored out 70tonner.

You had just stated LPLs suck against heavies. I killed a Dragon about 30 secs after the Phract with just 4 LPL hits on his torso.

Thats a total of 130tons dead in 10 LPL shots.

What are you talking about again? Sucking with LPLs? Oh, right on.

you're not proving:

A.That it is only you doing the damage.
B. That LPLs are any good in a "stand and deliver" scenario between enemies and a mech that is too slow to run and hide to burn of heat.

I just ran a 5 MPL build and couldnt fire them continuously and kill other heavies. 5 MPLs are much more heat and damage/tonnage efficient than LPLs. This was dont with 31 heat sinks btw.

The moment you have to start laying off the trigger to bring your heat back down, you've taken the wrong weapon, because others are alpha'ing with SRMs and PPCs to pull off instant kills, while you're sitting there tossing one off waiting for heat to wear down so you can fire again.

You can avoid it and say "130 tons destroyed by LPL!!!!" all you like. I'm sure I could destroy 1000 tons with LPL if they were all afk. You Got LPL kills by hiding behind cover so you didnt get shot while you wore off heat, while the enemy was being distracted by your team mates, who are very likely shooting him while you're hiding.

Tell me, how does intellectual dishonesty feel?

Edited by BerryChunks, 05 January 2013 - 11:57 AM.

[De La Fresniere]

Soy, on 05 January 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

What are you talking about again? Sucking with LPLs? Oh, right on.

He's right though, LPLs do suck... relatively speaking.

They're not useless. You can kill people with them, sometimes quite easily. That's irrelevant.

It's a *comparison*. With a well-placed stab, you *can* kill someone with a fork. You could become some sort of serial fork murderer if you were really smart about it (at least, as smart as one can be, deciding to become a fork-using serial killer...). Doesn't mean it wouldn't have been easier with an assault rifle. When comparing forks and assault rifles...

Forks suck.

Do your fellow soldiers are service, don't go into battle armed with forks.

[Soy]

Berry - I can't tell if you're blind or trolling, but if you actually watch the video you can tell with certainty regarding point A.

I don't think LPL is particularly powerful for just standing around and firing. It's the best light swatter in the game for an arm hardpoint if you only have 1 energy there and the tonnage, nothing else comes close.

Yes, MPLs are more heat and damage efficient than LPLs. Doesn't mean they are better. Just there you completely disregarded the larger crit seek, the longer range, the higher burst damage. But if you want to form arguments around half of an opinion, go ahead nobody is stopping you.

You can destroy lots of mechs with any weapon. The irony is you already touched on your point a couple posts ago when you said essentially 4-6 MLs would have done the job quicker and more efficiently. Duh? I'm using a slow Jenner with just dual LPLs. It's like the opposite of a min/maxed mech. Yet it still wrecks face. Why is that? Can you explain it beyond "oh yeah just so happens that you were playing against ******* oh and I doubt you did all that damage even though it's clearly obvious where the damage comes from in this vid".

What is so dishonest about me linking a video that shows LPLs bossing out even on a mech purposely built to suck? I can't tell if you're blind, a true newb, a forum warrior, or a fail combo of all 3 at this point.

Easily the most amusing aspect of this discussion is how you dismiss the LPL because you suck at using it. I suck at using AC/20. I think I'll just go around bashing the AC/20 since I suck at using it like you do about the LPL. Stop being close minded, try the weapon out in different scenarios, you might find a way that works for you, or maybe you'll find that you just can't get the weapon to work well for you as others. That's gaming, not everybody can do the same things. Diversity... an old wooden ship used in the [Amaris] Civil War.

PS - Anyways about an hour ago I popped back in this thread just to simply remind people that all weapons in this game have a purpose and can be used effectively. Flash forward and I'm arguing with a guy calling me a liar after I link a video giving evidence on how said 'bad' weapon can be used effectively, even on an awfully inefficient mech. Stop sucking Berry, I don't know what else to say.

Edited by Soy, 05 January 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[SpiralRazor]

HC Harlequin, on 05 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Ya. you completely missed the point.
If you only have one shot. One shot to win or lose.. at 90 meters range against a moving mech. You would STILL not take the LPL? Even though it's more damage. more crit chance, more consistant damage and overall much better than either of the other LL? Especially knowing how badly the other two lasers work against fast moving mechs?

Okay, i get your Idea just fine.


Heres where I think you are going wrong though:


A) Your hypothetical situation does not come up that often for me. My damage is dealt via more consistent means...I cant ever remember being in that particular spot...but if i were, yes, I would choose the weapon that puts the most damage on one location, the EPPC/LPL.

B- I have zero problems using regular lasers against fast moving mechs. I have a Stalker F that uses 6 medium lasers as its energy loadout.. Many times i will get a raven/jenner on my thinking that im slow and will likely have problems targeting....In nearly ever case i can think of, those small fast mechs have backed off quickly after I get them to red in about the same time they have me to orange.

As an example, i have a 5S that uses six Large...Dropped yesterday with two teammates using Atlas's. Opposing team had 3 Raven Ls that decided to swarm our Atlas around D5-E5 on the Ice city map. I was at about 450-500 meters, unmolested, with a clear view of the 2 Atlai and the Ravens swarming around there feet. Very carefully so as to not hit my own teammates, i watched the pattern of there circle strafing and with more careful use of 2 large lasers at a time(2 groups of lasers, chain fire) I was able to leg 2 out of the 3 Ravens. The last ran off.

[BerryChunks]

Soy, on 05 January 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Berry - I can't tell if you're blind or trolling, but if you actually watch the video you can tell with certainty regarding point A.

I don't think LPL is particularly powerful for just standing around and firing. It's the best light swatter in the game for an arm hardpoint if you only have 1 energy there and the tonnage, nothing else comes close.

Yes, MPLs are more heat and damage efficient than LPLs. Doesn't mean they are better. Just there you completely disregarded the larger crit seek, the longer range, the higher burst damage. But if you want to form arguments around half of an opinion, go ahead nobody is stopping you.

You can destroy lots of mechs with any weapon. The irony is you already touched on your point a couple posts ago when you said essentially 4-6 MLs would have done the job quicker and more efficiently. Duh? I'm using a slow Jenner with just dual LPLs. It's like the opposite of a min/maxed mech. Yet it still wrecks face. Why is that? Can you explain it beyond "oh yeah just so happens that you were playing against ******* oh and I doubt you did all that damage even though it's clearly obvious where the damage comes from in this vid".

What is so dishonest about me linking a video that shows LPLs bossing out even on a mech purposely built to suck? I can't tell if you're blind, a true newb, a forum warrior, or a fail combo of all 3 at this point.

Easily the most amusing aspect of this discussion is how you dismiss the LPL because you suck at using it. I suck at using AC/20. I think I'll just go around bashing the AC/20 since I suck at using it like you do about the LPL. Stop being close minded, try the weapon out in different scenarios, you might find a way that works for you, or maybe you'll find that you just can't get the weapon to work well for you as others. That's gaming, not everybody can do the same things. Diversity... an old wooden ship used in the [Amaris] Civil War.

PS - Anyways about an hour ago I popped back in this thread just to simply remind people that all weapons in this game have a purpose and can be used effectively. Flash forward and I'm arguing with a guy calling me a liar after I link a video giving evidence on how said 'bad' weapon can be used effectively, even on an awfully inefficient mech. Stop sucking Berry, I don't know what else to say.

a single small laser can kill a mech, if you have all day and speed and a lag shield and cover to hide behind vs a large heavy slow moving mech.

That doesn't make it as good as an alphra strike of mass SRMs or PPCs, or medium non-pulse lasers.

You call it "effective", but you haven't qualified what that means. If that means "killing a mech", then a MG is "effective". If we're going to get serious and say "doing X damage/time", then no, LPLs are not effective compared to MLs.

Because of your clear lack of ability to reason, I'm pretty sure I'm getting trolled.\

There's a few facts here about the video this clown linked:.

The enemy never fired back.
The enemy always left his back turned allowing more shots to his back.
The enemy was dealing with his teammates.
The person with LPLs was behind cover while "reloading" heat.

Edited by BerryChunks, 05 January 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[Soy]

BerryChunks, on 05 January 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

That doesn't make it as good as an alphra strike of mass SRMs or PPCs, or medium non-pulse lasers.

I never said it was.

I cannot believe this forum warrior is trying to bait me into a semantical argument about efficiency of a weapon nearly a page after I linked a video discrediting his stated belief that said weapon in question sucks.

Instead of theorycrafting min/max builds why don't you try actually, you know, playing the game.

PS - Stop liking your own posts, it's disturbing.

PPS - You said the guy never fired back in the vid? Seriously? Wow, you are officially a blind *****. I'm done discussing this with you, fail more in game for all I care. Good luck with limiting your playing experiences to 1 or 2 weapons kid.

Edited by Soy, 05 January 2013 - 12:16 PM.

[BerryChunks]

Explain why the weapon is good.