209 replies to this topic

[Buckminster]

SpiralRazor, on 03 January 2013 - 11:24 PM, said:

And the LPL and ERPPC...are just terrible bad.

You are forgetting one point about the ERPPC...

King Arthur IV, on 04 January 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

your not joking about this??? thats soooo sad!! so at 900 range and full duration, i only do 1 damage??? WTF!!!!!!

And this right here is that point. Aside from no minimum, it does full damage to a much greater range. So when you are doing maybe 1 damage at 800 meters with a LL, I'm still doing a full 10.

[Pr8Dator]

you guys are making weapons comparison in such one sided or vacuumed comparison that it makes me laugh reading this thread... LOL!

So, PPC proponents, does this mean you don't have a single mech armed with any LLs at all?

LL proponents, does this mean you don't have a single mech armed with any PPCs or LPLs at all?

[Buckminster]

As the die hard PPC guy, no. I don't have any LL or LPL.

I have 4 mechs in my bay:

Cat C1 with 2 ALRM15s and 4 MLs
Cat K2 with 2 ERPPCs and 2 ML
Cat A1 with 3 ASRM6 and 3 SSRM2
Raven 3L with 2 PPCs

My play style and skill set leans towards immediate damage weapons. I'm just not that great with keeping my laser on target - especially against faster mechs, but I can do a reasonable job of leading and hitting a target with ballistic-style weapons.

[Trauglodyte]

I don't use Lrg Lasers out of spite. They're supposed to be 8 dmg/8 heat and not this 9/7 crap that we have going on right now. Its one of the reasons, along with the isntant damage and damage save component of lasers, that prevents me from using it. I'd rather pair a PPC with Mediums or Smalls. As for the Large Pulse Laser, if I'm going to spend the 7 tons on a weapon, it is going to be something that can reach out and touch someone. While I might lose some damage close in versus light mechs, I'll take the drop off for the long range support.

[Dakkath]

I love the ER PPC's I can fire them pretty much at any range and cause disruption.

I do not like the LPL; and the regular PPC has the minimum range issue.

[HC Harlequin]

Bump because I care

[Pr8Dator]

Fooled around with a 5 PPC Cataphract build and found it incredibly fun to play! LOL! Easy kills but easy heat suicide as well.


So now, I actually have a 3 Large Pulse Laser Fang, 4 Large Laser Flame, 5 PPC Cataphract and I love them all and they all OWN. So, in conclusion, I would say all three weapons are great!

[SpiralRazor]

LPL is terribly Bad....thats not arguable...and Its not a in a vacuum. Ive used all of these weapons 100s and 100s of times.

LPL has a crap stat line, and that is all. Too much tonnage for too little range and way much heat per damage.


ERPPC is only good if you have maybe 1 of them...they are NO good in massed fire. They require cooling levels that are outside of what the Devs allow to be viable right now.

Flamers and small pulse lasers have no function right now.

And no, if i only have 1 Hardpoint its NOT going to be a PULSE weapon....It will be LL, ERL, or PPC, and thats that.

9/10, unless im building a tunnel fighter/building camper(city) im going to go MLas over MPlas. At an average ping of 33-35, i have no problems holding it on target for that extra .25 second of a duration.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 05 January 2013 - 10:13 AM.

[jakucha]

When they adjust the LPL to make it more useful I'll probably start using it. They mentioned they would, hopefully in the next patch.

[SpiralRazor]

Buckminster, on 04 January 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

You are forgetting one point about the ERPPC...



And this right here is that point. Aside from no minimum, it does full damage to a much greater range. So when you are doing maybe 1 damage at 800 meters with a LL, I'm still doing a full 10.

Yeah, i get you bro...but after many, many games ive come to the realization that the number of times im going to be able and sit and fire that ERPPC at the optimal range for it unmolested is very,very low compared to how many times im going to be fighting at the optimal range of the Large Laser.(which i can move and fire with as im not aiming at blue dots on the horizon)

Personally, i consider optimal range for it to be around 600. 7 damage for 7 heat or thereabouts.

[HC Harlequin]

SpiralRazor, on 05 January 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

LPL is terribly Bad....thats not arguable...and Its not a in a vacuum. Ive used all of these weapons 100s and 100s of times.

LPL has a crap stat line, and that is all. Too much tonnage for too little range and way much heat per damage.


ERPPC is only good if you have maybe 1 of them...they are NO good in massed fire. They require cooling levels that are outside of what the Devs allow to be viable right now.

Flamers and small pulse lasers have no function right now.

And no, if i only have 1 Hardpoint its NOT going to be a PULSE weapon....It will be LL, ERL, or PPC, and thats that.

9/10, unless im building a tunnel fighter/building camper(city) im going to go MLas over MPlas. At an average ping of 33-35, i have no problems holding it on target for that extra .25 second of a duration.

Ya. you completely missed the point.
If you only have one shot. One shot to win or lose.. at 90 meters range against a moving mech. You would STILL not take the LPL? Even though it's more damage. more crit chance, more consistant damage and overall much better than either of the other LL? Especially knowing how badly the other two lasers work against fast moving mechs?

[De La Fresniere]

Large Lasers are heavy, especially when compared to the ML, but overall pretty damn nice. Accurate, fairly long range, decent damage-per-heat. I'd consider reducing their weight by 1 ton, but they're in a relatively good place right now. I use them.

(ER)PPCs can be good if boated on a large mech and fired together (doing high damage to a single section is great). While the heat they generate is an effective way to limit their use, their weight and general wastefulness when used in small numbers make them terrible for smaller mechs. Ideally I guess they should keep their heat generation but weigh a *lot* less. I don't use them, but I don't judge those who do.

LPLs are just plain ridiculous. Very heavy, absurd heat, barely more range than even ordinary MLs. I can't imagine why anyone would want to use them over LLs; no mech has that much weight to waste or that much heat dissipation, and no one can justify losing 150m of range. Not for a tiny little bit more damage, of which you'd have dealt much, much more with superior range and by being able to fire more often (less heat). I don't use them... and I judge those who do.

[De La Fresniere]

HC Harlequin, on 05 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Ya. you completely missed the point.
If you only have one shot. One shot to win or lose.. at 90 meters range against a moving mech. You would STILL not take the LPL? Even though it's more damage. more crit chance, more consistant damage and overall much better than either of the other LL? Especially knowing how badly the other two lasers work against fast moving mechs?

That situation you're describing? Because I used LLs, that opponent is already dead. I was able to start damaging it earlier because of my superior range, and I was able to damage it more during the fight because I could fire my weapons more often (less heat generation), or because, again being able to fire my weapons more often, I finished that annoying Commando more quickly and was able to get started on that mech sooner.

You can't change weapons during a match. When you equip a weapon, you're gonna be using it for the entire match, so you take the one that's just plain better, not one that might be better in some super specific situation.

I don't care that your +10 Ring of Protection Against One-Legged Albino Minotaurs is better against one-legged albino minotaurs. I'll equip my +9 Ring of Protection Against Everything and, if I do meet a one-legged albino minautaur, I'll be able to kill it because I won't have been messed up by, you know, *everything else*.

[BerryChunks]

Large pulse lasers are terrible because the "heat" of the game compared to the Armor (they doubled armor from TT values) and the needed amounts of punch through on a single spot make PPCs, mass SRM6, and AC/20's far better options than weapons which can be foiled, such as lasers, which you have to hold on target to get full damage on a single point.

It seems as though weapons fire too fast for the heat values from TT, but then they double armor to make fights last a little longer, and this obfuscates some of the very real issues going on with being able to mass weapons of a specific type becuse of the modularity of hardpoints, because if you keep tweaking heat values to limit people using mass weapons, but then they just find ways around it, and you've really harmed the people trying to use those higher heat smaller selection of weapons that aren't PPCs really get screwed.

take PPC over large lasers, especially pulse lasers. Or take mass medium lasers over Large lasers or pulse lasers. It's just good judgement if you don't wanna get repeatedly ***** in game.

[BerryChunks]

De La Fresniere, on 05 January 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

That situation you're describing? Because I used LLs, that opponent is already dead. I was able to start damaging it earlier because of my superior range, and I was able to damage it more during the fight because I could fire my weapons more often (less heat generation), or because, again being able to fire my weapons more often, I finished that annoying Commando more quickly and was able to get started on that mech sooner.

You can't change weapons during a match. When you equip a weapon, you're gonna be using it for the entire match, so you take the one that's just plain better, not one that might be better in some super specific situation.

I don't care that your +10 Ring of Protection Against One-Legged Albino Minotaurs is better against one-legged albino minotaurs. I'll equip my +9 Ring of Protection Against Everything and, if I do meet a one-legged albino minautaur, I'll be able to kill it because I won't have been messed up by, you know, *everything else*.

lol. I don't know about you, but its really easy to close to the 100% power 270m range of medium lasers. I've shot people all day long with two large lasers (the amount you need to keep firing constantly without overheating), and it's worthless. On the other hand, you can just get 4-6 medium lasers and have more damage and less heat, because that hardpoint system allows you to really pack them on.

[BerryChunks]

Trauglodyte, on 04 January 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

I don't use Lrg Lasers out of spite. They're supposed to be 8 dmg/8 heat and not this 9/7 crap that we have going on right now. Its one of the reasons, along with the isntant damage and damage save component of lasers, that prevents me from using it. I'd rather pair a PPC with Mediums or Smalls. As for the Large Pulse Laser, if I'm going to spend the 7 tons on a weapon, it is going to be something that can reach out and touch someone. While I might lose some damage close in versus light mechs, I'll take the drop off for the long range support.

I dont know why people are so hard for "long range support". Most maps have areas within 300m, and the maps that have large spaces of clear path have ways to get around or avoid those areas without being "sniped".

I've tried every weapon system. PPC is above and beyond large lasers, large ER, and large pulse, precisely because of the double armor/small target/damage spread of lasers issues.

Edited by BerryChunks, 05 January 2013 - 10:46 AM.

[BerryChunks]

HC Harlequin, on 05 January 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

Ya. you completely missed the point.
If you only have one shot. One shot to win or lose.. at 90 meters range against a moving mech. You would STILL not take the LPL? Even though it's more damage. more crit chance, more consistant damage and overall much better than either of the other LL? Especially knowing how badly the other two lasers work against fast moving mechs?

that more crit chance might be meaningful if regular lasers did damage the instant you pulled the trigger, while LPLs did DoT when you pulled the trigger, you know, like pulses of damage?

GO

http://mwomercs.com/...-melt-properly/

All lasers deal damage over time, which means an LL has the same repeated chances to "Crit" as an LPL, at just slightly more time between damage application.

[Soy]

Lol, just lol.

I'm at the point regarding this particular thread where I have hit the wall, so to speak - just learn how to use the different weapons in this game, if you don't feel like it, great. I am god awful with ballistics myself. But to talk about the LPL as "garbage" in a serious way? No, just learn to play.

[BerryChunks]

jakucha, on 05 January 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

When they adjust the LPL to make it more useful I'll probably start using it. They mentioned they would, hopefully in the next patch.

Anything they do to individual weapons is just gonna screw things up more. they need to undo a lot of their missteps they've taken and start over. Armor vs weapon damage vs heat was the design of the game, but they doubled armor when "doubling" firing speed, even though it doesn't double Damage Per Shot, which means that weapons of less damage and more heat are far less effective to use. Weapons of more damage and less heat, especially when massable, are even better. See: medium laser.

Soy, on 05 January 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

Lol, just lol.

I'm at the point regarding this particular thread where I have hit the wall, so to speak - just learn how to use the different weapons in this game, if you don't feel like it, great. I am god awful with ballistics myself. But to talk about the LPL as "garbage" in a serious way? No, just learn to play.

Use them. Track how many kills you have per day, or how fast you get killed in comparison to how fast you damage anyone. Then come back and tell us. I can tell you haven't used them and you're talking out your ***.

Kaijin, on 01 January 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

It's canon for the PPC to have a minimum range and for the ERPPC to have no minimum. You will find though that the Devs pick and choose when they will use canon and when they prefer not to. Example: The Gauss Rifle has a minimum range by canon, but not in MWO.

http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Gauss_Rifle

http://www.sarna.net is your friend

Yep. They don't have objectivity because they are wanking it out over their preferred weapon.

[BerryChunks]

HC Harlequin, on 03 January 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Every pulse has the chance to cause a crit. and if you stack it into a loc with a lot of other things then there is a lower chance to be critted out because it has a lower "frontage"


Normal lasers you have to hold on target for a certain amount of time before it starts doing damage. a pulse does all of it's damage to the mech as long as you have the pulse on the mech.


but you only have one chance to crit, unlike a pulse or even a normal laser


Pulses will always be better than their counterpart. That's the point of them.

please go look at the damage value charts for lasers in the guide section.

All lasers Do damage based on a specific time value, over the time they fire. You can do half damage with pulse lasers by pulling it away halfway through the firing cycle, as you can with large lasers, by pulling them away.

Pulse lasers get to their max damage Sooner, but they still behave just like large lasers in having "steps" of damage.

For example, supposing these were proper values for the large pulse laser.

Millisecond 3: 2 damage. Millisecond 6: 4 damage. Millisecond 9: 6 damage.

large laser has longer milliseconds between the next bump in damage, but it still behaves the same. Go read the article.